Buying Books Online -- Tricks and Advice

[Philip Coates]

I buy a lot of books online, more than one a week on average over many years and have been since I started teaching and had to select readers, textbooks, reference material. For schools, for myself, for book discussion groups I belong to, etc.

I have a number of insights on the who, what, why, when, where, and how of this.

But, instead of posting them at the outset, I thought I'd first ask if others who buy books this way regularly have experience to share. And then, if there is some substantive information, I'll participate in the 'trade' by taking the time to write up and share my own experiences and tips.

(I'm not asking what are your recommended or favorite books - that would fall under another thread which already exists here, several in fact.)

Edited August 20, 2010 by Philip Coates

[DavidMcK]

I recently bought a 'Nook' (the Barnes and Noble e-reader) so I'm just now exploring e-books. The recently published best sellers are just as expensive as the paperbacks, but since I don't buy these I've found free e-books on the internet. So far I've downloaded a number of economic texts from the Ludwig von Mises web site; Anthem, the (nearly) complete works of Shakespeare for $0.95, a price hard to beat. I'm still looking e.g. for N. Branden's books as well as others. Google has some e-books for free as well as other web sites, but I'm open to suggestions from someone who is further along the learning curve.

[merjet]

Since I can borrow books from two very well stocked college libraries, I don't buy books very often. When I do shop online, I check Abe Books and Alibris in addition to Amazon.

[kiaer.ts]

I purchase about 90% of my used books thru abebooks.com. Some 90% of the remainder come mostly from Powell's Books of Portland Oregon, The Strand Bookstore of New York City, and Amazon.com. I order from alibris and zubal books directly on the rare occasion.

Abebooks is a clearing house for used book sellers. I begin by searching there, and also Google book's "all sellers" link. Google links to Amazon and Alibris and to some other sellers who do not list on ABE.

Powell's Books and the Strand offer the benefit of discounted shipping rates for additional books in the same order, usually $1 per additional book, instead of the normal $3-$6 per from most sellers. The Strand does not list on ABE books. And Powell's books can be searched for thru ABE, but are about 50c cheaper per title if ordered directly from Powell's. If I am not in a hurry, and Powell's or the Strand has the title at a marginally better rate for shipping in a bulk order then I will save the book in my basket until I have several books to purchase. This runs the risk of the book being bought by another customer - so you have to consider that as a risk.

Powell's and the Strand also carry new books, and review copies and remainders at steep discounts - often comparable to Amazon, if not better. Strand often has review copies for sale before a new book is released.

I detest buying books with highlighting or underlining or notes in the margin. So I will consider paying a few dollars more for a book marked "very good" over one that says "may include marks" to the text.

ABE books allows you to send a special notice to the bookseller when you place the order. I always add "please cancel the order if the text is marked." That way you do not have to pay return shipping if the text has underlining which was not noted on a good or fair copy. I have had half a dozen books purchases simply credited back without the seller expecting a return when I complained that the text was marked.

Overseas shipping costs mean that I will rarely order from another country, but some rare titles are only available that way. You can often get text books very cheaply from India and sometimes China. I have bought books for under $20 from India which were available elswhere for only over $100. The only drawback is that shipping usually takes 60-90 days, and sometimes even more.

If you are lazy, just go with ABE. You will get the lowest rate more than 90% of the time, and they have a 30 day return policy.

Oh, and sometimes you can find a local bookseller whose books are listed in ABEbooks which you can visit directly, so that you can avoid shipping, assuming your purchase is big enough and the trip is cost effective.

Finally, if you are in NYC, check out Housing Works Cafe in SOHO. Their prices are always below the Strand's or any other sellers. But they do not catalog their works, search for them, sell them on line, or place them on hold. They have advertised sales of 30% off on the first weekend of the month, and you will easily find more books you will want to buy than you can carry.

PHIL, if you have anything to add beyond what I just said you will be making it up.

Edited August 21, 2010 by Ted Keer

[kiaer.ts]

Housing Works Bookstore http://www.housingworks.org/social-enterprise/bookstore-cafe/ NYC

Strand Books http://www.strandbooks.com/ NYC & mailorder

Powell's Books http://www.powells.com/ Portland OR and mailorder

http://www.abebooks.com/

[Philip Coates]

> PHIL, if you have anything to add beyond what I just said you will be making it up. [Ted]

Now, that's funny!

More seriously though, Ted, you have provided so much information that I have intellectual indigestion, so I'll have to wait till tomorrow to respond.

[Backlighting]

www.half.com is owned by ebay and offers new & used books at low prices. Also a good place to sell-no fee for listing, only when the item sells.

