Deep State Unraveling

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 hour ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

I honestly think they will get laughed out of office as part of the mix.

But let's not forget the damage an inept blockhead flying an airplane can do.

I have no worries that Twitter will take this one down. The Twitter folks think this is a good thing. So it will stay up as long as they do.

Michael

[Ellen Stuttle]

7 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

But let's not forget the damage an inept blockhead flying an airplane can do.

And...

"Hi-ho, hi-ho, it’s back to [war] we go...."

Just Like the Good Old Days: Joe Biden Invades Syria with Convoy of US Troops and Choppers on First Full Day as President

link

Ellen

[Peter]

2 hours ago, Ellen Stuttle said:

And...

"Hi-ho, hi-ho, it’s back to [war] we go...."

Ah, the medias initial crowing went, At Last!. He has returned us to “normalcy.” But what has Biden done since being inaugurated? How many of these items will freedom loving patriots be against?  

Biden had the first White House press briefing led by Press Secretary Jen Psaki. I suggest turning the sound off and just looking at her. Peter

From “Independent”. Rejoined the World Health Organization and announced Dr. Anthony Fauci would serve as the head of the US delegation. Created a new presidential appointee role, the COVID-19 Response Coordinator to assist with national vaccine distribution efforts. Announced new executive orders to expand Covid-19 testing. Proposed new Covid-19 national strategy. Implemented White House Covid-19 precautions including mask wearing, frequent testing and new social distancing measures. Launched the “100 Days Mask Challenge,” including an executive order mandating mask wearing on federal grounds and encouraging Americans to wear masks for 100 days.

Ended the previous administration’s travel restrictions on several Muslim majority countries. Reversed components of immigration enforcement expansion under previous administration via executive order. Halted the construction of new border security installations along the US-Mexico border. Ordered the inclusion of non-US citizens in the Census. Extended work authorizations and deportation deferrals for select immigrants until at least June 2022.

Extended the nationwide eviction and foreclosure moratorium until at least the end of March. Strengthened the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program via executive order. Rescinded the 1776 Commission, created under the Trump administration to help reshape how public schools teach the history of slavery. Paused student loans payments and the accruing of interest on all federal student loans until at least the end of September.

Ordered a regulatory review at the Office of Management and Budget to undo the previous administration’s regulatory approval process. Announced new executive orders for school and business reopening plans. Implemented new ethics pledges for executive branch employees. Signed executive order preventing workplace discrimination based on gender identity or sexual orientation.

Prepared plans to overturn key Trump administration abortion policy restricting funding for overseas abortion providers. Ended the Trump administration’s Migrant Protection Protocols Policy, otherwise known as the Remain in Mexico policy. Sent a comprehensive immigration bill to Congress to further undo the previous administration’s legacy

Added gender-neutral pronoun options to the online White House contact form

Established interagency group on societal impact of carbon pollution. Asked Environmental Protection Agency to immediately reconsider methane regulations

Designated Domestic Policy Council Susan Rice to spearhead “robust, interagency” effort towards “rooting out systemic racism” in federal agencies. Announced intention to revoke transgender military ban.

Cancelled permits for the Keystone XL oil pipeline. Placed a moratorium on oil and gas leasing in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge

Rejoined the Paris Climate Accord via executive order.

[ThatGuy]

On 1/17/2021 at 8:07 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Ellen,

I am going to give you a downturn for the worse. I expect another plot twist, though, since we are living in a gigantic epic story. And what's a good story without up and down plot twists?  

Throughout the day, I read and watch a lot of people and I think my criteria are clear about the balanced approach I take with them. So please keep that balance in mind with the following.

One of the people I like is Mike Adams. I don't speak to the military sources he speaks to, but I do see the respect he has among many of the military types online, and among people I personally admire and trust. Also, he has built many successful online enterprises, the biggest being Natural News and the Brighteon video platform.

He released a downer video yesterday:

Situation Update, Jan. 16th, 2021 - Psyop revealed, DC prepares for large-scale WAR.

I know you can't watch much video, so here are some written notes and comments he likes to do for his important videos: Situation Update, Jan. 16th, 2021 – “Operation Trust” psyop revealed, DC prepares for large-scale WAR.

There's more, too. And he gets more optimistic as he goes along.

Mike was on interviewed by Alex Jones yesterday.

Emergency Saturday Broadcast! Deep State Terror Attacks Imminent/Sleeper Cells Activated

I watched both videos in their entirety. Mike's video was 1:13 (that is about one hour and a quarter) and Alex's video was about two and a half hours.

One theme of both is that there are some major Q and QAnon personalities who are members of the Deep State and are part of setting up Q as a psyop to get Q followers to overreact with violence in public. That way they can paint all Trump supporters as unhinged and have the government crack down on them.

(But Mike and Alex exclude Lin Wood, Sidney Powell and others from this. They make a point to say they are good guys.)

But that's what the attack on the Capitol was about. According to both Alex and Mike, that plan is involved somehow with the military escalation in DC, although both believe there is a lot more involved in that escalation than just framing Trump supporters.

Now, it appears there will be "Patriot protests" at all 50 state capitols across the USA. But after being stung by the setup at the Capital in DC, very few Patriots will go. Both Mike and Alex and urging people to stay home. And it appears like some people in the FBI have been actually trying to recruit Patriots to go so they can bust them.

