Beck and Religion

[DavidMcK]

Here's a link that describes the rally that Mike is attending, and it really bothers me. How Capitalism and religion got intertwined is beyond my comprehension (many of the New Deal types came from the Christian religion at the beginning of the 20th Century). This evokes hordes of Christian soldiers marching as to war for me.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/28/at-rally-beck-positions-himself-as-new-leader-for-christian-conservatives/?hpt=C1

[Mike Hansen]

Here's a link that describes the rally that Mike is attending, and it really bothers me. How Capitalism and religion got intertwined is beyond my comprehension (many of the New Deal types came from the Christian religion at the beginning of the 20th Century). This evokes hordes of Christian soldiers marching as to war for me.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/28/at-rally-beck-positions-himself-as-new-leader-for-christian-conservatives/?hpt=C1

Yep.

I'm trudging through one of Beck's books, Arguing with Idiots, which begins with a chapter on the defense of capitalism. His 'defense' is good in a few parts but just plain sucks for most of the chapter. Despite all the great points he makes about the incredible economic progress of the U.S.A., he completely FAILS when he says,

"The truth is that capitalism is neither good nor evil, it just is.... But what capitalism can do is foster an environment where those with the will to succeed have a better chance of achieving their dreams."

As if freedom is "neither good nor evil."

And then, the mormon Beck enters the fray:

"We do have an obligation to help... [to help the poor, the weakest, etc.]"

Three paragraphs later:

"Any economic system will inevitably fail if individuals stop caring about the welfare of others."

As if caring about others would never happen if we weren't obliged to do so.

Gah... he's trying to combine capitalism and mormonism/christianity... what he really needs to check his freakin' premises!

Mike

[9thdoctor]

http://reason.com/blog/2010/08/28/reasontv-what-we-saw-at-the-gl

I'm looking forward to MSK's report on his experience. From the looks of it, I'd have had a dreadful time. Can't stand the sound of Sarah Palin.

[9thdoctor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5Qn3Nwb6nAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAZMU_MkFxg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJuN5VMogJs

Nnnnnneed mmmmmore Ddddddeuteronomy????????

How about we all settle on more Leviticus instead? I think there's less stoning in that one.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Ninth Doctor

[kiaer.ts]

Two fridays ago Beck had a born again Christian caller who told him that as much as he respected Beck he didn't listen to him for preaching and that Beck was losing him as a listener. Beck hung up the call, said how brave the caller was, and said that basically he is on a mission, and that he didn't lose listeners when he switched from comedy to politics, and he doesn't care if he loses listeners now when he switches to a spiritual focus.

A week or two before he get all choked up describing how we live in the end times, and said he was going to have a big announcement the tuesday after labor day. Missed what that big announcement was.

I am a big fan of Beck's and think he has done immeasurable good, but I do not have faith in the man. I do not have faith in the man.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

If anyone is worried about Beck promoting a theocracy, here is a program he just presented.

He stated outright that when church and state mix, it always ends up bad--as in mass murder.

His view is that you learn principles in church (or whatever your moral authority is if you are an atheist) so you can govern yourself on most everything. That way, the state merely governs on protecting your right to do that.

Here are his own words:

Glenn Beck Show - September 24, 2010

Mixing Big Government and Religion

When you take a big government and combine it with the church to get people to do things that the state wants you to do- it always ends in mass death. Mixing big government with religion always ends badly..and tonight you will hear from someone who has been through it first-hand and believes we are dangerously close to heading down a similar path- Kitty Werthmann, who lived under Nazi rule in Austria. Also joining Glenn tonight is Pastor Laurence White and "The Confirmation" author Ralph Reed.

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This message has always been clear to me with Beck.

I think he focused on Nazi Germany instead of, say, an Islamist dictatorship or earlier theocracies because he wanted to stay on the broad message and not come out swinging at any particular religion.

Michael

[kiaer.ts]

I am probably, beside Michael, Beck's biggest fan here. I have recorded over 20 of his shows and distributed copies of them in the last year and a half. Yes, he says lots of good things. Then he says lots of batshit things, and the batshit is getting worse. I now religious people who went to the 8/28 "event" and who came home wondering what he was at. I won't stop watching him. But I am growing weary and leery.

[Selene]

I am probably, beside Michael, Beck's biggest fan here. I have recorded over 20 of his shows and distributed copies of them in the last year and a half. Yes, he says lots of good things. Then he says lots of batshit things, and the batshit is getting worse. I now religious people who went to the 8/28 "event" and who came home wondering what he was at. I won't stop watching him. But I am growing weary and leery.

Ted:

I have been a Beck fan for six (6) years since discovering him on a local station in Virginia. I think I am even with you two (2)! Shall we just say we are the big three (3) Beckites!

LOL.

So how does it feel to be a stalking worm? I am feeling very larvae-like because I have not matured to your lofty state of being a "persistent" stalking worm. But you know how it is, when you are second, you just try harder!

Adam

[kiaer.ts]

I am probably, beside Michael, Beck's biggest fan here. I have recorded over 20 of his shows and distributed copies of them in the last year and a half. Yes, he says lots of good things. Then he says lots of batshit things, and the batshit is getting worse. I now religious people who went to the 8/28 "event" and who came home wondering what he was at. I won't stop watching him. But I am growing weary and leery.