Edited August 21, 2010 by Las Vegas

[Philip Coates]

Subject: Ebooks

> Google has some e-books for free as well as other web sites, but I'm open to suggestions from someone who is further along the learning curve.

David, try gutenberg.org. It is a massive repository. I don't know that you will need to go much further. Beyond that, googling, for example, "ebook jane eyre" as well as "jane eyre" will give you several ebooks.

I got kindle for the PC as the sofware is free. Then, as an experiment, I bought two 99 cent old sci-fi anthologies just for one or two stories in each.

Unsatisfactory: it was impossible to search them and worse, no table of contents + go directly to a page, so I couldn't get to story number six which is the only one I bought it for without paging through stories 1-5. Since I find paper books convenient and like to mark them up, dogear them, I will -not- buy a Nook or Kindle or other "ebook reader" until the technology (hard and soft) improves in three broad areas:

i) indexing and TOC, ii) searching, iii) greater ease of notetaking, marginal notations, printing of same.

Portability is less important to me (as is cost, since I've already largely built my library). If I were going overseas or a "road warrior" needing to travel light, it would be a very different situation.

Anyone else feel the same way? What do others think? Any 'war stories', good or horrific, with ebooks or ebook readers?

Edited August 21, 2010 by Philip Coates

[Philip Coates]

Continued: It may be a while before the technology improves enough. Even in the area of 'search' on the PC or the Mac, certain very basic things are not done properly.

[kiaer.ts]

I do not like reading on a computer screen, so I would never buy a Kindle type device. I usually print out long documents to read.

Gutenberg is good, but the texts are not usually conveniently formatted. I read the first chapters of The Man Who Laughs from a Gutenberg download, and then decided to buy the NBI reprint used for $20.

Check out Gutenberg Australia. It has texts such as the complete Lovecraft that are not available elsewhere due to copyright law differences.

And Google books has many complete texts as pdf's if the book is in the public domain.

[Philip Coates]

> I order from alibris and zubal books [website not exist or not working] directly on the rare occasion.

I googled zubal books. Their website is inactive or non-existent.

> I purchase about 90% of my used books thru abebooks.com. Some 90% of the remainder come mostly from Powell's Books of Portland Oregon...

I use amazon first to see a full description and the reader reviews. I will order from them unless the price seems high, but I'll still check our alibris and abebooks out of curiosity and because I have a frequent purchaser coupon at alibris.

> also Google book's "all sellers" link.

I've checked out this and other sources than "the three A's" but have often found them considerably higher priced than those three. But you've given me the idea for several books I just have been unable to find at all - and very much want such as certain plays of Rattigan - to go outside my normal three.

> Powell's Books and the Strand offer the benefit of discounted shipping rates.....for shipping in a bulk order then I will save the book in my basket until I have several books to purchase.

Good tips. For me, though, price is not an overriding consideration if I have to look at too many websites with the same book just for a little bit lower price.

> I detest buying books with highlighting or underlining or notes in the margin. So I will consider paying a few dollars more for a book marked "very good" over one that says "may include marks" to the text. ABE books allows you to send a special notice to the bookseller when you place the order. I always add "please cancel the order if the text is marked."

That doesn't bother me. My pet peeve is if the binding is creased or cracked. That means, with the heavy use and underlining and dog earing I do, the pages are likely to come apart and fall out or at least I'm treating it with kid gloves to avoid that.

So, like you, I read the descriptions very carefully and tend to buy 'very good' unless it is an unimportant ormarginal book.

Since the start of summer, I have bought more than 25 books -- math, science, history, light fiction, literature, poetry, philosophy etc. -- most of them from alibris and amazon. I have had a number of those with binding problems, when I tried to save two or three books with 'good'. I especially found the problem with alibris rather than amazon.

Ted, I'm not clear why you prefer abebooks. I normally check all of the three A's for each book and have found (marginally, it's true) better prices and or selection with amazon and alibris. Sometimes all three they have exactly the same four or five 'lowest priced' books of very good quality, but very seldom.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Philip Coates

[kiaer.ts]

> I order from alibris and zubal books [website not exist or not working] directly on the rare occasion.

I googled zubal books. Their website is inactive or non-existent.

> I purchase about 90% of my used books thru abebooks.com. Some 90% of the remainder come mostly from Powell's Books of Portland Oregon...

I use amazon first to see a full description and the reader reviews. I will order from them unless the price seems high, but I'll still check our alibris and abebooks out of curiosity and because I have a frequent purchaser coupon at alibris.

> also Google book's "all sellers" link.

I've checked out this and other sources than "the three A's" but have often found them considerably higher priced than those three. But you've given me the idea for several books I just have been unable to find at all - and very much want such as certain plays of Rattigan - to go outside my normal three.