One of the Deep State Q people Alex identified, but Mike doesn't want to, is Steve Pieczenik. Mike said he found the CIA credentials of a famous Q personality, but Alex went right out and trashed Pieczenik, calling him O'Brien in Orwell's 1984.  

There is no doubt that a setup did take place on Jan. 6. Alex Jones was there doing his bombastic thing with a bullhorn, but as he got closer to the Capitol, he saw they were going in and damaging it. So he set himself up on an elevation of some kind and started blasting out to everyone to be peaceful, to not go into the Capitol, and on so forth. And he stayed doing this for a long time..

Still, the next day, an article came out in the WSJ saying that Alex Jones was leading the charge to invade the Capitol with half-crazed racist Trump followers. Obviously the article was written in advance. According to Alex, they have since taken it down and issued a retraction in face of the video evidence.

I want to go deeper into Q being a psyop, but I'm tired right now. Maybe later.

 

However, I do have some extra thoughts

There are a lot of people suddenly demonizing Q and QAnon right now, from Jack Dorsey saying Twitter will purge QAnon and related tweets from the platform to Alex coming down hard on it being a psyop to the idiot anti-Trump Republicans saying Q is destroying the Republican party. And on and on.

That's just a little too convenient. When shit goes wrong, it is very easy to single out one thing as a scapegoat and blame it all on that scapegoat. This is what I believe is happening with people on all sides right now.

I agree there is a cult element to one faction of Q. And, according to Mike and Alex (and others I have read), the cult-allure elements are being enhanced by artificial intelligence. I can see it, but I don't believe this is widespread. I mean, if true, the cult cuts both ways. People who are fanatical against Q are also in a cult. And I don't see counterintelligence creeps deploying AI for that.

But mostly, there are many factions of Q, running from con artists, to curious people to all kinds. 

Also, no matter how evil some people say Q is, I think Q did a lot of good bringing pedophilia among the elites to the forefront in the culture, at least enough to take down Jeffrey Epstein and rescue countless kids.

If Q and QAnon are like Operation Trust of the 1920's (a false resistance operation staged by the GNU in Soviet Russia to flush out remaining monarchists and anti-Bolshevicks) as both Mike and Alex agree, how in hell does taking down elitist pedophiles factor in? Transposed, it's the elitist pedophiles or other elitists who are blackmailing elitist pedophiles who would be running the fake resistance. They would be taking themselves down.

This leads me to think a fake resistance psyop is not all there is to Q, but there are enough organized people--really evil people--using Q in that manner who are trying to break the morale of Trump supporters with false flag operations.

I want to write more about this, but later. I do believe the simultaneous attacks on the Capitols around the country will fizzle as false flag operations, though. The people staging this crap do not understand Trump supporters and I think they never will.

I also think there will be a reckoning and it will not be pretty for them. And it won't be gun-totin' Bible-thumpin' rednecks shooting up the place, either.

It will be about 100,000,000 non-compliant citizens at the start and will grow from there. And once they get back the federal government (if they lose it), they will opt for justice rather than mercy in uncovering and punishing the wrongdoing.

Michael

Here's a counter-argument to the "Operation Trust"  psy-op theory, published 1/21/21. 

"No, Q and “Trust The Plan” is Nothing Like OPERATION TRUST, It’s not a Pacification PSYOP and Here’s Why."

https://stillnessinthestorm.com/2021/01/no-q-and-trust-the-plan-is-nothing-like-operation-trust-its-not-a-pacification-psyop-and-heres-why/

Make of this what you will. I'm sure that good ol' fashion Objectivist epistemology can chew some things up nicely, or Occam's razor can slice-and-dice. (There's no "smoking gun" here, mostly counter-inferences to the opposition's inferences). Whatever the truth behind whatever Q is in actuality (damned if I know), I do think it's funny that this theory about the similarities is only getting heavy discussion out there now, when I did see it mentioned some months ago in passing. Funny because I'd have thought it would be discussed MORE back when the media was asking Trump about Q back then, while it was on everyone's lips.

Whatever it is, there is an important aspect Objectivists should consider. While this is partly presented as a "devil's advocate"  rebuttal to the claim of the psy-op, one of the conclusions of the rebuttal caught my as having relevance to Ayn Rand's suggestions on how to fight for a culture in this kind of enviroment, today, and the implications for her ideas.

For the TL-DR (or "don't care") crowd, here's snippets of the points-counterpoints:

 

Quote

 

There are a few outlets and influencers that claim Q was a psy-op pushed by the deep state to get the names of patriots on a list to round-up and prosecute them. They also say that the idea of “trusting the plan” was designed to pacify true patriots who are sick of cabal corruption.

To support this belief, the history of Operation Trust has resurfaced:

Anatoliy Golitsyn was a Soviet KGB defector and author on the long-term deception policy of the KGB communist leadership.

In 1984, Golitsyn published the book New Lies For Old, where he warned about a long-term deception strategy of seeming retreat from hard-line Communism designed to lull the West into a false sense of security. The book also included a section that is relevant to today.

“Operation Trust” was a Bolshevik Counter-Intelligence honeypot trap to identify anti-communist patriots by having them wait for a secret military plan that didn’t exist.

The communist operation from 1921 to 1926 aimed at neutralizing the anti-communist opposition by creating the false impression that a powerful group of military leaders had organized to stop the communists’ takeover.  Then the Bolsheviks then later arrested and persecuted those involved.

Sound familiar? The people who reject the idea of a positive military force working with Trump and reawakened patriots—like you and me—suggest that “QAnon” is the same Soviet-style operation. 

