Selene Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 A simple story of the 2016 election? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 You crow-eaters think you have it bad. Awhile back, someone on "Morning Joe" bet Mika a pickup truck that Trump wouldn't win. See the video below where they discussed it today (or maybe yesterday). Now he seems awfully sheepish as the time to pay up nears... <script height="216px" width="384px" src="http://player.ooyala.com/iframe.js#pbid=b171980b65ae4996bffea4da902c7846&ec=VidWYwMDE6m3syuX3pjcx9SXKViSyAfh"></script> She is going to collect, too. I hope they televise the guy handing her the keys. Here on OL, we do not make high-stakes bets about elections. But we do deal in nutrition. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Just in case y'all wanna know: "@ghosthunter_lol: Iowa key endorsement for @realDonaldTrump Can't wait for the Iowa caucus in 4 weeks! #Trump2016 pic.twitter.com/JBfyFrZfFb"— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 5, 2016 Drip... drip... drip... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Bissell Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 FYI, the most recent Romper Room poll indicates that The Donald has peaked and is on his way down. (Might have been Donald Duck, though.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 OMG!I will have to get a new crow!Marc!Hey Marc!You're gonna have company for dinner!Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 FYI, the most recent Romper Room poll indicates that The Donald has peaked and is on his way down. (Might have been Donald Duck, though.) Roger, I don't know about a peak, but here's a peek from Lowell, Mass. last night in the freezing cold: This crowd shot from Donald Trump’s Massachusetts rally is absolutely mind-bogglingBy Chris CillizzaJanuary 5, 2016Washington Post Here's the photo that article referred to: About that incredible @wpjenna crowd shot from last night's Trump rally: https://t.co/SIT6oLOWWl pic.twitter.com/QR888KBYZ7— Rebecca Sinderbrand (@sinderbrand) January 5, 2016 Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Ach du lieber, reminds me of those ole brau hall days of ze 1923 Putsch!An emotional Hitler spoke to the crowd."I am going to fulfill the vow I made to myself five years ago when I was a blind cripple in the military hospital - to know neither rest nor peace until the November criminals had been overthrown, until on the ruins of the wretched Germany of today there should have arisen once more a Germany of power and greatness, of freedom and splendor."The crowd in the beer hall roared their approval and sang "Deutschland über Alles." Hitler was euphoric. This was turning into a night of triumph for him. Tomorrow he might actually be dictator of Germany.http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/putsch2.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Drip... drip... drip...Leaving no mud hole unchurned, the hippopotamus raises The Foreign Born carcass in its mighty jaws.Donald Trump says Ted Cruz's Canadian birth could be "very precarious" for GOP: https://t.co/O1wTcj15U0 by @costareports @PhilipRucker— Jenna Johnson (@wpjenna) January 5, 2016 Edited January 6, 2016 by william.scherk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backlighting Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Elephant? Hippopotamus? WTF???Please google donald trump eminent domain (no quotes), read the first half dozen hits, and ponder whether any animal better metaphorizes Donald Trump's attitude toward private property rights better than a JACKAL.A jackal versus a snake? Is this the choice we want in November? I'll pass.REBThere is no John Galt running!And as you know, he wouldn't run were he alive.Either Trump, Cruz or Rubio (yes, they each have some misgivings) but overalland as opposed to the dark side's candidate, would be a significant improvement.Whose best for the country and who has the best chance in the general election are the questions I ask myself.-J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Bissell Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 In re #2525:You talk a lot about the crow here in this thread, but perhaps you haven't considered the ramifications of the crow epistemology. Sure, you're already tired of having DT's eminent domain iniquities pointed out in this thread, and would like those references not to happen any more, but do you really expect newcomers to the thread to read all 2000+ posts as a qualification to commenting?? (Without having their ears pinned back, that is?)For that matter, perhaps you didn't realize (or don't care??) that you've already mentioned "crow" more than 150 times in this thread? Not just 1200 posts ago, but still, now?[stay tuned, folks, for Leonard Peikoff's next (and final?) book: More Ominous Parallels: Eminent Domain and Eating Crow.]REB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Bissell Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Yum - the Jackal and the Crowgasm. Feast on this. ;-)http://s26.postimg.org/yuh6ci96x/Jackal.