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study claims unvaccinated children have less disease

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A study claims that unvaccinated children are healthier than vaccinated children.

http://vactruth.com/2014/02/26/unvaccinated-children-healthier/

Here is a pdf of the study.

http://origin.library.constantcontact.com/download/get/file/1101240076659-1720/Unvacc+New.pdf

I'm quite sure this study never was and never will be published in a respectable scientific journal. They would lose respectableness by publishing quack ideas and they would lose advertising revenue by publishing articles that knock the products they advertise.

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A study claims that unvaccinated children are healthier than vaccinated children.

http://vactruth.com/2014/02/26/unvaccinated-children-healthier/

Here is a pdf of the study.

http://origin.library.constantcontact.com/download/get/file/1101240076659-1720/Unvacc+New.pdf

I'm quite sure this study never was and never will be published in a respectable scientific journal. They would lose respectableness by publishing quack ideas and they would lose advertising revenue by publishing articles that knock the products they advertise.

The unvaccinated children who survive their encounter with infectious disease have less illness later on.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Yes. children who grow up without automobiles walk farther. Vaccination carries risks. Statistically, it is good. For you, it might be bad. You will not know until you do it. Roll the dice. Those are the same dice you roll when you walk out the door each day. My sister is a Born Again Christian. We attended a Come to Jesus Meeting at her church. They presented skits in which people of all walks of life met with untimely deaths. Those who were saved went to heaven. It impressed me. When I was diagnosed with cancer, I told the surgeon, "You know, for a man whose only tool is a hammer, you are finding a lot of nails here... Look, I can be walking down the street and be killed by a falling piano... What are the odds? Do you know? No. So, just take out the tissue I do not need and leave all the rest: ALL THE REST. I might need it someday..."

Just to say... Children who lived before the invention of railroads were never killed by trains...

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In the long run, it is natural selection that improves a species, not protection from harm which does not always protect.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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I do not care about improving the species; I care about improving myself. I had an accident at work and was slightly injured. The facial abrasion looked worse than it was - they always do... Anyway, I got a tetanus shot. Nothing happened. Everyone was amazed. They all seem to swell up from the procedure. The Germ Theory of Disease is only a partial explanation for health and illness. Eat your vegetables. Take your vitamins.

And get vaccinated. You might not want to be an experimental subject. Failures are known. Read about polio vaccine that caused polio. But after a few decades, we pretty much know what the odds are.

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About polio. When I was a kid (that was prior to 1960) summer was "polio hell". During the summer when people went to swimming pools or gathered in air condition theaters was the time when polio spread from one to the other. Not a summer went by prior to 1960 (or so) when we didn't read about a kid dying from polio or ending up in an artificial lung.

Now the only place you find artificial lungs are in museums or musty old warehouse where they were put, when people stopped getting this hideous disease.

People who argue against vaccination on principle are crack-pots. It is as simple as that.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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The question of vaccinations is a risks/reward issue for the individual. The related issue is your confidence in the medical establishment.

I and one other person among the 32 in my flight at OTS had a bad reaction to our military vaccinations. I got a high fever bordering on dangerous causing me to be bedridden for about 24 hours. The other guy had his arm swell up within minutes looking like a golf ball had been shoved under his skin. We both recovered in about a day and a half.

A close friend of mine is now permanently disabled because of a reaction she had to a flu vaccination last fall.

My uncle had his teeth stained bright yellow because of a bad reaction to an injection in the 1960's. Dental work was able to bleach the staining.

My mother had polio as a child and had to relearn to walk so I can appreciate the preventative value of vaccinations.

Since the government has a heavy and increasingly heavy hand in all things medical the question of vaccinations must be watched like a hawk. There have been serious mistakes, cover-ups and corruption in the past so every individual has a right to worry - even more so now that a government chronically involved in cover-ups has invested its political future in controlling medical care.

I'm in favor of vaccination and I intend to get one for shingles - since I had chicken pocks as a child and my grandfather had shingles several years ago. I am also in favor of watching the medical profession closely since many of them and their masters in particular cannot be trusted.

Dennis

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What can I say. May I point out that the Salk and Sabin vaccines have eliminate the scourge of polio almost in the entirety.