 

 

The core rebuttal bullet-points:
 

Quote

 

But there’s good reason to believe that this isn’t the case.

Note: I’m going to arm you with some facts and arguments for stopping this kind of hopeless cowardice. It’s my personal belief that most of the people who push this are misguided. They haven’t taken the time to understand the huge volume of material behind Q to see that Trump is working with the military to stop the deep state. Additionally, I think there are sockpuppets and deep state shills that work their way into groups where patriots gather. They do this to sow seeds of hopelessness to de-moralize and hinder the patriotic resurgence in America and worldwide.

I want to layout an argument about why it would be illogical to believe that Operation Trust is the same as Q and Trump Patriotism. To believe this:

You’d have to believe that Trump was in on the operation, or at least a useful idiot who was supporting the agenda unwittingly.

You’d have to discount the fact that all the Q material, which revealed aspects of the deep state agenda, was all part of the deep state effort.

You’d have to accept that the Russia Hoax was part of the plan too, that the deep state knew that it wouldn’t work, and knew they would get caught, but did it anyway.

You’d have to accept that the election fraud that was anticipated by Q and helped wake up millions of Americans was also part of the plan.

You’d have to accept that all the advances made during the Trump administration, like Executive Orders that confiscated assets of human traffickers, the building of the US Mexico wall that greatly hampered human trafficking and drug trafficking, and all the preparations made over the past four years that point to a large military operation that is about to unfold to take down the deep state was all part of the nefarious plan.

You’d have to accept that the 75 million (at least) Americans that agree the election was rigged and Trump truly won are the targets. That the deep state wanted to arrest and prosecute almost half of the American population.

You’d also have to accept that all of the floundering the deep state did was part of the operation—and that they picked a total hack like Biden as their frontman on purpose.

 

It continues:

 

Quote

Yes, there is a resemblance between the Q operation and Operation Trust. These include rumors of positive military operations to take down the communist elements within the a government. But, there’s a difference between rumors and observable actions or real damage being done to the deep state agenda.

There's more, and it's too much to post it all here, but these are the questions it attempts to answer:

 

Quote

 

-“Trust the Plan” is Designed to Pacify the People and Patriots"-Q and the idea of “trusting the plan” has not pacified patriots. Here’s why.

-“But did we really do anything from sitting on our couch and hiding behind a screen?”

"This is another argument you’ve probably heard. That digital warriors are like keyboard warriors, they don’t really do anything but comment on social media and post on forums. 

"Can sharing your ideas really do anything? Yes, it can. Far more than your deep state masters would want you to believe. Why do you think they work so hard to control the narrative and censor free speech?...

"Winning hearts and minds is critical to any successful battle—especially when patriots are fighting against tyrants and authoritarian governments. 

 

That part, right there, is downright Ayn-Randian. See "What Can One Do"? from Philosophy: Who Needs It:  "If you like condensations (provided you bear in mind their full meaning), I will say: when you ask 'What can one do?'—the answer is 'SPEAK' (provided you know what you are saying)."

Is Ayn Rand a "psy-op", and Atlas Shrugged one big psy-op? Were we duped into a "Russian Operation Trust" by "The Russian Radical" by trusting the "power of ideas" to change society over time, instead of "storming the barricades", since Rand said she was not the kind of person to do that, while adding that "it's much too soon for that, anyway"? Did Objectivists wait too long while "Trusting the Plan" of the ARI? Was Francisco D'anconio just like Q, spreading false hope in Galt's plan?

(Of course not. But then, I've heard some people say, in the past, that Ayn Rand was also Illuminati-controlled opposition, or part of a Zionist conspiracy, so...and it's even been argued here by Brant Gaede that Galt is a bad role-model because of his passivity/lack of active heroism...although Rand said that it was not meant as a literal prescription, but to demonstrate a theme, and that she wasn't writing recipes for the "cookshops of the future...")

Anyway, the rebuttal's conclusion is that if Q were a psy-op, it's results are the opposite of its intention, to pacify the people:

 

Quote

The truth is that today the social climate is far more prepared to accept the truth about the corruption of the deep state and accept a better government that can be restored after the deep state is taken down. And this happened largely because people (like you who are reading these words) cared about these ideas enough to talk about them.

Again, I want to bring it back to and end on the Objectivist approach to the War of Ideas, by taking the above quote and seeing how it's worked out in the Objectivist community. Has it been enough on our end to combat the deep state? Has our social climate been "prepared to accept the truth about the deep state" enough to cause a "Great Awakening"? Was it a failure of the "power ideas", or were we simply outmatched and outnumbered? Did Objectivists get too complacent, or too attached the current system/status quo, as it was, too comfortable to risk? Were they too passive by talking ideas only? Is it too late for talk, now? What kind of action is needed? More voting at the local level (the mini-swamps)? Is it time to shrug? Civil disobedience (which Rand DID advocate, when the reasons were right)? Tax revolts? Armed resistance (since local democratic governments allow Antifa riots)?

Whether Q is a larp, a failed resistance,  or a Russian psy-op, the intent and results are relevant to the Objectivist community for the same reason as Rand touched on in WE THE LIVING, when she had freedom-fighter Kira say to deep state operative Andre: "I loathe your goals. I admire your methods."

https://stillnessinthestorm.com/2021/01/no-q-and-trust-the-plan-is-nothing-like-operation-trust-its-not-a-pacification-psyop-and-heres-why/

[ThatGuy]

One additional thought on the above:
Whatever Q is or isn't, it did have one observable effect in its wake: the exposure and collapse of the GOP. With the revelation of just how much they were part of the Deep State themselves, whether they were  simply weak, spineless cowards, "controlled opposition", or Deep State themselves, they've just alienated their entire base.

