Are anarchists overgrown teenagers?

[sjw]

I don't know why this memory occurred to me now,

Sure it's a memory George.

But why don't you continue where it all started, back at the beginning. Tell us all about your childhood, your relationship with your mother and father, childhood friends and experiences. Were you raised well or did you have problems with your parents? Were you a bully, or were you bullied?--Does your exaggerated "alpha male" personality extend from the intellectual to the physical sphere? Did you have friends or were you a loner? Have you always been so prone to foaming fits of anger when your intellectual superiority was challenged, or is this a later development? Were you generally surrounded by intellectual equals, or was it as it is now, by sycophants or those who otherwise lack the ability to challenge you?

Shayne

[Brant Gaede]

Aside from this generic motive, the only thing that occurs to me relates to a memory from my early childhood. My parents gave me one of those large inflatable clowns that was weighted at the bottom, so it would pop back up no matter how hard it was punched.

For some reason, I could not resist punching this clown again and again and again; and I would laugh each time it popped back up with that stupid grin on its face, as if begging to be punched again. I knew, of course, that none of my fun would be possible if the clown was not full of air (hot air was not specifically required), but the clown never lost a bit of air, no matter how many times I punched it. That was one tough clown.

And I thought on another thread you said you had never been in a fight in your life.

--Brant

disillusioned

[George H. Smith]

I don't know why this memory occurred to me now,

Sure it's a memory George.

But why don't you continue where it all started, back at the beginning. Tell us all about your childhood, your relationship with your mother and father, childhood friends and experiences. Were you raised well or did you have problems with your parents? Were you a bully, or were you bullied?--Does your exaggerated "alpha male" personality extend from the intellectual to the physical sphere? Did you have friends or were you a loner? Have you always been so prone to foaming fits of anger when your intellectual superiority was challenged, or is this a later development? Were you generally surrounded by intellectual equals, or was it as it is now, by sycophants or those who otherwise lack the ability to challenge you?

Shayne

I would love to tell you my life story, but all I can think of now is that stupid clown.

Do you have an air valve, btw?

Ghs

[George H. Smith]

Aside from this generic motive, the only thing that occurs to me relates to a memory from my early childhood. My parents gave me one of those large inflatable clowns that was weighted at the bottom, so it would pop back up no matter how hard it was punched.

For some reason, I could not resist punching this clown again and again and again; and I would laugh each time it popped back up with that stupid grin on its face, as if begging to be punched again. I knew, of course, that none of my fun would be possible if the clown was not full of air (hot air was not specifically required), but the clown never lost a bit of air, no matter how many times I punched it. That was one tough clown.

And I thought on another thread you said you had never been in a fight in your life.

--Brant

disillusioned

When I finally tired of punching the clown, I deflated it, rolled it up, and threw it in my closet.

If only real-life clowns were so easily disposed of after we tire of punching them.

Ghs

[George H. Smith]

My psychopathic motives? Well, there is my Toohey-like envy of your Roark-like abilities -- that much goes without saying.

Aside from this generic motive, the only thing that occurs to me relates to a memory from my early childhood. My parents gave me one of those large inflatable clowns that was weighted at the bottom, so it would pop back up no matter how hard it was punched.

For some reason, I could not resist punching this clown again and again and again; and I would laugh each time it popped back up with that stupid grin on its face, as if begging to be punched again. I knew, of course, that none of my fun would be possible if the clown was not full of air (hot air was not specifically required), but the clown never lost a bit of air, no matter how many times I punched it. That was one tough clown.

I don't know why this memory occurred to me now, but it might have some connection to the psychopathic motives that you so keenly detected in my replies to you.

Ghs

Oh, there is one other motive, though I don't know if I would call it psychopathic. It does relate to Shayne's earlier remark about my groupies, however.

For years I have been hoping to convert at least a dozen young and attractive O'ist females to anarchism so that they will become devoted members of the Ghs Groupies. Then I plan to gather them together, along with myself as the only male, into an anarchistic ashram. The key doctrine will be that only I am able to father the brilliant O'ist anarchists that will be needed for a future society that is both rational and free.

Unfortunately, my master plan has not worked out very well. True, yesterday I did help an elderly lady who lives nearby shovel snow from her sidewalk so she could walk her poodle, and, true, she did invite me in afterwards for cup of a tea, but I don't think this constitutes progress towards my ashram.

Ghs

[Brant Gaede]

My psychopathic motives? Well, there is my Toohey-like envy of your Roark-like abilities -- that much goes without saying.

Aside from this generic motive, the only thing that occurs to me relates to a memory from my early childhood. My parents gave me one of those large inflatable clowns that was weighted at the bottom, so it would pop back up no matter how hard it was punched.