Also smallpox vaccine. The only place where small pox now exists are in the vaults of evil governments.

George Washington saved the American Revolution by having his troop winter quartered in Trenton NJ inoculate with dried pus from small pox boils. five percent who were inoculated died and 95 percent lived to tell about and never, ever, ever got smallpox thereafter.

Ba'al Chatzav

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About polio. When I was a kid (that was prior to 1960) summer was "polio hell". During the summer when people went to swimming pools or gathered in air condition theaters was the time when polio spread from one to the other. Not a summer went by prior to 1960 (or so) when we didn't read about a kid dying from polio or ending up in an artificial lung.

When I was a kid, about six years old, I got polio.

I was lucky. It was a relatively mild case and Dr. Stuttle, my mother's second husband and my adoptive father, was an expert in the treatment of childhood polio. I ended up being able to walk without crutches or braces.

There are residual problems, however, which worsen with age.

The older sister of my best friend in my early years was considered a child genius. She contracted the variant of polio which affects the brain. She was still intelligent afterward, but not the prodigy she had been.

The father of a girl I knew at summer camp, a successful and active businessman, was stricken by pulmonary polio and spent the rest of his not-many years afterward in an iron lung. He was brought by truck, and with medical attendants, to the summer camp to see his daughter perform - she was a champion at doing the kind of water surfboard acrobatics where you're towed by a speedboat. Her father had to watch from inside the iron lung with a mirror arrangement.

Persons without the sort of money that man had were in rows of iron lungs in hospital wards.

People born after about 1960 or so don't know the dread of polio they've escaped and the terrible reality encountered by the most unfortunate sufferers from that disease.

Ellen

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I don't know all the details about my mother having polio - mostly that she couldn't walk for some period of time and had to relearn to walk. She was affected by it later in life mostly related to having pain in her ribs and sharp stabbing pains occasionally. She also suffered from feeling cold all the time most of her life. She was known to garden in the summer wearing a white sweater.

Some of those issues were no doubt related to her almost dying as an infant from a calcium deficiency related to my grandmother nursing my uncle while pregnant with my mother.

It is unfortunate that the government has been allowed to destroy the medical system at a time when trust in government is approaching single digits. Who will trust what the government has to say anything about anything related to medical care and vaccinations in particular. They botched the swine vaccine back in the day killing a number of people. I suspect we will see offshore medicine and research become the new standard of medicine if things are not turned around very soon.

Dennis

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People born after about 1960 or so don't know the dread of polio they've escaped and the terrible reality encountered by the most unfortunate sufferers from that disease.

Ellen

people who did not live through polio hell know not what they are talking about. After a decade of Salk and Sabin polio became an historical item like the Black Death of the Middle Ages.

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I do not believe that vaccines are safe for everyone and had I known what I know now 20 years ago, I don't think I would have vaccinated my son as I did. The government keeps pouring on more and more vaccine mandates and the autism rates keep rising. You can find "scientific" studies on both sides of the vaccine debate just as you can with global warming. Follow the money and don't forget that drug companies are usually in bed with government. I used to think the anti-vaxers were nuts, but I have since changed my mind. I've heard too much firsthand from parents in the autism community. I do not know for certain what caused my son's autism as there were also other immune, environmental, and genetic issues in play, but I do strongly suspect vaccination may have been a contributing factor.

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Kat, I saw a little of a debate on autism half an hour ago (CNN). The two experts were at loggerheads, NOT on the efficacy of vaccination, but on the risks of how the vaccinations are given - the one male physician has a book out on the subject apparently, and argues strongly for the vacs given advisedly in the context of each child, and over a period of time, and the other, a woman, was just as passionate about them being given in one go (I think). I don't know enough, and would have paid more attention if I'd seen your post earlier. :smile:

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I do not believe that vaccines are safe for everyone and had I known what I know now 20 years ago, I don't think I would have vaccinated my son as I did. The government keeps pouring on more and more vaccine mandates and the autism rates keep rising. You can find "scientific" studies on both sides of the vaccine debate just as you can with global warming. Follow the money and don't forget that drug companies are usually in bed with government. I used to think the anti-vaxers were nuts, but I have since changed my mind. I've heard too much firsthand from parents in the autism community. I do not know for certain what caused my son's autism as there were also other immune, environmental, and genetic issues in play, but I do strongly suspect vaccination may have been a contributing factor.