If the GOP had been working for decades as a "controlled opposition", then why would one start a psy-op that reveals the truth and exposes it? (Then again, if it's a Russian-made psy-op, it doesn't mean it's a well-made psy-op...")

And to bring it back to Objectivists, once again... Rand wrote "Conservatism: An Obiturary" back in the 60's. Was she premature in her "eulogy", or has the corpse simply been propped for decades, a la Weekend at Bernies?  I've seen people in the community disagree with Rand about conservatives in the past, arguing that Objectivists should work within the GOP to spread the right principles, counter the religious right, etc...I wonder how they are feeling about all that, right now...
 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

45 minutes ago, ThatGuy said:

For the TL-DR (or "don't care") crowd...

TG,

You probably know this, but for readers who don't, TL-DR means "too long, didn't read."

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

52 minutes ago, ThatGuy said:

Whatever the truth behind whatever Q is in actuality (damned if I know), I do think it's funny that this theory about the similarities is only getting heavy discussion out there now, when I did see it mentioned some months ago in passing. Funny because I'd have thought it would be discussed MORE back when the media was asking Trump about Q back then, while it was on everyone's lips.

TG,

Q ain't going anywhere.

 

It's like Pandora's box. Once opened, it releases all sorts of things that become part of the world and can't be put back into the box.

This "many things" is what I believe is a fundamental characteristic of Q as a persuasion device.

 

American Tabloid

To illustrate by analogy, I want to mention a perspective I recently caught in an interview between James Corbett and Prof CJ of the Dangerous History podcast. They discussed American Tabloid by James Ellroy.

(See here on James's site if you are interested. To me, this was a fascinating interview. I've already liked James for a while. After this discussion, I went to the Dangerous History podcast to look around. I fell in love with it so much, I'm going through the Woodrow Wilson series right now. Prof CJ is captivating as a history storyteller an anarchist in the libertarian molds to boot.  )

American Tabloid is a novel about the Kennedy assassination times, but not from the perspective of the key historical players. It's from the perspective of the people like the hit men who carried out the killing when their bosses ordered them to. They fixed things and served their masters, but they also had opinions about their bosses, many not favorable. Some of them had differing and colliding loyalties while some were more loyal. Often their goals collided and pitted them against each other and just as often, they created strange alliances.

The main historical people of the time, Howard Hughes, Jimmy Hoffa, John Kennedy, etc., are in the book, but as minor characters. The main characters are people in secondary historical roles. So it's a different kind of book than normal.

btw - I started the audiobook a few days ago before watching this interview, but I am going to have to start it again. What a shock if you are not prepared for it. If you want a bath in un-PC language, this is the book for you. It's on the level of modern foul-language rap songs, except the tone is noir detective.  

 

Back to Q

So what the hell does this have to do with Q?

If one wants to understand Q, everything. I've seen so many people fight over what Q is or isn't, and it's all so beside the point, I have chalked it up to irrationality. But after watching that interview, I now think many people make a perspective error.

They treat Q as if there is some kind of single hierarchy with big boss people behind it calling the shots while anyone else Q-related is an impostor. I hold that Q is a device that prompted a large cast of secondary historical people with conflicting goals like the one Ellroy concocted, people who use major historical figures as prompts to further their own goals and desires. 

Incidentally, this is exactly how history happens. We all certainly experience Q that way. We may promote or fight Q, but nobody I know knows Q or is Q. 

 

Psyop

So I think your discussion rebutting the pertinence of Operation Trust to Q is valuable. It also rebuts the "Q is one thing only" idea. 

I, myself, find the "psyop by the oligarchy to pacify patriots" line lame, but I have no doubt there are oligarchy agents working to do precisely that. I also think they are not large or effective--they are simply part of the Ellroy-like churn.

That psyop line is more blowing off steam than a counterintelligence operation by the bad guys (which, to repeat, I believe is part of the mix). It spread so quickly because many high-profile people who dealt with Q had high hopes for military action, saw their hopes dashed and had to blame someone for Biden getting sworn in. So they sounded off about it. Blaming Q was an easy way to vent.

I have a lot more to say about this, but later.

One thing we should never forget, though. The ruling class is afraid of Q. If they weren't, they wouldn't try to ban it as hard as they do. They themselves help keep Q alive.  

 

So when looking at Q or anything else, may we all use our independent minds to the best of our abilities. And fuck authoritarians wherever they may be.

Michael

[ThatGuy]

11 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

t's like Pandora's box. Once opened, it releases all sorts of things that become part of the world and can't be put back into the box.

That's an apt analogy. I've been using a similar one: "You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube..."

The only thing about the "Pandora's box" metaphor, though: philosophers have debated the issue of "hope" in that story, being one of the "evils" that didn't escape the box. If hope isn't evil, why is it in the box? Was it there as a blessing? Or, is it not "hope", but "deceptive expectation"? Dang ol' paradoxes...

Of course, these myths are subject to interpretation...how about we use this one, then: "The cat's out of the bag (or "Shroedinger's death box"). And it doesn't want back in."
 

