The Muslims are Taking Over The World

[Libertarian Muslim]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4cb_1267978576

[Mike11]

When you posted this my first instinct was not to watch, I have a low threshold for racism. Then I thought it would be a comedic parody of this kind of Fitna-esque racism. So I clicked and half way in, no comedy. No offence Adonis but why did post that?

Poorer populations have higher birthrates than wealthier ones in the modern world, its a fact of humanity not something the Muslims are intentionally doing (though I've heard some radical muslims calling for a sustained demographic program). Though a country I am connected to, Israel, is unfortunately seeing the results of its poorer religious citizens eroding the secular society so it can be a threat to a western democracy when a majority is antagonistic to that democracy. Now I don't know too much about the Muslim population of Europe but if there is a 'problem' (and I hate to use words that racists use) then the answer can not be for the Whites to close ranks and define the two as separate. Integration, equality of social and economic opportunity and tolerance are likely the answers (weren't the recent France riots a reaction to these very things being denied them?). I mean Muslims, Jews, Buddhists (whatever); history shows that poverty, repression and xenophobia among anyone are enemies of progress. You can't over stress ideology, economic and social equality have more to do with civil society than the Locke's and Jefferson's.

Islam is a religion that stretches three continents, fourteen hundred years and every political order invented. History is replete with examples of Muslims adapting and progressing in the societies it incorporates. I can not and will not believe that Islam is not perfectly capable of reaching a synthesis with European society. In Canada we have many, many Muslim immigrants and you know how we get along together? Better than with the bloody French!

I mean all this racist crap can only go in two directions, neither of them any good. As, again, a Jew, I know that my population was subject to the fears of the "communist immigrants" in most of the Western world but here we are, just one generation later doing quite well in a tolerant society. And the fears about us were every bit as 'factual' and terrifying to the racists.

I leave you with a funny fact, my white Paternal grandmother was an RCMP (canadian secret service) paid informant against my mother's fellow Jews.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Joel Mac Donald

[Brant Gaede]

If the Muslims are taking over, does this mean they'll pay off our national debt?

--Brant

[BaalChatzaf]

If the Muslims take over (may G-D forbid it!) it will be a Long Dark Night for the human race.

Ba"al Chatzaf

[Libertarian Muslim]

When you posted this my first instinct was not to watch, I have a low threshold for racism. Then I thought it would be a comedic parody of this kind of Fitna-esque racism. So I clicked and half way in, no comedy. No offence Adonis but why did post that?

Hi Joel..

Why did I post it? Well I'm a Muslim and I wanted to see your opinions on the issue.

I wouldn't be surprised if the figures were correct and that due to our high baby making rates that we would be dominant in Europe in terms of population.

I was just wondering what people here thought about it?

[Mike11]

Well, you know what I think, what are your thoughts on it?

[9thdoctor]

Well I'm a Muslim and I wanted to see your opinions on the issue.

Ugh, it’s a anti-Muslim scare piece. The title should have been Protocols of the Fecund Towelheads of Mecca. I thought the stereotype was that Catholics reproduce like rabbits.

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[Libertarian Muslim]

Well, you know what I think, what are your thoughts on it?

I think that it's bound to happen, we're bound to be the majority in the world.. But I think that the Governments in these countries are trying to stop it and cause as much friction as possible because they're scared of 'Islamic' Culture becoming dominant and their own being less important.. It's typical of Europeans..

I think that the current levels of racism in societies like France, The Netherland, Sweden etc are increasing and the more they increase, the more that the Muslim community feels alienated and retreats within itself..

I think that this encourages youth to become more extreme because they don't feel like citizens in their own nation..

I think that this will create huge problems in the future, bigger than anything we've seen so far.. May even into some new type of Inquisition where Muslims are forced to leave..

If the Muslim community isn't helped to see the similarities between Islam and Libertarianism and start practicing their religion according to this line then there will only be conflict and Europe will crumble..

[Mike11]

I agree.

I'm also going to go back and look at your posts in the other threads.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I saw the video up to the analysis of Great Britain.

(yawn)

Then I decided not to waste my time further.

Anyone who takes fertility rates from Mr. "According To Research" to make projections like this video did is guilty of gross oversimplification.

Islam is growing in Europe. Skewed data is not needed to see that.

But that kind of skewed data makes for an interesting loaded title. I even think it promotes bigotry.

Michael

[Selene]

Well, you know what I think, what are your thoughts on it?

I think that the current levels of racism in societies like France, The Netherland, Sweden etc are increasing and the more they increase, the more that the Muslim community feels alienated and retreats within itself..

Adonis:

You are using the term "racism" precisely how in this context?