> Powell's Books and the Strand offer the benefit of discounted shipping rates.....for shipping in a bulk order then I will save the book in my basket until I have several books to purchase.

Good tips. For me, though, price is not an overriding consideration if I have to look at too many websites with the same book just for a little bit lower price.

> I detest buying books with highlighting or underlining or notes in the margin. So I will consider paying a few dollars more for a book marked "very good" over one that says "may include marks" to the text. ABE books allows you to send a special notice to the bookseller when you place the order. I always add "please cancel the order if the text is marked."

That doesn't bother me. My pet peeve is if the binding is creased or cracked. That means, with the heavy use and underlining and dog earing I do, the pages are likely to come apart and fall out or at least I'm treating it with kid gloves to avoid that.

So, like you, I read the descriptions very carefully and tend to buy 'very good' unless it is an unimportant ormarginal book.

Since the start of summer, I have bought more than 25 books -- math, science, history, light fiction, literature, poetry, philosophy etc. -- most of them from alibris and amazon. I have had a number of those with binding problems, when I tried to save two or three books with 'good'. I especially found the problem with alibris rather than amazon.

Ted, I'm not clear why you prefer abebooks. I normally check all of the three A's for each book and have found (marginally, it's true) better prices and or selection with amazon and alibris. Sometimes all three they have exactly the same four or five 'lowest priced' books of very good quality, but very seldom.

I do not buy books marked as cracked or creased.

I usually know all about the title either by author or subject and find the Amazon reviews unnecessary in most cases.

Abebooks has by far the best selection.

If you do not own Cardinal Mercier's Manual of Scholastic Philosophy, you should. Do an experiment and tell me which of the three A's gives the best deal for the two volumes. And buy it.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Ted Keer

[Barbara Branden]

I resolved all my problems of buying books online by buying a Kindle.

I decided I had to get a Kindle when I realized that my bulging bookcases soon would require an apartment of their own if I continued buying books, But in advance of buying a Kindle, I was concerned that i might miss the experience of holding and reading physical, three-dimensional books. In fact, I did not miss it at all. I have even bought some of my favorite books, which I already owned and which I reread every few years, for my Kindle, since I soon preferred to do my reading there.

Some of the reasons for my love affair with my Kindle:

E-Books are substantially cheaper than their bookstore counterparts; one rarely pays more than $9.99 for a Kindle book, often much less (although it appears that prices are rising slightly, as are all prices).

A great many books are free, particularly among but not limited to the classics. For instance, , the price of the complete works of Charles Dickens or Shakespeare, or Tolstoy or Victor Hugo, the price of the Odyssey or the Iliad -- is $.00.

When one orders a book, it usually appears on one's Kindle within minutes, sans the cost of postage.

Type sizes are easily adjustable.

Kindle has an excellent telephone help service, I've found the people there to be very helpful, patient, and knowledgeable.

I take my Kindle almost everywhere. (It fits easily into a purse.) I thus avoid the frustration, while waiting, say, in a a doctor's office, of being reduced to reading a 1970's magazine article on breast feeding. And for business or personal trips, it beats lugging three or four heavy books and then deciding none of them is what I want to read. My Kindle at present has about 350 books (it will hold 35,000) so there is always something I want to read. But it not, the Kindle Store is a button or two away.

Upon request, Kindle will send a free sample chapter of any book one is interested in; one does not have to buy a book despite having little or no knowledge of its content. One has a means of knowing, ahead of making a purchase, if it suits one's interests or not. If you then decide you want the book, you buy it; if not, you simply delete the sample.

The Kindle enables you to bookmark pages, to make marginal notes, etc.

The Kindle enables you to keep indefinitely every book you buy. After you've read a book, you simply press the Archive button and the book goes into an area separate from the books you are now reading. The books remain there permanently, and can be called up at will. Just in case your Kindle is destroyed, lost, or stolen, Amazon keeps a separate list or all the books you've bought, from which you can pull up some or all of them.

When one goes to a bookstore, one tends to look at and for books in the categories in which one is accustoned to find books of interest -- perhaps philosophy, or science fiction, or astronomy. etc. But I've found that the Kindle store makes browsing in all sorts of fields so easy and attractive, that i've been reading more than ever and in fields that I hadn't explored before and now am fascinated by. My horizons have expanded

Amazon reports that the Kindle is the biggest-selling product they market. It deserves to be.

Barbara.