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Roger,Just so you know, Marc (a wonderful person I don't think you know) is absolutely convinced that Trump has no chance to win the nomination. It's an illness, I know, but he's been that way since the beginning. William, I suspect, dislikes Trump.I, myself, am an unashamed Trump groupie. (Like all sane people. ) We actually had a couple of people leave OL because I support Trump without pain or fear or guilt and in loud voice. Especially when I get on my Trump as a Randian hero kick. But what the hell, I suspect they will be back after the election. If not, not...I made a wager with Marc (and I think William is on board and maybe Peter) that either he would eat crow or I would about Trump being nominated. You should see some of the recipes, crow images, etc., we have come up with.It seems to be a tacit agreement that if Trump gets nominated and after the barbecue, there will be another crow-chowdown about him beating Hillary.I haven't figured out if you hate Trump, don't think he has a chance, secretly want to love him, or whatever. But you are more than welcome to share Marc's crow. I have no problem throwing another bird or two on the fire. btw - Don't think I am alone in my Trump groupie-ness. Here on OL, there is a small fan club.Also, out there in O-Land, you will find Trump admirers in the oddest places. I will mention one just to prove my point: Dr. Michael Hurd. He does like most people who support Trump do. He says something positive about Trump, then out come some really nasty Trump-bashers and he stays mostly quiet. After the dust settles, he comes out with something else favorable about Trump and out come the anti-Trumpers on their crusade. He lets the dust settle. And on and on it goes.I haven't talked to him, but I have made a pro-Trump comment here and there on his threads and he always likes them. He never likes the anti-Trump messages, so that, to me, in addition to some of his insightful articles on the Trump phenomenon, is a pretty good indication of where he stands. Don't forget, this is a person on the fundy side of Objectivism. He is not the only one. Not by far.So beware, beware...You might get contaminated around here with Trumpkinitis. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Yum - the Jackal and the Crowgasm. Feast on this. ;-)http://s26.postimg.org/yuh6ci96x/Jackal.pngHow the hell did Roger find out about our catering service? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) I like jackals. They are no more awful than wolves, foxes, coyotes, or wild dogs, and they are very beautiful. I don't like to see them being abused, no more than I like to see crows farmed for bizarre election rituals, or a metaphor beaten to death again and again. Michael has mentioned his troubling fantasies some hundred-odd times, you say. Oh well. It will all be over in Cleveland, which is like hey, a week away. Some folks like to celebrate early and hard, and there's nothing wrong with that. They will be humiliated later, at length, in proportion to the strutting and crowing about final victory long before it took place. "... as the time to pay up nears..."Here I have tried to combine the beauty of the jackal with the beauty of eminent domain, and added a gloss of Trumpery. Edited January 6, 2016 by william.scherk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 The idiot mainstream press doesn't realize that this was seeded into the ad on purpose just so they would do a gotcha on it.Thus the ad gets its normal ad time (which Trump pays for) and it gets a lot of publicity from all the articles written about this (which Trump does not pay for).Finally somebody noticed, and it wasn't even for print. It was for TV!Donald Trump Shouldn't Have Bothered Buying Airtime. Cable News Ran His Ad 60 Times For Free.Fox, MSNBC and CNN seemingly played it on loop over 24 hours.by Michael CalderoneThe Huffington Post01/05/2016I would quote from the article, but the headline says it all.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 The idiot mainstream press doesn't realize that this was seeded into the ad on purpose just so they would do a gotcha on it.Thus the ad gets its normal ad time (which Trump pays for) and it gets a lot of publicity from all the articles written about this (which Trump does not pay for).Finally somebody noticed, and it wasn't even for print. It was for TV!Donald Trump Shouldn't Have Bothered Buying Airtime. Cable News Ran His Ad 60 Times For Free.Fox, MSNBC and CNN seemingly played it on loop over 24 hours.by Michael CalderoneThe Huffington Post01/05/2016I would quote from the article, but the headline says it all.MichaelThe marxists know that they will be quoted and reverbed automatically.Rush has for well over a decade made the almost daily clip of the exact same "word choice = messaging" that pours out of each seven (7) minute top of the hour TV/cable/radio update.% penetration.A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Crackin' 40: I am in New Hampshire. Just received great news from Reuters poll. Thank you for your support! pic.twitter.com/yzp9dGfbce— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 6, 2016 Drip... drip... drip... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Please google donald trump eminent domain (no quotes), read the first half dozen hits...Roger,On a thread this size with the average intelligence and commitment to understanding of the people who contribute, do you really think people are not aware of Trump's views (and few failed attempts) re eminent domain?I believe it has been discussed pretty deeply on this very thread. Videos and all. If not here, somewhere on OL... but I bet here...Come on...Granted, we are using animal metaphors for a little fun, but this is OL, not Romper Room. The Titanic is sinking. A lady calls to a couple of guys who are playing chess, "We gotta get outta here! The ship is sinking! The Ship's Mate has prepared some lifeboats. Run!" One of the chess players looks disdainfully at the other. "Did you hear that? The Ship's Mate indeed. That so-called gentleman put his hand on a knight the other day and took it back, then did not want to move it anymore. You should see the fuss he made. He still doesn't think he did anything wrong." The lady, leaving, yells, "Come on, will you? Do you want to die?" The other chess player looks up without expression and bats his eyes. "Your move, old chap." The first player, shuddering, says, "He's a chess cheater. That's what he is. A cheat. Why should we have anything to do with a man like that? Check." The two are never heard from again...(Do I really need to put another crow in the pen?) MichaelMaybe the use of eminent domain can be made palatable, or perhaps even heroic, to Objectivish-types. Let’s see. We could start with a heroic business man, let’s call him Donald Roark, who wants to acquire a piece of land from a hold-out landowner, say, the dowager Delores Brickwahl, so that he can build a hotel and parking lot on her land and the surrounding properties that he’s already acquired. Roark decides to take advantage of a middleman, Brickwahl’s friend Pete Keating, who deceitfully offers to repair and remodel the dowager’s aging home, and redo the landscaping, all for free as long as she agrees to allow Keating the enjoyment of implement his own designs and to make no changes no matter how small. She loves the idea and agrees to the terms. Roark has a secret deal with Keating, which states that he, rather than Keating, will be doing all of the designing of the remodeling and landscaping, and that he has a contractual guarantee from Keating that it will be done exactly as he plans. After the designing stage is long finished, and the building work is almost complete, Mrs. Brickwahl begins enjoying a little bit of gardening, and prunes one of the rose bushes that Keating had planted. Roark sees this as an outrageous violation of his contract (everything was to be left as he designed it, and not to be altered in any way), and as an opportunity to practice the Objectivish virtue of “justice," so, after making sure that no people are on the property one evening, he dynamites it, not only razing it but leaving a crater. He admits to the dynamiting, and at trial he is exonerated after giving a wonderfully romantic/heroic speech about Prometheus or something, and about how the contract that he never had with Brickwahl wasn’t honored by her, so he had the right to destroy what he created. The courtroom cheers. Even the judge and jury cheer. Yippy! Justice is served! Mrs. Brickwahl’s insurance company won’t pay because the jury ruled that Roark was in the right. She has very little money and can’t afford to rebuild. Roark offers to pay current market value for the property and to buy a new similar home for her elsewhere, an offer which is 1/4 of the offer that she had previously turned down. No other potential buyers are to be found, due to Roark's ruthlessness and his backing by the court system. The dowager has no option but to accept Roark's offer. Problem solved. We’ve found a way to use the initiation of force to take others’ property that certain Objectivish-types will find to be perfectly moral and reasonable! J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Trump Tweet from 1-3:Hillary said that guns don't keep you safe. If she really believes that she should demand that her heavily armed bodyguards quickly disarm!-----Fun stuff.J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Orthodox Objectivism is anti political which was an absurd position, especially in the 1960's.Also, one of the major factors for the failure of the Objectivist movement's potential growth.We missed an important window of opportunity.A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Elephant? Hippopotamus? WTF???Context, Roger, context. The Elephant is the symbol of the Grand Old Party. The GOP are going to choose a candidate for the November presidential ballot by protracted process. Their big convention is in July. Today is January 6th. The protracted process is a step-wise, state-by-state, incremental battle for numbers.The Elephant Party needs a candidate. Public opinion polls, in the aggregate, show one candidate with a plurality at the present time, averaged over the nation. If the GOP had a fearless leader like we have here, then the GOP would simply call the contest