Main article: Pandora

 

According to Hesiod, when Prometheus stole fire from heaven, Zeus, the king of the gods, took vengeance by presenting Pandora to Prometheus' brother Epimetheus. Pandora opened a jar left in her care containing sickness, death and many other unspecified evils which were then released into the world.^[4] Though she hastened to close the container, only one thing was left behind – usually translated as Hope, though it could also have the pessimistic meaning of "deceptive expectation".^[5]

From this story has grown the idiom "to open a Pandora's box", meaning to do or start something that will cause many unforeseen problems.^[6] A modern, more colloquial equivalent is "to open a can of worms".^[7]

Difficulties of interpretation

 

As with most ancient Greek words, elpis can be translated a number of ways. A number of scholars prefer the neutral translation of "expectation." Classical authors use the word elpis to mean "expectation of bad," as well as "expectation of good." Statistical analysis demonstrates that the latter sense appears five times more than the former in all of extant ancient Greek literature.^[23] Others hold the minority view that elpis should be rendered "expectation of evil" (vel sim).^[24]

The answer to the first question largely depends on the answer to the second one: should the jar be interpreted as a prison, or a pantry?^[25] The jar certainly serves as a prison for the evils that Pandora released – they only affect humanity once outside the jar. Some have argued that logic dictates, therefore, that the jar acts as a prison for elpis as well, withholding it from the human race.^[26] If elpis means expectant hope, then the myth's tone is pessimistic: All the evils in the world were scattered from Pandora's jar, while the one potentially mitigating force, hope, remains locked securely inside.^[27] A less pessimistic interpretation understands the myth to say: countless evils fled Pandora's jar and plague human existence; the hope that humanity might be able to master these evils remains imprisoned inside the jar. Life is not hopeless, but human beings are hopelessly human.^[28]

It is also argued that hope was simply one of the evils in the jar, the false kind of hope, and was no good for humanity, since, later in the poem, Hesiod writes that hope is empty (498) and no good (500) and makes humanity lazy by taking away their industriousness, making them prone to evil.^[29]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora's_box

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 hour ago, ThatGuy said:

I've seen people in the community disagree with Rand about conservatives in the past...

TG,

They almost always get the dichotomy wrong. The fundamental issue is not conservatives versus progressives. That exists, but it's not what is driving the strife.

It's elitists versus producers. This, to me, is Rand 101. And that dichotomy is found in all political parties and movements.

What about communism? Heh. Try to imagine communism existing without elitists. Nobody would take it seriously enough for it to gain and/or maintain power.

Now try to imagine freedom with only elitists. That's an ontological contradiction. Try to imagine freedom only with producers. Hell, that's the closest thing to utopia I can imagine.

Michael

[ThatGuy]

2 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

They almost always get the dichotomy wrong. The fundamental issue is not conservatives versus progressives. That exists, but it's not what is driving the strife.

It's elitists versus producers. This, to me, is Rand 101. And that dichotomy is found in all political parties and movements.

I can't argue with that.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

5 minutes ago, ThatGuy said:

... to do or start something that will cause many unforeseen problems...

TG,

Once one asks, "Unforeseen problems for whom?" the above description of Pandora's box is also an apt description of Q.

 

Michael

[ThatGuy]

Biden "Pyrrhic Victory" update:

HOT MIC: Biden Says ‘I Don’t Know What I’m Signing,’ Signs Executive Order Anyway”
“In the video, an unidentified person told Biden to "sign it anyway," so he did.”

https://nationalfile.com/hot-mic-biden-says-i-dont-know-what-im-signing-signs-executive-order-anyway/

Others have also been pointing out the documents he was signing appear to be blank pages. I don't know if that's a "smoking gun" or if those were just "ceremonial", like the giant Publisher's Clearing House checks, or the giant checks that are given to lottery winners on tv...

[ThatGuy]

5 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

TG,

Once one asks, "Unforeseen problems for whom?" the above description of Pandora's box is also an apt description of Q.

 

Michael

Just for the reader's sake of clarity, that wasn't my quote, but from the Wiki passage.

(Not saying MSK quoted me that way on purpose, just pointing it out because of the formatting [which ironically doesn't show when I quote the requote], where it says "That Guy said...")

[ThatGuy]

34 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

TG,

Once one asks, "Unforeseen problems for whom?" the above description of Pandora's box is also an apt description of Q.

 

Michael

Yeah, and that was on the back of my mind, in my response. Upon whom would that "evil" rebound? But didn't want to get too off-track from the valid point that you made, which is that the cat is out of the bag, licking up the toothpaste that can't be stuffed back into the tube.

Still, I was compelled to point out the Pandora's Box and hope connection because of the accusations of "Hopium" going around.

(But is Schroedinger's cat alive or dead? And how many of its nine lives are left? Inquiring minds want to know...)

[Ellen Stuttle]

4 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

That psyop line is more blowing off steam than a counterintelligence operation by the bad guys (which, to repeat, I believe is part of the mix). It spread so quickly because many high-profile people who dealt with Q had high hopes for military action, saw their hopes dashed and had to blame someone for Biden getting sworn in. So they sounded off about it. Blaming Q was an easy way to vent.

That’s in keeping with my not-very-informed impressions of Qist hopes.  There seemed to me to be the expectation that at any minute the key bad guys would be rounded up and sent to be executed.

However, I’m wondering about the premising of rebuttal points which TG quoted re the psy-op idea.

6 hours ago, ThatGuy said:

Here's a counter-argument to the "Operation Trust"  psy-op theory, published 1/21/21. 