Ted:

I have been a Beck fan for six (6) years since discovering him on a local station in Virginia. I think I am even with you two (2)! Shall we just say we are the big three (3) Beckites!

LOL.

So how does it feel to be a stalking worm? I am feeling very larvae-like because I have not matured to your lofty state of being a "persistent" stalking worm. But you know how it is, when you are second, you just try harder!

Adam

"Stalking worm"? What the hell are you talking about?

I really don't think Michael is as big a fan of Beck as me, although he went to the rally and I only heard about it from friends, I have recorded many of his shows on DVD and have distributed them to friends and allies. I will grant you equal status only if you can match us in actions.

"Stalking worm?" WtF?

Edited September 26, 2010 by Ted Keer

[Selene]

Ted:

Shayne refers to you as a worm and a stalker

Adam

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Ted,

I think Adam was joking.

EDIT: My post crossed with Adam's.

Michael

[kiaer.ts]

Ted:

Shayne refers to you as a worm and a stalker

Adam

Ah, LOL! I haven't actually read a post of his since his response to me here calling me insane, which I suppose I was, for answering him as if he were capable of civil discourse. His friendly act followed by calling you an asshole out of the blue for something he has imagined that you must be thinking fooled me once - shame on him. That last attempt was the second time. Shame on me.

I find it funny that I called Shayne a whipped dog and the next day Dennis posted his thread on the damged psyche of the Borderline Personality. I think he is damaged goods. Even if you think he is corrigible, you guys are spoiling that tar baby by taking him seriously and talking to him. Spare the rod and spoil the child.

[Selene]

Ted:

He is a reasonably intelligent individual, as are most folks here. I, as you know, enjoy the banter and the argumentation. The ad hominem stuff just makes no impression on me.

I have been outspoken since I was 8 or 9. Hell, when I was an administrator in the Transportation Administration of NY City, I was called a communist fascist one afternoon by an orthodox Jewish engineer in the Brooklyn section. We later became good friends, but the heat of the debate on Israel and the Soviet Union pushed him to explode.

At any rate, you seem to know him from the other on line fora, but to me, I am amazed at how poorly he has categorized me. I cannot imagine him functioning in the business world with such poor people skills.

Adam

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Ted,

Shayne has an excellent mind.

Poor people skills, but an excellent mind.

It is something to be cherished, just like yours is.

Michael

[Selene]

Ok Michael:

This is beginning to get a little scary...lol.

The two (2) posts were within a minute of each other!

Adam

[kiaer.ts]

I grant you he is intelligent. Although nowhere near enough to impress me. And I really bemoan the loss of the discussion on the Patent thread I linked to, where I had what I think are some very interesting things to say. But I am not so lacking for stimulation that I find putting up with his endless silly crap worthwhile. I much more value people who tell me interesting things, like Ellen Stuttle, and Robert Campbell, or people who offer something other than endless Objectionist complaints about the world. I don't remember SJW posting, for instance, one single link of interest. And I think by far the greater loss in my ignoring him is his.

Edited September 26, 2010 by Ted Keer

[Rich Engle]

If Objectivists don't figure out how to deal with people that express some form of spirituality, they are going to dry up and die even more than they already have.

These knee-jerking knuckleheads (and you know who you are) start up reactive-style the second they confront anything other than their particular brand of O-Atheism (and that is not a wide menu, mostly it involves being a sniffy prick). Well, opinions differ (and please, please start up on logical relativism or some other funk, OK?), objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear, sorry for your bad time. Running around with a stick up your ass about religion (which most of these ding-dongs understand no more past their own traumatic experiences) is NOT, repeat, NOT going to get you any traction. If you want everyone else to conform to your specific ideas, guess what, you are going to have an army of ONE.

It's getting to the point in these circles where the O-ists (the ones that just are so fucking stuck on this thing) are becoming even bigger assholes than the Fundamentalists. And that is one heck of a feat.

Between that and now this Shayne thing (which is running rampant throughout threads). WTF? Talk about wondering why people don't take things seriously.

Christ Almighty, indeed. Monkeys, and monkey-related activities.

rde

Considering renting a stump puller to take out all these idiot stump-preachers.

Edited September 26, 2010 by Rich Engle

[kiaer.ts]

If Objectivists don't figure out how to deal with people that express some form of spirituality, they are going to dry up and die even more than they already have.

These knee-jerking knuckleheads (and you know who you are) start up reactive-style the second they confront anything other than their particular brand of O-Atheism (and that is not a wide menu, mostly it involves being a sniffy prick). Well, sorry, opinions differ, objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear, sorry for your bad time. Running around with a stick up your ass about religion (which most of these ding-dongs understand no more past their own traumatic experiences) is NOT, repeat, NOT going to get you any traction. If you want everyone else to conform to your specific ideas, guess what, you are going to have an army of ONE.

It's getting to the point in these circles where the O-ists (the ones that just are so fucking stuck on this thing) are becoming even bigger assholes than the Fundamentalists. And that is one heck of a feat.

Between that and now this Shayne thing (which is running rampant throughout threads). WTF? Talk about wondering why people don't take things seriously.

Christ Almighty, indeed. Monkeys, and monkey-related activities.

rde

Considering renting a stump puller to take out all these idiot stump-preachers.

Just what sort of spirituality is Shayne preaching now?