There is some indicative evidence that autism is genetically conditioned.

Read the article in -Wired-.

http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers_pr.html

Ba'al Chatzaf

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I do not believe that vaccines are safe for everyone and had I known what I know now 20 years ago, I don't think I would have vaccinated my son as I did. The government keeps pouring on more and more vaccine mandates and the autism rates keep rising. You can find "scientific" studies on both sides of the vaccine debate just as you can with global warming. Follow the money and don't forget that drug companies are usually in bed with government. I used to think the anti-vaxers were nuts, but I have since changed my mind. I've heard too much firsthand from parents in the autism community. I do not know for certain what caused my son's autism as there were also other immune, environmental, and genetic issues in play, but I do strongly suspect vaccination may have been a contributing factor.

There is some indicative evidence that autism is genetically conditioned.

Read the article in -Wired-.

http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers_pr.html

Ba'al Chatzaf

If one twin has autism, there is 90% chance the other twin also has autism. I don't see how this rules out vaccines as a factor in autism. What if it is: gene + vaccine --> autism

It's a reasonable guess that if one twin is vaccinated, the other probably will also be vaccinated, which could explain the 90%. What happens if one twin is vaccinated and the other not?

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In the U.S. nearly 100 percent of the children are vaccinated and only one percent or so are autistic to any degree. Conclusion: vaccination does not cause autism.

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In the U.S. nearly 100 percent of the children are vaccinated and only one percent or so are autistic to any degree. Conclusion: vaccination does not cause autism.

Every winter a bunch of people slip on ice and fall down. Very few of them break a bone. Conclusion: slipping on ice does not break bones.

Man goes to a doctor with a broken bone. Doctor asks how did it happen. Man says I slipped on ice. Doctor says bullshit, there is no statistical evidence that slipping on ice breaks bones.

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There is no question that those attracted to medicine are generally 3rd tier intellectuals and scientists at best. Now that we are actually talking about government medicine it moves to 4th or less tier with little prospect of getting good statistical studies on a regular basis. 1st world medicine being transformed into 3rd world medicine.

Dennis

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In the U.S. nearly 100 percent of the children are vaccinated and only one percent or so are autistic to any degree. Conclusion: vaccination does not cause autism.

Bob,

That statistic is way skewed.

The spike in autism is logarithmic, not a straight line. (In 2012 Autism Speaks ran a 1 in 88 is too many campaign. In 2014 that number is 1 in 68--1 in 42 boys and 1 in 189 girls for autism spectrum disorder.)

Conclusion: nobody knows what causes autism yet, but lots of people say what doesn't even though they don't know what they are talking about.

As to vaccines, I personally think giving a newborn 40 different vaccines right out of the vagina is an abomination, but I need to study this some in order to make a truly informed opinion. Why not let the kids grow a little and stagger the vaccines over a few years? That's just one question among many that doesn't seem to have good answers.

Michael

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It's a reasonable guess that if one twin is vaccinated, the other probably will also be vaccinated, which could explain the 90%. What happens if one twin is vaccinated and the other not?

Aha! Let''s get that Federal study going today...however, it should only be funded by non-tax deductible contributions...

that should get rid of the climate change scum that might try to use this for funding...

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In the U.S. nearly 100 percent of the children are vaccinated and only one percent or so are autistic to any degree. Conclusion: vaccination does not cause autism.

Bob,

That statistic is way skewed.

The spike in autism is logarithmic, not a straight line. (In 2012 Autism Speaks ran a 1 in 88 is too many campaign. In 2014 that number is 1 in 68--1 in 42 boys and 1 in 189 girls for autism spectrum disorder.)

Conclusion: nobody knows what causes autism yet, but lots of people say what doesn't even though they don't know what they are talking about.

As to vaccines, I personally think giving a newborn 40 different vaccines right out of the vagina is an abomination, but I need to study this some in order to make a truly informed opinion. Why not let the kids grow a little and stagger the vaccines over a few years? That's just one question among many that doesn't seem to have good answers.