over, as our fearless leader has. It's done. It's over. Trump has won.So, at some point in temporal reality, ether before or at the convention, The Final Elephant will have received enough delegates for the chance to kill the Donkey. The Magic Number is 1237.The Hippopotamus is Michael's awkward metaphor for The Donald. He took my simple trope of a Musical Chairs for GOP Hopefuls ... and rambled off down the river for some congenial symbol, not attempting to fit it to any scenario but Trump Wins. He is in love; what can you do?You shot off into the scrubland in search of a relevant illustration of a rapacious, immoral canine-ish species, Roger. You are not in love with Trump. I too shot off into the scrubland myself, so I am not criticizing, just reporting.Please google donald trump eminent domain (no quotes), read the first half dozen hits, and ponder whether any animal better metaphorizes Donald Trump's attitude toward private property rights better than a JACKAL.I would hope everyone has made a good-faith effort to research Trump's attempts to use eminent domain, notably with Vera Coking in Atlantic City.Michael has raised the point that eminent domain is supported by all the other GOP candidates -- at least in some ways. If we think of eminent domain in the context of aqueducts, dams, pipelines, electrical transmission lines, railways, highways, roads, miltary bases, ports, and so on, it seems obvious that in our mixed economies, big projects in the public interest are rammed through the property of thousands. In a perfect world -- as we have in Canada -- the 'public interest' is subject to dispute and appeal.Was there a grand 'public interest' in condemning Coking's property? Was there a grand 'public interest' in ramming an Interstate or a border-crossing pipeline or other infrastructure across many privately held properties? That is a question for debate, comparing and contrasting the two kinds of 'interest.' To some principled people, Trump's actions were solely for his own commercial interests and desires, and using city muscle to render the wanted property into his hands was seen as a little sleazy and overbearing.On the other hand, what about the vast use of eminent domain for such as, say, the now-cancelled Keystone completion project? Aren't they comparable? Here is Donald: For me, the concept is 'expropriation.' In my context, the need for expropriation (as seen by government) comes for massive projects like the Site C Dam, as well as for tiny things like widening roads.Some 'fixed mindset' people insist that the Atlantic City attempt+failure to 'grab' Coking's property shows an unpleasant side to Trump's attitude toward 'the little people.'These issues have not been resolved in this thread.-- I did an internal OL search for you, Roger. My link will take you to the 37 posts in this thread that discussed or mentioned eminent domain.Please google donald trump eminent domain (no quotes), read the first half dozen hits... I believe it has been discussed pretty deeply on this very thread.At some point the contrast between public and private interest in expropriation can be examined. It hasn't been done in any of the 37 mentions.Awhile back, someone on "Morning Joe" bet Mika a pickup truck that Trump wouldn't win. [...] Now he seems awfully sheepish as the time to pay up nears...Mika Brzezinski is so brainy and sexy. So Joe Scarborough bet Mika a pick-up truck that Trump wouldn't ... win ... the GOP nomination.Is it just me, or does 'the time to pay up' mean time to give Mika the keys to the truck? I don't understand how "Now" is anywhere near the time to do so. Insert reference to The Magic Number. Look at calendar. Shake head in puzzlement.Just in case y'all wanna know:[...]Drip... drip... drip...This gives me an opportunity to update Roger on another unresolved issue.Roger, to some minds here and there, the contest for the Republican nomination is already won. It is all over. The polls are speaking. Trump just polled 42% nationally, which will translate into winning all the primaries, or enough of the delegates to clinch the nomination. He has the Magic 1237 in the bag, morons. In those minds, It Is Over. Pay Up. Eat Crow. Bow Down. Enter the Trump Era. Believe.I am still on the fence, or the wall, as it were. I am not going to get thrilled to the bone until around March 15, when the big delegate totals start rolling in. Here is a thought for the stumped and the stumpers and the Trumpers. What trumps wishful thinking? Ayn Rand knows, I think. She has left clues for me.Let us say I am a wishful thinker, an emotionalist, irrational. My sentimental favourite is the former Canadian. If I wish and wish and wish for him to come out on top in Iowa, will my wish come true?I look at the crowing about the 42% and I think, well, does that mean that Trump will get 42% of the delegate count in Iowa, 42% in New Hampshire, 42% in North Carolina and 42% in Nevada?I look at the crowing now and I think I will demand some crow-eating by Michael if Trump does not win Iowa. But then I think he is not claiming or predicting that Trump will win Iowa. He doesn't care who wins Iowa. He is confident that in