"No, Q and “Trust The Plan” is Nothing Like OPERATION TRUST, It’s not a Pacification PSYOP and Here’s Why."

https://stillnessinthestorm.com/2021/01/no-q-and-trust-the-plan-is-nothing-like-operation-trust-its-not-a-pacification-psyop-and-heres-why/

I'll quote the whole section:

Quote

I want to layout an argument about why it would be illogical to believe that Operation Trust is the same as Q and Trump Patriotism. To believe this:

You’d have to believe that Trump was in on the operation, or at least a useful idiot who was supporting the agenda unwittingly.

You’d have to discount the fact that all the Q material, which revealed aspects of the deep state agenda, was all part of the deep state effort.

You’d have to accept that the Russia Hoax was part of the plan too, that the deep state knew that it wouldn’t work, and knew they would get caught, but did it anyway.

You’d have to accept that the election fraud that was anticipated by Q and helped wake up millions of Americans was also part of the plan.

You’d have to accept that all the advances made during the Trump administration, like Executive Orders that confiscated assets of human traffickers, the building of the US Mexico wall that greatly hampered human trafficking and drug trafficking, and all the preparations made over the past four years that point to a large military operation that is about to unfold to take down the deep state was all part of the nefarious plan.

You’d have to accept that the 75 million (at least) Americans that agree the election was rigged and Trump truly won are the targets. That the deep state wanted to arrest and prosecute almost half of the American population.

You’d also have to accept that all of the floundering the deep state did was part of the operation—and that they picked a total hack like Biden as their frontman on purpose.

Doesn’t the argument presume that Trump was in on Q?

But is there any solid basis for this belief?

It seems to me to be wishful thinking.

(Note: I haven’t had time to read the article yet.  Maybe an attempt is made to document Trump involvement.)

Ellen

[ThatGuy]

2 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

One thing we should never forget, though. The ruling class is afraid of Q. If they weren't, they wouldn't try to ban it as hard as they do. They themselves help keep Q alive.  

 

So when looking at Q or anything else, may we all use our independent minds to the best of our abilities. And fuck authoritarians wherever they may be.

There's that "Streisand Effect", again.

"And fuck authoritarians wherever they may be."

Amen to that.

[Ellen Stuttle]

1 hour ago, Ellen Stuttle said:

However, I’m wondering about the premising of rebuttal points which TG quoted re the psy-op idea.

Continuing re one point the rebutter makes, viz.:

"You’d also have to accept that all of the floundering the deep state did was part of the operation—and that they picked a total hack like Biden as their frontman on purpose."
 

Floundering there's been.  However, I strongly disagree with the idea that Biden is a bad choice for Deep State purposes.  I think that he’s an excellent choice - precisely because he’s simply a "frontman," a paper figure who does what he’s told to do.

And, then, before long, Kamala will succeed him, and she’s both a ruthless prosecutor and a Clintonista.

—-

Another thing, as I've challenged before, is the Q idea of One Master pulling all the strings.  Reality is, a bunch of coalitions with varying goals, sometimes working in tactical partnerships but ultimately vying with one another.

Ellen

[Ellen Stuttle]

3 hours ago, ThatGuy said:

But is Schroedinger's cat alive or dead?

"Dr. Schroedinger, we have good news or bad news about your cat."

Ellen

[ThatGuy]

From Q to this...what is with this "Corporation of WE THE PEOPLE, INCORPORATED" I keep hearing bandied about, with the gold-fringed flags, that is supposed to be some indication that the election was a setup to get rid of the Vatican/Bank of London ownership of DC and restore the Constitution?

(I've heard inklings of such things in my distant past, actually, when I first heard of the Illuminati. I think it was also in the topic of libertarians who tried to claim income taxes are illegal somehow. But I dismissed it, then, along with the David-Icke talk of the Bushes and Clintons being literal "lizard people"...

Anyway, for those not in the loop about this...

TRUMP ODE TO THE CORPORATION!

"D.C. is fenced off and  the President is never going back to the White House. But not for reasons you may be thinking.

"Fear not, there will be a new capitol built and an end to income taxes paid to the tax collectors of the Corporation that is now in the hands of a new administration. They went to all the trouble to steal a corporation whose assets are in the process of being seized.  Most did not see this coming for they did not even know their nation was a Corporation. But, it is indeed but now, no more are the states subject to it. Please read on to understand  the nature of the battle we are in."

and

"President Donald J. Trump has moved out permanently for he cannot be president over a Sovereign Nation in a Foreign land, which is what the White House and Capitol are.  President Trump was voted in by We The People. Not the Corporation."

You can read the whole thing here:

https://themarshallreport.wordpress.com/2021/01/20/trump-ode-to-the-corporation/

[Mark]

The following is by Joel Skousen on his World Affairs Brief:

"It has been a long battle trying to convince subscribers and Trump supporters that all the stories of false hope spread by “insiders” like Q about Trump staying in office after the theft of the election were bogus. In reality, Q was only a small part of the plot to lead Trump supporters astray with false hope.

"There were also former and current people in various branches of intelligence who would call up people like Generals Flynn and McInerny to feed them false information. They were so effective the good generals bought it—in part because they were naive about the depth of control held by the Deep State over the NSA and the rest of our government and military.