[kiaer.ts]

Besides the fact that I don't like reading off the computer screen, the kinds of books I mostly purchase, recently Rucker's Geometry, Relativity and the Fourth Dimension, H W B Josephs' Introduction to Logic, Matissof's Handbook of Proto-Tibeto-Burman, Mallory's Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture, are not available on Kindle. I borrowed Hitchens' Catch 22 from the library, and have bought the most recent books from Victor Davis Hanson, Orson Scott Card, Oliver Sacks, and Camille Paglia from the Strand at half price. The most recent book I purchased that was available on Kindle, River's Classical and Christian Ideas in English Renaissance Poetry, costs $29.90 on kindle, and I got it for $5 used.

[Philip Coates]

Well, it's clear from the evidence of this thread that those people who would not consider buying a Kindle are irretrievably immoral, while those who will no longer buy actual physical books are hopelessly evil.

I hope that settles everything.

[Brant Gaede]

Barbara is hopelessly biased.

--Brant

stop reading!--it worked for me!

[Barbara Branden]

Besides the fact that I don't like reading off the computer screen, the kinds of books I mostly purchase, recently Rucker's Geometry, Relativity and the Fourth Dimension, H W B Josephs' Introduction to Logic, Matissof's Handbook of Proto-Tibeto-Burman, Mallory's Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture, are not available on Kindle. I borrowed Hitchens' Catch 22 from the library, and have bought the most recent books from Victor Davis Hanson, Orson Scott Card, Oliver Sacks, and Camille Paglia from the Strand at half price. The most recent book I purchased that was available on Kindle, River's Classical and Christian Ideas in English Renaissance Poetry, costs $29.90 on kindle, and I got it for $5 used.

Can I help it if you have weird tastes?

Barbara

[kiaer.ts]

Besides the fact that I don't like reading off the computer screen, the kinds of books I mostly purchase, recently Rucker's Geometry, Relativity and the Fourth Dimension, H W B Josephs' Introduction to Logic, Matissof's Handbook of Proto-Tibeto-Burman, Mallory's Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture, are not available on Kindle. I borrowed Hitchens' Catch 22 from the library, and have bought the most recent books from Victor Davis Hanson, Orson Scott Card, Oliver Sacks, and Camille Paglia from the Strand at half price. The most recent book I purchased that was available on Kindle, River's Classical and Christian Ideas in English Renaissance Poetry, costs $29.90 on kindle, and I got it for $5 used.

Can I help it if you have weird tastes?

Barbara

That's the point. If the convenience of instantly having a popular text matters to you, and you don't mind reading from a screen, then Kindle obviously makes sense. I am rarely in a huge hurry to get a book, since I already have about three dozen books on the tale next to the bed. The books I do want are usually more obscure academic ones. I might buy about a dozen popular titles a year, and those I get on discount in hardcover from the Strand, or Amazon if the Strand is not, as it normally is, cheaper.

[Peter]

I want to thank everyone for their insights into buying books online and I want to especially thank BB for her experience with the Kindle system. I have been considering going digital too.

I usually donate my old paperbacks to the Library, but recently I took two shopping bags of them to a used book store to see what I could get for them. It has been years since I visited a used book store and I was surprised at the feeling of nostalgia that came over me. I left the bags with the proprietress to evaluate them, and went to look at books for babies and toddlers.

I selected several dozen high quality books from that section to read to my granddaughter. Many of them were originally quite expensive and had beautiful art. I ended up trading my old paperbacks plus $17.00 for the children’s books. One was even in its original wrapper and so was unread (how sad.)

I like to see my granddaughter Elizabeth enjoying books too. Her favorites are “The Cat in the Hat,” and “All About Me.” I think for now I will stick with paper books, (but maybe not – I may get a digital device for Christmas.)

Semper cogitans fidele,

Peter Taylor

[Barbara Branden]

Besides the fact that I don't like reading off the computer screen, the kinds of books I mostly purchase, recently Rucker's Geometry, Relativity and the Fourth Dimension, H W B Josephs' Introduction to Logic, Matissof's Handbook of Proto-Tibeto-Burman, Mallory's Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture, are not available on Kindle. I borrowed Hitchens' Catch 22 from the library, and have bought the most recent books from Victor Davis Hanson, Orson Scott Card, Oliver Sacks, and Camille Paglia from the Strand at half price. The most recent book I purchased that was available on Kindle, River's Classical and Christian Ideas in English Renaissance Poetry, costs $29.90 on kindle, and I got it for $5 used.

Can I help it if you have weird tastes?

Barbara

That's the point. If the convenience of instantly having a popular text matters to you, and you don't mind reading from a screen, then Kindle obviously makes sense. I am rarely in a huge hurry to get a book, since I already have about three dozen books on the tale next to the bed. The books I do want are usually more obscure academic ones. I might buy about a dozen popular titles a year, and those I get on discount in hardcover from the Strand, or Amazon if the Strand is not, as it normally is, cheaper.