Michael

Where in the world are newborns getting 40 vaccines at birth? My son's have been staggered over 10 years (will get the last this summer), and he hasn't had 40 total over that period. In any case, I agree about the staggering over a number of years, but I thought that was common practice already.

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Deanna,

I heard Kat complain about this since she is now going to lots of Autism conferences and plowing through a lot of technical material. (I don't accompany her because my brain is already overloaded with my other studies. :) )

I don't have a good source for you, but I can get one. Doing a Google search just now, I came up with the site of a newspaper in Iowa where you can see this referenced in a letter to the editor way back in 2008.

Disagree with Donahue column on vaccinations
Jennifer Pedersen, Marshalltown
Times-Republican
March 12, 2008

From the letter:

I would like to respond to the subject of Dr. Donohue’s syndicated column that appeared in the Times-Republican on March 4. Dr. Donohue claimed that research has been done to prove the best timing of vaccines. He claimed that the vaccination schedule laid out by the AAP is designed to provide the best immunity for children. This statement could not be further from the truth. Vaccines are tested individually, not in the mass combinations we currently give to our children. Standard testing practices for vaccines only look at short term, usually three- to five-week reactions, and do not follow children to see what types of long-term effects may occur. Studies have not been done to investigate the long-term effects of using so many vaccines in such a short period of time.

To claim that waiting to vaccinate your child until they are older might harm them is completely untrue. Waiting until a child is 2 or 3 years old gives their immune system time to mature and gives their bodies a better chance to deal with the vaccines. Studies have shown that waiting to vaccinate leads to far fewer issues with language delay, development disabilities and mental retardation.

Our current vaccination schedule for newborns includes nearly 40 vaccines that are to be given by the time a child is 18 months old. I don’t know many adults who would like to receive 40 vaccines in the next 40 months of their lives, even though they have fully developed immune systems and much larger body mass to deal with this onslaught.


I normally would not post a letter to the editor, but I don't have the time this morning to plow through the vicious us-against-them religiosity you get in searching this issue these days. I'll ask Kat for some better sources later.

Kat is very good at trying to get information about this stuff from both sides. But the problem is both sides are in a jihad against each other. And it's about as nasty as it can get and they are quick to attack you when you simply try to check their positions.

One side claims that excessive vaccines are causing a huge increase in autism and other ills. Generally they claim the reason is the perpetrators are greedy bastards in giant corporations in collusion with the government who will do anything to keep their power, to get a buck and to keep from being embarrassed. The other side claims that measles, smallpox, the bubonic plague and God knows what else is now infesting an entire generation because the wacko anti-vaccination loons are hellbent on throwing us back into the Stone Age.

Kat looks at this and says all she wants to do is fix her little man. And she plows through the shit.

In fact, we have developed a kind of intellectual shit umbrella for all the crap they rain down on us from their respective jihads. You wouldn't believe the distortions and dirty tricks both sides play.

However, there is real information out there and it seriously looks like some bad things are happening in the vaccination world. Not all bad, of course. But some. Nobody can deny autism is increasing. Instead of fighting a war about who is right or wrong, a bit of common sense is in order. That's where Kat and I fall.

We don't say definitely that excessive vaccination of newborns is a contributing factor in this rise, but we do say it looks pretty bad, so, from what we know now, it's a good possibility. My gut reaction screams against using newborns in this manner, but I do have an opening inside myself to go with evidence after enough studies have been done if they show I have nothing to worry about.

We also don't say eliminate vaccines. That would be boneheaded.

This is definitely something that needs further study and I think people who disagree with that--as they point accusing fingers from one side at the other--are playing God games. The victims of their folly are very young children. A pox on both their houses. I wish they would just stop it.

Michael

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“Someone asked me...how it felt and I was reminded of a story that a fellow townsman of ours used to tell--Abraham Lincoln. They asked him how he felt once after an unsuccessful election. He said he felt like a little boy who had stubbed his toe in the dark. He said that he was too old to cry, but it hurt too much to laugh.”
Adlai E. Stevenson II

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