"Attorneys Sidney Powell and Lin Wood were also targets of disinformation, with Wood spreading some of the most bizarre rumors. Simon Parkes, an old intelligence man in the UK, developed quite a following to his daily “Online Updates” with a mixture of true facts and outrageous claims. The disinformation he gets must be coming from British Intelligence which is in league with our own Deep State, because it echoes what many have been saying in the US. It became downright absurd last Wednesday when he claimed that the Inauguration would be faked —that it would be a computer generated event using Deep Fake computer animation and that all the soldiers in DC were there to arrest all the traitors and reinstall Donald Trump as president. Of course, that never happened. Even as he was saying it, president Trump was packing up and moving out of the White House.

"What is most disturbing is that NONE of the sincere recipients of this massive disinformation campaign have come out and apologized for passing on the bogus information. None have come out to expose and decry the people who whispered these lies in their ears. How are we to learn from these campaigns to deceive if the victims of this disinformation campaign don’t have the courage to reject and expose it?"

[Ellen Stuttle]

6 hours ago, Mark said:

The following is by Joel Skousen on his World Affairs Brief:

"It has been a long battle trying to convince subscribers and Trump supporters that all the stories of false hope spread by “insiders” like Q about Trump staying in office after the theft of the election were bogus. In reality, Q was only a small part of the plot to lead Trump supporters astray with false hope.

Link to the Joel Skousen piece Mark quotes from.

—-
 

I do NOT think that Q is/was a psyop.

Although I think that the Q idea of The Plan has engendered false hope in Trump supporters, I think that the author/authors of the Q drops believed, maybe still believe, in the existence of The Plan.

On the other hand, I’m suspicious that the idea that Q is/was a psyop is itself a psyop intended to have - and having - a demoralizing effect on some Trump supporters.

I’m wondering exactly from what source(s) the Q-as-psyop idea originated.

Ellen

 

[Ellen Stuttle]

In the How About Some Good News? department:

Candace Owens Shares Photo Of Her Beautiful New Baby Boy With Husband George Farmer

The link in the article to the baby photo doesn't work.  (Likewise, the link to an interview Candace did of her husband.) I suppose Candace is having Twitter problems.

The article has a number of lovely older photos, however, including one of Candace and George with Trump in the Oval Office.

Ellen

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

2 hours ago, Ellen Stuttle said:

I do NOT think that Q is/was a psyop.

Although I think that the Q idea of The Plan has engendered false hope in Trump supporters, I think that the author/authors of the Q drops believed, maybe still believe, in the existence of The Plan.

On the other hand, I’m suspicious that the idea that Q is/was a psyop is itself a psyop intended to have - and having - a demoralizing effect on some Trump supporters.

I’m wondering exactly from what source(s) the Q-as-psyop idea originated.

Ellen,

Do you find it impossible that people with bad intentions tried to infiltrate, or actually infiltrated Q?

Of course they did. This has been going on ever since Corsi was talking daily about Q online years ago. (I bet most people forgot about that.  )

The reason I ask is I tried to sample a large swath of people who talk as if they are in the know about Q.

You might be surprised at the enormous variety out there.

Let's put it this way. I have no doubt people who do psyops used Q to see what they could do with it. That doesn't mean ONLY psyops people started speaking in the name of Q. The other Q people didn't go anywhere.

As to the origin of the Q as psyops idea, Alex Jones has been pumping that one hard recently. So find out who he has been speaking to in the lead up, and that person is probably a good candidate. btw - I think Alex is overreacting, but I certainly understand why he thinks that way. After all, a couple of years ago some Deep State hacker managed to hide child porn within the computer code he uses to run his communications.

As to a different origin, I wouldn't be surprised if it came from the fake news media somewhere in a "trading up the chain" model--and this theory would be a bullshit article on a blog somewhere to get the ball rolling.

Q has a single set of core jargon phrases and a single origin in the Q drops, but that is about all that is universal to Q people. But everybody knows what Q is because the mainstream media tells them what it is. Riiiiight...  

Nobody even knows if the Q drops have been made by the same person or group over time. As to intent and meaning, they are all over the place, at least the Q people I have looked at are. I could name names, but I just don't feel like wading through a bunch of that stuff to accumulate a list.

But I can do something similar to make my point without such a large risk of gratuitous hostility appearing--an analogy. Q in this respect is kinda like Objectivism when you think about it.  

Would anybody in our neck of the woods ever say Yaron Brook, Mark Cuban, Paul Ryan, Tara Smith, Nathaniel Branden, Alan Greenspan, Stephen Hicks, Jennifer Grossman, Steve Ditko, Jimmy Wales, Robert Bidinotto, not to mention Peikoff and Kelley, etc. etc. etc. are all one thing--one Objectivist thing? When we look at Q, we are looking at a spectrum of people as large as the people I mentioned (and I included those like weasel Paul Ryan who later disavowed Rand on purpose, meaning in this analogy high-profile Q people who later disavowed Q.)

And then there's this. What is the normal response to what I just said? I can guarantee you that most of the time it will be, "Well, so and so isn't REALLY into Rand, or doesn't REALLY understand Rand, etc. etc., etc.

Think about that when you see people talk about Q. It's identical at root.

In my own posts, I favor some people who sometimes talk about Q, but I never present them in terms of the purity of their Q-ness. I simply present the people who make the most sense to me and try to be as clear as I can in separating fact from speculation, even when the speculation is informed and I favor it as likely.