Ted, it's not the case that Kindle makes available predominantly popular as opposed to more academic books. For instance, I recently purchased Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolution, Classic Philosophy, Langer's The Power of Mindful Learning, Schwartz' The Mind and the Brain, Jefferson's State of the Union Address, Dehaene's Reading in the Brain, Halpern's Thought and Knowledge, Alinsky's Rules for Radicals -- and last but never least, Tarzan the Terrible by Burroughs. Potboilers all?

Barbara

[kiaer.ts]

Besides the fact that I don't like reading off the computer screen, the kinds of books I mostly purchase, recently Rucker's Geometry, Relativity and the Fourth Dimension, H W B Josephs' Introduction to Logic, Matissof's Handbook of Proto-Tibeto-Burman, Mallory's Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture, are not available on Kindle. I borrowed Hitchens' Catch 22 from the library, and have bought the most recent books from Victor Davis Hanson, Orson Scott Card, Oliver Sacks, and Camille Paglia from the Strand at half price. The most recent book I purchased that was available on Kindle, River's Classical and Christian Ideas in English Renaissance Poetry, costs $29.90 on kindle, and I got it for $5 used.

Can I help it if you have weird tastes?

Barbara

That's the point. If the convenience of instantly having a popular text matters to you, and you don't mind reading from a screen, then Kindle obviously makes sense. I am rarely in a huge hurry to get a book, since I already have about three dozen books on the tale next to the bed. The books I do want are usually more obscure academic ones. I might buy about a dozen popular titles a year, and those I get on discount in hardcover from the Strand, or Amazon if the Strand is not, as it normally is, cheaper.

Ted, it's not the case that Kindle makes available predominantly popular as opposed to more academic books. For instance, I recently purchased Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolution, Classic Philosophy, Langer's The Power of Mindful Learning, Schwartz' The Mind and the Brain, Jefferson's State of the Union Address, Dehaene's Reading in the Brain, Halpern's Thought and Knowledge, Alinsky's Rules for Radicals -- and last but never least, Tarzan the Terrible by Burroughs. Potboilers all?

Barbara

Kuhn's and Alinsky's are popular books. (I read Kuhn in high school, I bought the book at B Dalton's in the Deptford Mall.) I would under no circumstances pay royalties to read Alinsky - I would get him from the library or at worst pay $1 to buy him used.

Yes, I understand that Kindle lets you rent some 638,000 titles currently.

The last three books I bought on line that I did not list above were:

Proto-Popotecan, Gudschinsky, $12, ABE

The Cambridge History of Later Medieval Philosophy, Kretzmann et al, $23, ABE

and Hidden Empire, Orson Scott Card, hardback, $12.50, from The Strand

I doubt the first two are available on Kindle. I don't think I could lend the third to my Brother-in-Law via Kindle either. (Amazon has the third book for $16.49 new and $11.99 on Kindle.)

For my needs Kindle would almost never be the best solution, and for my preferences, never. But I do respect the fact that other fully individualized persons have needs and preferences that differ from mine.

Can you use Kindle to swat a fly? Will it work after an EMP attack? Were I world dictator, the only consumer product I would outlaw would be bubble gum, not Kindle.

[Neil Parille]

I enjoy my Kindle, but it could be better:

1. The books are often quite expensive.

2. You can't share the books with another Kindle owner.

3. The book doesn't look the same way on the screen as it does on the "real" page. So if you have a book that says "see page 25" there is no way to figure out where page 25 is. For a book with end notes like Anne Heller's bio of Rand it's a waste of money. Footnotes are a pain as well.

I believe Adobe has an Epub format that solves the problem of point 3.

-Neil Parille

[Alfonso Jones]

I enjoy my Kindle, but it could be better:

1. The books are often quite expensive.

2. You can't share the books with another Kindle owner.

3. The book doesn't look the same way on the screen as it does on the "real" page. So if you have a book that says "see page 25" there is no way to figure out where page 25 is. For a book with end notes like Anne Heller's bio of Rand it's a waste of money. Footnotes are a pain as well.

I believe Adobe has an Epub format that solves the problem of point 3.

-Neil Parille

I'm also a Kindle owner. The problem of pagination is a serious one. For purposes of citation, it is a real difficulty to not be able to refer to page numbers in a specific edition.

Regards,

Bill P

[Barbara Branden]

Neil and Bill, you are quite right. The problem of pagination is very real and often very annoying. I hope Kindle will soon find a solution for it.

Barbara