For some reason, I could not resist punching this clown again and again and again; and I would laugh each time it popped back up with that stupid grin on its face, as if begging to be punched again. I knew, of course, that none of my fun would be possible if the clown was not full of air (hot air was not specifically required), but the clown never lost a bit of air, no matter how many times I punched it. That was one tough clown.

I don't know why this memory occurred to me now, but it might have some connection to the psychopathic motives that you so keenly detected in my replies to you.

Ghs

Oh, there is one other motive, though I don't know if I would call it psychopathic. It does relate to Shayne's earlier remark about my groupies, however.

For years I have been hoping to convert at least a dozen young and attractive O'ist females to anarchism so that they will become devoted members of the Ghs Groupies. Then I plan to gather them together, along with myself as the only male, into an anarchistic ashram. The key doctrine will be that only I am able to father the brilliant O'ist anarchists that will be needed for a future society that is both rational and free.

Unfortunately, my master plan has not worked out very well. True, yesterday I did help an elderly lady who lives nearby shovel snow from her sidewalk so she could walk her poodle, and, true, she did invite me in afterwards for cup of a tea, but I don't think this constitutes progress towards my ashram.

Ghs

Obviously you've left no room for me to be a GHS Groupie.

--Brant

it's interesting that Shayne has written a most important book; he didn't miss the boat Ayn Rand did

Edited February 3, 2011 by Brant Gaede

[sjw]

it's interesting that Shayne has written a most important book; he didn't miss the boat Ayn Rand did

You know that's not my assessment of Rand, it's your own, as you posted several posts back when you said only Locke was important.

Was Philip right about you Brant? Are you a drunk? Or just George's pet?

Shayne

[Brant Gaede]

it's interesting that Shayne has written a most important book; he didn't miss the boat Ayn Rand did

You know that's not my assessment of Rand, it's your own, as you posted several posts back when you said only Locke was important.

Was Philip right about you Brant? Are you a drunk? Or just George's pet?

I've recently adopted a policy of not replying to your posts. Obviously, I've been sloppy with that, but it's fixable.

--Brant

Edited February 3, 2011 by Brant Gaede

[Selene]

Maybe we can all chip in and buy Shayne a one way ticket to Malawi...

[George H. Smith]

Oh, there is one other motive, though I don't know if I would call it psychopathic. It does relate to Shayne's earlier remark about my groupies, however.

For years I have been hoping to convert at least a dozen young and attractive O'ist females to anarchism so that they will become devoted members of the Ghs Groupies. Then I plan to gather them together, along with myself as the only male, into an anarchistic ashram. The key doctrine will be that only I am able to father the brilliant O'ist anarchists that will be needed for a future society that is both rational and free.

Unfortunately, my master plan has not worked out very well. True, yesterday I did help an elderly lady who lives nearby shovel snow from her sidewalk so she could walk her poodle, and, true, she did invite me in afterwards for cup of a tea, but I don't think this constitutes progress towards my ashram.

Ghs

Obviously you've left no room for me to be a GHS Groupie.

You can be a Ghs Groupie if you like, but you still cannot become a member of my ashram. I would admit other males to my ashram if I could trust them not to touch my female groupies, but having been a male myself for nearly 62 years now, I know better than to trust other males. I don't even trust myself -- but then I don't have to. It will be my ashram, so I can do anything I want.

Ghs

[sjw]

I've recently adopted a policy of not replying to your posts. Obviously, I've been sloppy with that, but it's fixable.

--Brant

Yeah, I got a copy of that one. You can be even nastier than George it seems. Probably because he's more like me than you in terms of being able to handle insults and still get along in a debate. He dishes it out and he takes it.

I'm one who doesn't mind a few insults here and there so long as there's honest debate along with it. Good intentions aren't everything but they count for far more than whether someone hurt my feelings.

George is the most well-read of anyone at OL, it'd be interesting to hear a historical perspective on what constitutes a civilized discourse. America in many corners seems to be the land of the touchy. Would you ever hear such pointed remarks as these spoken by US politicians to each other?:

Shayne

[Brant Gaede]

To continue, Shayne: George and I go back at least ten years on the Internet and I'd say we're semi-Internet friends. I thought he blew up the situation a short while back, and I got really mad, but he did a decent recovery. It's true enough that both you and George can easily descend to a level of repartee I don't like, accept or tolerate very well. My not replying to your posts doesn't mean I don't read or consider them, only I don't want to reply to the type of replies to my replies you frequently come up with. I'm not into mosh pits of personal vituperation and sometimes your replies are unjustifiably full of sharp edges and barbed wire. I'm not talking about the parts with substance, but various forms of ad hominem assault, frequently implicit as expressions of intellectual contempt. I mean, wtf was that about my drinking? I drink after the sun goes down, only, and only to tolerate my 96 yo mother who has lost most of her mind to vascular dementia. I've made quite a few posts under the influence: some very good and some very bad and many soon deleted. None so far today.