Michael

[ThatGuy]

Yesterday, someone quipped here about Q being the alien from STAR TREK, and now I can't find that post. I was going to say that, nah, that Q is an instigator who likes to go around starting trouble for Picard, hardly pacifying...(he did throw The Enterprise into the path of the Borg, after all...but our "Borg" has been in our institutions for some time, now...)

So, then, I was going to say that maybe it's more like James Bond? There, Q (short for "Quartermaster") is a super-secret military guy, never appears in person in the novels, and makes all sorts of gadgets. But then, he really doesn't run secret information drops...and he's British.

But then, Ellen asked about my use of the number 45, because of the numerology known among the Q Continuum (there's that STAR TREK, again...), for which she was summarily mocked for engaging in numerology, to which she summarily replied that it's not her, but the kewpie dolls that engage in it. And they do; "gematria" and BIBLE CODE- like interpretations are often employed by anons to interpret events that coincide with Q posts. (Which goes hand-in-hand with the autistic hyper-ability of pattern-recognition, hence the affectionate term "weaponized autism" among anons).

I'm not big on "bible codes", but the religious angle to it does remind me of the "Q Source" of biblical scholarship. And the Q phenomenon DOES seem to be primarily tailored to a Christian audience, not only in it's slang promise of "it's going to be biblical" (which is from the movie LAW ABIDING CITIZEN, which should get a post in its own right), but appealing heavily towards the morality and the promise of "God wins." Basically, it's purported to be a source of two of the Gospels, also with a debate over its actuality, with a narrative structure, and even a "Q+", like today's Q, indicating multuple sources (which ties in with MSK's speculation that our "Q" could also be a "plurality", possibly with their own agendas: "Some scholars have postulated that Q is actually a plurality of sources, some written and some oral."

"Q Source"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_source
 

Quote

 

The Q source (also called Q document, Q Gospel, or Q from German: Quelle, meaning "source") is a hypothetical written collection of primarily Jesus' sayings (logia). Q is part of the common material found in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke but not in the Gospel of Mark. According to this hypothesis, this material was drawn from the early Church's oral tradition.^[1][2][3]

Along with Marcan priority, Q was hypothesized by 1900, and is one of the foundations of most modern gospel scholarship. Matthew and Luke both used Mark and Q as sources. Some scholars have postulated that Q is actually a plurality of sources, some written and some oral.^[5] Others have attempted to determine the stages in which Q was composed.^[6]

Q's existence has been questioned.^[6] Omitting what should have been a highly treasured dominical document from all early Church catalogs, its lack of mention by Jerome is a conundrum of modern Biblical scholarship.^[7] But copying Q might have been seen as unnecessary as it was preserved in the canonical gospels. Hence, it was preferable to copy the Gospels of Matthew and Luke, "where the sayings of Jesus from Q were rephrased to avoid misunderstandings, and to fit their own situations and their understanding of what Jesus had really meant".^[8] Despite challenges, the two-source hypothesis retains wide support.^[6]

 

The wiki entry goes on to list cases for and against the "Q source", just as we do with ours., etc, etc...

[ThatGuy]

Since the topic of religion and Q is intertwined, to bring THAT into the topic of Q as a Soviet psy-op...I don't know if "Operation Trust" appealed to Christian sentiments of Russians, at that time, but that'd be an interesting parallel, if it did, seeing that the Soviets were atheist and worked to replace religion with the State. But, if we take account of the saying that "religion is the opiate of the masses", and the idea that Q and-or "Operation Trust" were supposed to be "pacifying" (from "opium" to "hopium"), I can't help but ask, even if it's as "devil's advocate", if there's another layer.

If Q is appealing to Christians via ideology, and if it is a psy-op, I don't know that it would have to be a RUSSIAN version. Some people here have discussed James Valiant's book claiming that Jesus was an invention of the Romans to pacify messianic, rebellious Jews. I can't speak to the truth or falseness of that claim  (I've seen people here already present arguments to debunk it), but the existence of the idea itself is interesting. Even if someone was aware of the theory and didn't believe it, they could still employ the concept behind it for their own ends. Hypothetically, if it were true, something similar being employed now would be more suitable to our Christian-based culture than an atheist Russian psy-op (or even be combined as a variation on a theme...Again, though, I'd have to know if Operation Trust appealed to religion as well.)

But if it WERE a pacifying op to calm the American equivalent of "messianic, rebellious Jews against Rome"...well, some people have already warned others NOT to treat Trump like "the second coming", and even to NOT "Trust the Plan", but in Jesus. And the more outward rebellious types like the Proud Boys, when they went out to confront Antifa when law enforcement wouldn't, were told by Trump to "Stand down and stand by."

More importantly, and most seriously, there's the idea of "Hope" again. Now that the Q op seems to have failed, or on hold, at the minimum, there's a loss of hope in "the plan" among some, while others are still holding on via their religious faith. "God doesn't work on our time, but on His", or even rationalizations of "this may be punishment for allowing abortion for so long", etc, that kind of thinking. Ultimately, it's the idea of patience and trusting God to do this, that he would never let America fall to communism, but we have to have "faith". Well, the Christians have been waiting 2000 years for the Second Coming, despite long periods of persecution, so we know that they hold patience as a virtue...but is it at the price of taking action amongst themselves, in the here-and-now? Or will it lead to a rising, in the sense of "god helps those who help themselves?" Will they be pacified, or will they find a rational to act now, according to "His will"?

Anyway, just something to think about. Again, I don't know the actuality, but if there are multi psy-ops going on, it's not hard to imagine that this could be one way to manipulate Christians, in either direction.