Adam

[Libertarian Muslim]

Adonis:

You are using the term "racism" precisely how in this context?

Adam

The racism that minority communities usually face when they migrate to another country that causes them to retreat to within themselves and not feel like they are citizens of their new home... Such as Fearmongering by groups and the media, Alienation, Abuse, Assault etc..

Edited March 9, 2010 by Adonis Vlahos

[Selene]

Adonis:

You are using the term "racism" precisely how in this context?

Adam

The racism that minority communities usually face when they migrate to another country that causes them to retreat to within themselves and not feel like they are citizens of their new home... Such as Fearmongering by groups and the media, Alienation, Abuse, Assault etc..

Adonis:

Which has nothing to do with race.

Essentially, if a group of Asians from one place came to another similar Asian country the rejection or fear of the "others" would not be based on race.

Adam

By the way folks, the Christians and Muslims are slaughtering each other in Nigeria...500 dead Christians by a "Muslim" raiding party. Another war for oil.

[Libertarian Muslim]

Adonis:

Which has nothing to do with race.

Essentially, if a group of Asians from one place came to another similar Asian country the rejection or fear of the "others" would not be based on race.

Adam

By the way folks, the Christians and Muslims are slaughtering each other in Nigeria...500 dead Christians by a "Muslim" raiding party. Another war for oil.

How European.. If you put Asians from one country into another it means they are different people, it is still racism, it's the same between the tribes in Nigeria..

[Rich Engle]

This is not even capable of capturing attention. Sure, go breed. When religious thought goes hateful, mean, bad. I don't care how many a man makes, hateful is hateful. Eeew, scary, scary...ominous. You can make as many as you wish, but stupid and mean is stupid and mean. Breed more hamburger.

The true religions of the world do not promote this; reason, reverence, and tolerance do not permit such things.

Do a little research. Find out who sent your Prophet his wife. That would be the Catholic church. Do the effing math.

What is your agenda? A conversion strategy via semi-produced videos?

Even real Islamic thought (as all true religious thought) would turn away from this, because, innately, it is hateful.

I'm glad (and you should be glad, for you sake, as it stands) that I had a vasectomy. Elsewise, I would be like this; breeding hamburger to throw at the world.

And mind you, I'm a spiritual guy. I'm one of the foils in the Objectivist world. I'm a Unitarian Universalist, fer Chrissakes (or Moo-Hammid's sake, whatever). There is no conceivable purpose for people to expend their energies to make crap videos like this. Shit, I could pull up a horror movie and at least get better entertainment values. Yeah, yeah...go infect cultures. Drive our asses back to the stone age. Have your women complacent...complacent breeding machines. Sure!

Try freethinking, instead of hitting your knees on the carpet. This is no different from any kind of fundamentalist thought I have ever witnessed. Here, try this, maybe a little comedy will loosen your ass up, but I doubt it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

Have a nice day, love the beret. And the sideburn lineup. Do you get the Puerto Ricans to do that? If not, you should: they do wonderful lineups. Shopping at CheGuerva dot-com? Joined the Army? Investing a bit-too-much in pseudo-military stuff, cammy? Waiting to Die For The Cause so you can go do up a bunch of nubile virgin fuck-monkeys? Heavens to Betsy. Idea: Cheat Just A Little More and toss down a few. For you, I recommend Wild Turkey. A lot.

OR...since you are here, maybe you could talk some of your confused Brethren out of their Madness. Become Islamic Superman. I do it all the time over here on the Xstian side. It's a pain in the ass, but you get used to it after awhile. You get strokies, and sometimes even free food when you visit churches and stuff. Not bad.

Blessed Be,

rde

Edited March 9, 2010 by Rich Engle

[Selene]

Adonis:

Which has nothing to do with race.

Essentially, if a group of Asians from one place came to another similar Asian country the rejection or fear of the "others" would not be based on race.

Adam

By the way folks, the Christians and Muslims are slaughtering each other in Nigeria...500 dead Christians by a "Muslim" raiding party. Another war for oil.

How European.. If you put Asians from one country into another it means they are different people, it is still racism, it's the same between the tribes in Nigeria..

Adonis:

You seem to be working quite hard to misunderstand my point. If the group coming from another country are the same race, how can it be racism?

It may be a whole lot of other "isms", but, unless you would care to define racism in the context that you are attempting to fit it into, it just doe not work.

Define racism.

Adam

[Rich Engle]

Define racism.

I got this one, Adam. Anyone who does anything who doesn't have one of those roll-out worship rugs. Idea: Hit Home Despot<tm> I mean Depot and BUY IN BULK. If you buy remnants, and remarket properly...

rde

No Tickee No Washee, Me Chinee, Me "Inscrutable."