Another thing I can hardly stand is you misrepresenting something I said just to take a swipe at me, like that crap about what you said I said about Locke. I didn't mention Rand for she is in the Lockean tradition. To be fair, that's objectively a quibble. I don't understand it to be your general policy.

So you got that post I deleted and rewrote. I deleted it because it wasn't really right, true or fair. I'm truly sorry you saw it and I apologize to you for it. I don't get this stuff via email. I always come to the site. I don't subsequently have any copy and I suggest you delete it--or print it out and ask me for an autograph some day. Yes, I can be nastier than George. There's an innocence about George that's innocence all the way down. It's not lost by mere anger and name-calling. I know how to go for the throat. George doesn't even know or care to know where the throat is. If you thought that post you got was from drinking, it wasn't, it was from someone who was taught to kill at 20, taught to heal at 21, got on-the-job experience in both when 22-23. I got a laugh a while back when I read that the army had discontinued bayonet drills: "KILL!" "Kill!" "Kill!" Whom do they think they're kidding?

--Brant

[sjw]

I'm sorry Brant, the drinking remark was over the top, it wasn't intended in a mean-spirited way but I can see that's not how it looks. I never intentionally misrepresent you (or anyone else), but on several occasions I have unintentionally misinterpreted what you wrote. I didn't misinterpret to take a swipe, I took a swipe because of what I (evidently) didn't read correctly. Sorry.

Shayne

[caroljane]

I'm sorry Brant, the drinking remark was over the top, it wasn't intended in a mean-spirited way but I can see that's not how it looks. I never intentionally misrepresent you (or anyone else), but on several occasions I have unintentionally misinterpreted what you wrote. I didn't misinterpret to take a swipe, I took a swipe because of what I (evidently) didn't read correctly. Sorry.

Shayne

Sorry to elbow in Shayne, but whatever Brant drinks, I'll have what he's having.

(Except if it's rum, I hate rum)

You are all great big grownup men, now get back to your Locke and Hume and take out the garbage.

Edited February 4, 2011 by daunce lynam

[Brant Gaede]

I'm sorry Brant, the drinking remark was over the top, it wasn't intended in a mean-spirited way but I can see that's not how it looks. I never intentionally misrepresent you (or anyone else), but on several occasions I have unintentionally misinterpreted what you wrote. I didn't misinterpret to take a swipe, I took a swipe because of what I (evidently) didn't read correctly. Sorry.

Shayne

Sorry to elbow in Shayne, but whatever Brant drinks, I'll have what he's having.

Green tea and Creamy Chocolate Ensure.

--Brant

[caroljane]

I'm sorry Brant, the drinking remark was over the top, it wasn't intended in a mean-spirited way but I can see that's not how it looks. I never intentionally misrepresent you (or anyone else), but on several occasions I have unintentionally misinterpreted what you wrote. I didn't misinterpret to take a swipe, I took a swipe because of what I (evidently) didn't read correctly. Sorry.

Shayne

Sorry to elbow in Shayne, but whatever Brant drinks, I'll have what he's having.

Green tea and Creamy Chocolate Ensure.

--Brant

Yessss!! My favourite!!

[Dennis Hardin]

. . . Yes, I can be nastier than George. There's an innocence about George that's innocence all the way down. It's not lost by mere anger and name-calling. I know how to go for the throat. George doesn't even know or care to know where the throat is. If you thought that post you got was from drinking, it wasn't, it was from someone who was taught to kill at 20, taught to heal at 21, got on-the-job experience in both when 22-23. I got a laugh a while back when I read that the army had discontinued bayonet drills: "KILL!" "Kill!" "Kill!" Whom do they think they're kidding?

--Brant

[George H. Smith]

There's an innocence about George that's innocence all the way down. It's not lost by mere anger and name-calling. I know how to go for the throat. George doesn't even know or care to know where the throat is. If you thought that post you got was from drinking, it wasn't, it was from someone who was taught to kill at 20, taught to heal at 21, got on-the-job experience in both when 22-23. I got a laugh a while back when I read that the army had discontinued bayonet drills: "KILL!" "Kill!" "Kill!" Whom do they think they're kidding?

You have lost me here.

First, the only time I have gotten angry on OL was on the plagiarism thread, after I had repeatedly asked readers to withhold advice and criticism until I had a chance to explain the story more fully, but got such advice and criticism anyway. After a while I got angry and resorted to the "fuck you" mode rather than explain yet again why such comments were premature and unwanted.

Surely you don't think I have been angry at Shayne. What a waste of healthy anger that would be.