the end, Trump will win the nomination during the protracted process of selection. That is his only claim, and the only claim I should hold him to.Here is a final thought for Roger. What will it take for you to acknowledge that Trump is probably going to win the Republican nomination, and when might that be in the protracted process? For me it is when he gets close to the Magic Number. I would ask the corollary question of Michael, but I don't think he swings that way.Here I mash up Clinton's Clam and Trump's Mouth: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Bissell Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 William, such a thoughtful, helpful post. Thank you!In re eminent domain and its thorough yet not thorough discussion here on this thread: I think there is a *clear* distinction between expropriation for "public" vs. "private" interest, and I think Donald Trump thinks so too, or he would not have bothered with the transparent ploy of wrapping himself in the "public interest" to legitimize such an obvious, egregious attempt to use eminent domain for his own private interest.Creating jobs, indeed. If I go around breaking windows, that will create jobs, eh? Yet, we call that vandalism, not economic activity in the "public interest." Similarly, Trump has clearly shown himself to be nothing better than a common crook - but doesn't his suit look fine! (Al Capone "created" employment, too.)And does it matter whether Trump succeeded or not with his privately interested eminent domain thuggishness? He tried it repeatedly, and he unrepentently kept swearing by how good a thing it was on national television. The duck may have stumbled, but he's still quacking. (Hey - Donald Duck!) If a failed terrorist goes on Al Jazeera and talks about how good terrorism is, do we enthusiastically rave about how wonderful a prospect he would be for the Oval Office? Dumb question - apparently some of us would.As for when and whether Trump succeeds in wrapping up the GOP nomination, I'll be watching with great interest, like so many others. But since I have made no predication, just uttered the hope (God save us!) that he not be nominated, I don't consider myself in any kind of crow-eating jeopardy any more than I was when I said I hoped Barack Obama would not be elected (or re-elected). Those happy about such catastrophes will no doubt make crowing noises, but that is on them, not me.One other thought - counterfactual though I believe it to be - maybe, if Trump is elected, he will turn out not to be as awful as I fear he will be. The only President I've found that to be true of is President Reagan. And Trump ain't no Reagan. Maybe we don't deserve another Reagan. Maybe we deserve Clinton or Trump. But shouldn't we have some choice other than an internationalist "progressive" and a nationalist "progressive"?REB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Just in case anyone is interested...Trump quietly builds a data juggernautDefying skeptics, he puts tools in place to get out the vote.By Kenneth P. Vogel and Darren SamuelsohnPolitico01/05/16Drip... drip... drip...Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Creating jobs, indeed. If I go around breaking windows, that will create jobs, eh?. . .... Trump has clearly shown himself to be nothing better than a common crookRoger,With all due respect, it sounds like you know next to nothing about Trump's different businesses.The eminent domain thing, proportionally, is like the following:0.01 % did something bad99.99% produced massive wealth with iconic real estate all over the world (not to mention TV shows, bestselling books, beauty pageants, licensing, clothing, etc.)No war profits. All wealth was produced where no wealth was before. It was not merely acquired.That's a common crook?Your definition of common crook and mine is way different. May I suggest you read The Art of the Deal at least to educate yourself on the minimum? Or not... after all, it's just "common crook" stuff. Food for thought from your local Trump groupie...Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Here's an oldie from the start of the thread back in July just to explode the heads of the anti-Trumper Rand people.I'm glad RR opened this thread.I had considered opening one on Trump and calling it "Hank Rearden for President."People are currently reacting to Trump in the same manner they did Rearden in Atlas Shrugged. Here's a passage that captures some of it. Passengers are on a train.An office building appeared, close to the tracks. The big neon sign on its roof lighted the interiors of the coaches as they went by. It said: REARDEN STEEL.A passenger, who was a professor of economics, remarked to his companion, "Of what importance is an individual in the titanic collective achievements of our industrial age?" Another, who was a journalist, made a note for future use in his column: "Hank Rearden is the kind of man who sticks his name on everything he touches. You may, from this, form your own opinion about the character of Hank Rearden."I love Donald Trump.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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