Public Schooling is Socialism

[dan2100]

I am a teacher and that's not my purpose. My purpose is to do the best job I can and to help students learn as much as possible. Enjoying the journey will help learning, but enjoyment is not the primary goal.

Sometimes, you can't learn something unless you show up on time, sit down and shut up. Or, the kid next to you can't learn unless you do so. Either way, do it, or get out. This "pointless" activity is a side-effect, not a goal.

This partly the problem with mandatory schooling, don't you think? Don't you think the coercive nature of schooling today makes for disruptive students?

Yes, for some. Although coincidentally, I only ever taught (and teach) non-mandatory subjects. My job is to teach the subject as best I can and if a student is in the way of that, they're gone. I suppose it is indeed different if the student must be there and doesn't have a choice.

You mean elective subjects? But are these the sort of "you must take one of these, but you have a choice over which one" or "you don't have to take any of these, but you can if you want to"?

What's the alternative? Mandatory schooling can be argued from many angles. One is that up to a point, mandatory schooling protects children.

The alternative is, obviously I thought, allowing people to choose whether to be schooled. I.e., no mandatory schooling.

I'm not sure it protects children in the first place, but, even if it did, I'm not sure compounding one form of coercion to protect against another (I presume you mean protects them from child abuse even if only in the form of neglect) is not the solution. (Of course, it's unlikely mandatory schooling will disappear next Tuesday and all these kids will be left at the mercy of abusive parents.)

And my experience, too, was that much abuse takes places in school -- not so much teachers beating up on students, mind you, but other students picking on students sometimes with the passive support of the teachers. At least, I have witnessed such during my time in school.

[bmacwilliam]

I am a teacher and that's not my purpose. My purpose is to do the best job I can and to help students learn as much as possible. Enjoying the journey will help learning, but enjoyment is not the primary goal.

Sometimes, you can't learn something unless you show up on time, sit down and shut up. Or, the kid next to you can't learn unless you do so. Either way, do it, or get out. This "pointless" activity is a side-effect, not a goal.

This partly the problem with mandatory schooling, don't you think? Don't you think the coercive nature of schooling today makes for disruptive students?

Yes, for some. Although coincidentally, I only ever taught (and teach) non-mandatory subjects. My job is to teach the subject as best I can and if a student is in the way of that, they're gone. I suppose it is indeed different if the student must be there and doesn't have a choice.

You mean elective subjects? But are these the sort of "you must take one of these, but you have a choice over which one" or "you don't have to take any of these, but you can if you want to"?

What's the alternative? Mandatory schooling can be argued from many angles. One is that up to a point, mandatory schooling protects children.

The alternative is, obviously I thought, allowing people to choose whether to be schooled. I.e., no mandatory schooling.

I'm not sure it protects children in the first place, but, even if it did, I'm not sure compounding one form of coercion to protect against another (I presume you mean protects them from child abuse even if only in the form of neglect) is not the solution. (Of course, it's unlikely mandatory schooling will disappear next Tuesday and all these kids will be left at the mercy of abusive parents.)

And my experience, too, was that much abuse takes places in school -- not so much teachers beating up on students, mind you, but other students picking on students sometimes with the passive support of the teachers. At least, I have witnessed such during my time in school.

I understand the abuse thing. Actively combating this is required. Some children are victimized. I wasn't, but only because I'd willingly fight physically (and lose maybe) but then it would stop. Some kids can't do this and they suffer.

""you don't have to take any of these, but you can if you want to"?

Yes, Physics, Computer Science.

"The alternative is, obviously I thought, allowing people to choose whether to be schooled. I.e., no mandatory schooling."

No it's not obvious. If I gave my kids the choice of what to eat all on their own, they'd be dead at 20, much less schooling decisions.

Bob