[Libertarian Muslim]

Adonis:

Which has nothing to do with race.

Essentially, if a group of Asians from one place came to another similar Asian country the rejection or fear of the "others" would not be based on race.

Adam

By the way folks, the Christians and Muslims are slaughtering each other in Nigeria...500 dead Christians by a "Muslim" raiding party. Another war for oil.

How European.. If you put Asians from one country into another it means they are different people, it is still racism, it's the same between the tribes in Nigeria..

Adonis:

You seem to be working quite hard to misunderstand my point. If the group coming from another country are the same race, how can it be racism?

It may be a whole lot of other "isms", but, unless you would care to define racism in the context that you are attempting to fit it into, it just doe not work.

Define racism.

Adam

You assume that 'Asians' from the different countries and cultures believe that they are from the same Race as other people who are 'Asian'. That label is something which Europe came up with and applied to 'Asian' people to describe them as a group. It's not something the people themselves chose to define themselves by. So saying that they are the same race is silly, they're not. They don't consider themselves the same. Call it racism or tribalism, it's still going to happen in that sitaution.

[Selene]

Adonis:

Which has nothing to do with race.

Essentially, if a group of Asians from one place came to another similar Asian country the rejection or fear of the "others" would not be based on race.

Adam

By the way folks, the Christians and Muslims are slaughtering each other in Nigeria...500 dead Christians by a "Muslim" raiding party. Another war for oil.

How European.. If you put Asians from one country into another it means they are different people, it is still racism, it's the same between the tribes in Nigeria..

Adonis:

You seem to be working quite hard to misunderstand my point. If the group coming from another country are the same race, how can it be racism?

It may be a whole lot of other "isms", but, unless you would care to define racism in the context that you are attempting to fit it into, it just doe not work.

Define racism.

Adam

You assume that 'Asians' from the different countries and cultures believe that they are from the same Race as other people who are 'Asian'. That label is something which Europe came up with and applied to 'Asian' people to describe them as a group. It's not something the people themselves chose to define themselves by. So saying that they are the same race is silly, they're not. They don't consider themselves the same. Call it racism or tribalism, it's still going to happen in that sitaution.

Adonis:

I think you understood what I was getting at and I will not accept that little verbal "jig" that you just attempted.

A Caucasian from country A emigrates to country B and is treated as a sub human interloper by the Caucasians in Country B. Forcing the Caucasian from Country A to pay a "fee" to the Country B Caucasians and treats the Caucasian from country A as a virtual serf, or second class citizen, that has to live in a special quarter of Country B.

Now substitute Negro, Inuit, Chinese, Japanese and _____ese into the above example and it is still not racism.

Why are you dancing around the issue of racism?

Adam

ABC challenged

Edited March 9, 2010 by Selene

[Libertarian Muslim]

This is not even capable of capturing attention. Sure, go breed. When religious thought goes hateful, mean, bad. I don't care how many a man makes, hateful is hateful. Eeew, scary, scary...ominous. You can make as many as you wish, but stupid and mean is stupid and mean. Breed more hamburger.

The true religions of the world do not promote this; reason, reverence, and tolerance do not permit such things.

That's not true at all.. You're the only one here who sounds hateful..

Do a little research. Find out who sent your Prophet his wife. That would be the Catholic church. Do the effing math.

Oh I see, so I'm the one who should do some research.. Okay, prove that his wife was sent to him by the Catholic Church. I see this accusation thrown around all the time but people like yourself never can actually prove it..

What is your agenda? A conversion strategy via semi-produced videos?

We don't need to do that, even with the worst possible media that we do get, Islam is still the fastest growing religion on earth and not just through birth rates.. People still convert

I'm glad (and you should be glad, for you sake, as it stands) that I had a vasectomy. Elsewise, I would be like this; breeding hamburger to throw at the world.

And mind you, I'm a spiritual guy. I'm one of the foils in the Objectivist world. I'm a Unitarian Universalist, fer Chrissakes (or Moo-Hammid's sake, whatever). There is no conceivable purpose for people to expend their energies to make crap videos like this. Shit, I could pull up a horror movie and at least get better entertainment values. Yeah, yeah...go infect cultures. Drive our asses back to the stone age. Have your women complacent...complacent breeding machines. Sure!

Muslim women aren't complacent breeding machines. It's not what we want from them either. In fact I think you'll find that in places like Australia, the US, New Zealand, Canada, the UK etc that Muslim women are enrolled at university at a higher rate than their Anglo- non Muslim counterparts. Why is that?

Try freethinking, instead of hitting your knees on the carpet. This is no different from any kind of fundamentalist thought I have ever witnessed. Here, try this, maybe a little comedy will loosen your ass up, but I doubt it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

I do think freely.