Second, when you speak of going for the throat, I assume you mean this metaphorically, not literally. If so, I fail to see how your military training in how to kill people has any bearing on the polemical skill in question.

Ghs

[Brant Gaede]

Like I said . . .-- I think George's enormous brainpower buffers him from a certain level of human psychological reality that cannot mentally hurt him for it puts him outside the loop. Ayn Rand was like that. If I tried to go for his throat--this is all metaphorical--I'd miss it every time. This going for the throat refers to my mindset in certain situations, not a necessary actual consequence of anything I might say. Nothing to do, of course, with my very rusty military skills (I could still amputate your leg, I think).

--Brant

edit: sorry I didn't directly address you, George; I'm too busy getting breakfast up to set it just right

Edited February 4, 2011 by Brant Gaede

[George H. Smith]

Like I said . . .-- I think George's enormous brainpower buffers him from a certain level of human psychological reality that cannot mentally hurt him for it puts him outside the loop. Ayn Rand was like that. If I tried to go for his throat--this is all metaphorical--I'd miss it every time. This going for the throat refers to my mindset in certain situations, not a necessary actual consequence of anything I might say. Nothing to do, of course, with my very rusty military skills (I could still amputate your leg, I think).

--Brant

In order to go for the metaphorical throats of intellectuals, or wannabe intellectuals, you need to understand their mindset first. I understand that mindset very well. This was a matter of professional survival for me. When you lack even a high school diploma and make your living competing for scarce resources with highly credentialed academics, you either adapt by learning how your competitors think and how much they really know, or you die. You must also be willing to learn from them, when appropriate.

When I have been confronted with various self-proclaimed authorities in either philosophy or science, I have sometimes gone for their throats. More than a few have quit an elist or an internet forum as a result.

Ghs

[Brant Gaede]

Jesus. I forgot all about academic warfare! I should have consulted with Robert Campbell!

--Brant

[sjw]

When I have been confronted with various self-proclaimed authorities in either philosophy or science, I have sometimes gone for their throats. More than a few have quit an elist or an internet forum as a result.

I suppose the real difference between what Brant did and what you have been doing isn't so much that he was better at attacking me, it was that I actually have some respect for his character and opinions. When I first started interacting with you at OL, I had a good deal of respect for the person I thought you were, but as I have learned who you actually are, the respect has gone down considerably. I still respect your broad knowledge of past thinkers (but not your particular interpretations), and Brant seems to think that you have considerable intelligence (I haven't seen it personally but I'll go with him on that), but I have no trust in your character.

You're kind of an overgrown hoodlum. An experienced, intelligent one with some redeeming qualities, but the essential character is that of a hoodlum. So when you attack me, all I see is a juvenile punk throwing stones from a distance, too cowardly to have an actual debate. All of your protestations to the contrary fall completely flat with me. All I see is some punk off in the distance, too cowardly to approach, and when I point this out he yells "You're not worthy of facing in debate, so nyah nyah..." Right.

So no, no cowardly hoodlum will be scaring me off of OL. I might retire out of boredom though.

Shayne

[sjw]

Well, this has been quite a flop. I actually was interested in arguments against my position, not an off-the-wall social event.

Sure would be nice to have an Objectivist (or other explicitly pro-reason) forum where banter and posts not somehow aimed at truth regarding the subject in question were relegated to different threads. But, that might mean that this thread would contain only perhaps half a dozen of my posts, maybe a half dozen or so others, and none of George's.

Of course, who would visit such a forum? To actually take truth seriously is probably too boring for most people, right? Reason isn't popular, truth isn't popular, and liberty isn't popular. Coincidence?

Shayne

[George H. Smith]

Well, this has been quite a flop. I actually was interested in arguments against my position, not an off-the-wall social event.

Sure would be nice to have an Objectivist (or other explicitly pro-reason) forum where banter and posts not somehow aimed at truth regarding the subject in question were relegated to different threads. But, that might mean that this thread would contain only perhaps half a dozen of my posts, maybe a half dozen or so others, and none of George's.

Of course, who would visit such a forum? To actually take truth seriously is probably too boring for most people, right? Reason isn't popular, truth isn't popular, and liberty isn't popular. Coincidence?

Shayne

Post or repost your essential arguments against anarchism, and I will deal with them. If you are too much of a coward to take even this minimal step, then stop your whining.

I sure hope your "technical" and "substantive" arguments against anarchism are not those mentioned in your headline post on this thread. That is one godawful mess. But if you can present nothing better and would like to undergo a public crucifixion on that post alone, just let me know. Since you are bringing your own cross, I will not charge you for the nails.

So put up or shut up, wimp.

Ghs

[Brant Gaede]

If I had a hammer . . .

--Brant