Have a nice day, love the beret. And the sideburn lineup. Do you get the Puerto Ricans to do that? If not, you should: they do wonderful lineups. Shopping at CheGuerva dot-com? Joined the Army? Investing a bit-too-much in pseudo-military stuff, cammy? Waiting to Die For The Cause so you can go do up a bunch of nubile virgin fuck-monkeys? Heavens to Betsy. Idea: Cheat Just A Little More and toss down a few. For you, I recommend Wild Turkey. A lot.

Don't you think that Che Guevara would take issue with my La Coste (French Imperialist) hat being compared with his beret? Or my striped long sleeve shirt being compared with his olive drab shirt. Or my neat and trimmed mustache and beard being compared with his unkempt guerrilla beard? I think so..

OR...since you are here, maybe you could talk some of your confused Brethren out of their Madness. Become Islamic Superman. I do it all the time over here on the Xstian side. It's a pain in the ass, but you get used to it after awhile. You get strokies, and sometimes even free food when you visit churches and stuff. Not bad.

You seem to be one of those mad confused Christians with all of the rhetoric and hate that you preach.. It's hard to see how the blind leading the blind would help here.

[Selene]

Adonis:

A point of information before the mini war that will be occurring between Rich and yourself...

Since I am taking you as an expert in Islam, as you perceive it, which I respect, is there a conversion to Islam or is it a "reversion"?

I have seen both used with equal passion.

Is there a scholarly agreement on which is correct, or, if both can be used?

Thanks.

Adam

[Rich Engle]

There is no mini-war. For one thing, he has effed up off-rip, by just pasting links. I don't negotiate with terrorists. Use the words or Get Out Of Dodge. I don't even know what he posted, this link I see, nor will I.

Because, to do so, it implies I must ~learn~ some big scary knowledge. If a man cannot speak to you directly, show ideas, then he should get off the podium.

But I could suggest, just on sussing, a few things on his behalf.

One would be to look at the massive amount of global integration work done by various world spiritual leaders and philosophers. There is, on the higher plane, a great dialogue going on in this regard. It is integration work, mostly to the marrying of science and spirituality. A lot of reading and ideas here, in the neutral court, without religious orientation, or, more importantly, hating going on. Just the ideas. Just trying to figure it all out.

But that is such a bitch, isn't it?

r

[Rich Engle]

You know, another thing (as I read back on this thread; one that I normally wouldn't approach just from the sadness that comes to me when so-doing).

Always, it seems, it comes to "race." In the end, it comes down to the sickness of "bloodlines."

Yeah, better DNA, or whatnot, that is what lurks underneath, whether the writer understands that condition, or not.

It is a bad path to follow, I think. If you want to throw some Kryptonite into the pot, you can do, oh, I dunno, concepts like "individual religious consciousness." There's one.

It all hurts if you are one that cannot walk together with others. It is the difference between convenant and creed- based religious thought.

r

[Selene]

Rich:

As you can see, this does get out of hand quickly.

FYI, Adonis came to this forum from one of the other forums.

He believes, as he asserts, that libertarianism and Islam are compatible.

He is reasonable and will debate with both logic and passion which makes him fine in my book.

Having read the Dali Llama book that you recommended, your message is well received that we should be working on a unification of science and religion with clarity and openness.

You also see what I have been asking about the "racism" allegations that get thrown out whether they apply or not.

I am actually surprised that Adonis posted that video and I am even more surprised at the use of the word "racism" in this thread.

Adam

[Libertarian Muslim]

There is no mini-war. For one thing, he has effed up off-rip, by just pasting links. I don't negotiate with terrorists. Use the words or Get Out Of Dodge. I don't even know what he posted, this link I see, nor will I.

Because, to do so, it implies I must ~learn~ some big scary knowledge. If a man cannot speak to you directly, show ideas, then he should get off the podium.

But I could suggest, just on sussing, a few things on his behalf.

One would be to look at the massive amount of global integration work done by various world spiritual leaders and philosophers. There is, on the higher plane, a great dialogue going on in this regard. It is integration work, mostly to the marrying of science and spirituality. A lot of reading and ideas here, in the neutral court, without religious orientation, or, more importantly, hating going on. Just the ideas. Just trying to figure it all out.

But that is such a bitch, isn't it?

r

You didn't watch the link I pasted? Yet you're judging me by assuming certain things about me which you haven't bothered to find out...

You sound like a fanatic that just spurts out recycled hateful rhetoric..

Perhaps you should have spent more time finding out about me before you spoke.

Also, I'm still waiting for you to prove that Khadijah was sent to Muhammad by the Catholic church??