It's about love, gentlemen... Love.

[Christopher]

Action

Reaction

Synthesis

Objectivism is just a reaction, gentlemen. It is a beautiful, eloquent reaction to society's socialist tendencies. But the focus on human rights and capitalism within Objectivism is not an end, it is a means. What, pray tell, is the end?

Reading through the Rational Government thread ignited my basic belief that capitalism is over-rated in Objectivist culture just as it is under-rated in mainstream culture. Objectivism is a reaction to mainstream's devaluation of a necessary foundation for goodness (freedom). But in no way should Objectivism's support of capitalism replace love, compassion, and empathy. Those few who argue for an anarcho-capitalistic world over-value Objectivism's focus on economics, not recognizing that economics is a means to an end for human freedom. And human freedom is just a means to an end for the epitome of all good feelings - love.

I believe man is free to live as he chooses, and I believe that the goal of life is to experience such feelings as love, compassion, and empathy. I also believe that to successfully and sustainably experience these feelings, humans require a foundation of freedom. Objectivist principles are a necessity. But Objectivism will not make a person happy, it will only offer the freedom to choose values that can lead to happiness. It is a bastardization to reduce all of valued human functioning to the sphere of personal freedom, and even more of a bastardization to reduce human freedom to the sphere of economic activity. For in doing so one gives no thought to the goals of life, to the ends.

What we need is a synthesis between real human values (so amazingly pervasive throughout culture - although gender-stereotyped as I have mentioned) and real human freedom. The goal of capitalism, ironically enough, is love. We need love, gentlemen... love.

[BaalChatzaf]

What we need is a synthesis between real human values (so amazingly pervasive throughout culture - although gender-stereotyped as I have mentioned) and real human freedom. The goal of capitalism, ironically enough, is love. We need love, gentlemen... love.

Yuccky poo sugar sweet sentimentality.

I prefer logic and justice.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Selene]

What we need is a synthesis between real human values (so amazingly pervasive throughout culture - although gender-stereotyped as I have mentioned) and real human freedom. The goal of capitalism, ironically enough, is love. We need love, gentlemen... love.

Yuccky poo sugar sweet sentimentality.

I prefer logic and justice.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Chris's group hug world

Ba'al HUMBUG's answer

Adam

[9thdoctor]

Chris's group hug world

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzJ2NKp23WU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzJ2NKp23WU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzJ2NKp23WU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I have a sense that Christopher’s feeling extra good today, I bet he’s been shamelessly bogarting the bong.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="

type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Selene]

And back at ya with the Marley Man

Love his music.

Adam

[Christopher]

I love the Beatles.

I would never have pegged you for a Marley fan, Adam

[Selene]

I love the Beatles.

I would never have pegged you for a Marley fan, Adam

Well Chris...

You know books and covers and judging lol

Adam

Post Script: And yes, as I was listening and watching the Beatles, I just shook my head at how incredibly talented they are.

Possibly the greatest group ever. Me, I am a Moody Blues fanatic. Had my ears deadened by them at a Jones Beach Concert in '84-'85, we were in the third (3rd) row. Great pot also. lol.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Selene

[Xray]

The goal of capitalism, ironically enough, is love.

The goal of an -ism is "love"? Would you elaborate with examples?

Edited January 9, 2010 by Xray

[Selene]

Ms. Xray:

Absolutely, as you are, oddly, not familiar with objective love as an objective value, being that your subjective orientation cannot be defined by you in any objective manner...

what would you like to know about love Ms. Xray?

Adam

[Christopher]

And pot! Geez,...

When it comes to rock, I love Heart. But when it comes the being moved.. I think the best concert I ever went to was Simon and Garfunkel old friends tour, 5th row center. One of the few concerts that truly blew my heart away.

[Selene]

And pot! Geez,...

When it comes to rock, I love Heart. But when it comes the being moved.. I think the best concert I ever went to was Simon and Garfunkel old friends tour, 5th row center. One of the few concerts that truly blew my heart away.

Chris:

Us Randians used to meet in the back caf [cafeteria], a small room that sat maybe 50 people, in the student union building, Queens College. Now this is 1963 ish. We are all either Randians, YAFers, a few John Birch Society guys, who I have no problem with, Republicans or Conservatives. We were all Goldwaterites. We basically made it our headquarters. Well we had two dudes named Tom and Jerry who played guitar in the back caf and we were all real friendly. They were from Forest Hills. One was a real geeky guy with a phenomenal voice and the other a short dude.

Yep, Simon and Garfunkel. Also brilliant musicians songwriters performers, I do not have enough kudos.

Adam

[Xray]

Christopher: I love the Beatles.

I would never have pegged you for a Marley fan, Adam

Ditto from me for both statements.

Selene a Marley fan, who would've thought that.

Selene

And back at ya with the Marley Man

Love his music.

Me too. I love reggae music in general.

I hope Selene the shock isn't too big for you to see me agree on a subjective value with you here.

Ms. Xray:

Absolutely, as you are, oddly, not familiar with objective love as an objective value, being that your subjective orientation cannot be defined by you in any objective manner...

Huh?

what would you like to know about love Ms. Xray?

Adam

Mr. Selene, I'm afraid you don't figure on the list of people I would ask if I wanted to know anything about it which I don't know already.

Christopher wrote:

The goal of capitalism, ironically enough, is love.

I'm really curious to see examples of love being the "goal of capitalism".

Edited January 10, 2010 by Xray

[Dragonfly]

With so much love around, hate can't be far away.

[Selene]

"Ditto from me for both statements.

Selene a Marley fan, who would've thought that.

I hope Selene the shock isn't too big for you to see me agree on a subjective value with you here.

Why would that shock me at all? Objectively, there is no reason that we should not agree on good music and an excellent political message.

Absolutely, as you are, oddly, not familiar with objective love as an objective value, being that your subjective orientation cannot be defined by you in any objective manner...

Huh?

This, my dear, is how your writing about subjective values comes across.

Mr. Selene, I'm afraid you don't figure on the list of people I would ask if I wanted to know anything about it which I don't know already.

Ms. Xray:

I am not at all surprised that you would be so narrow minded that you could not learn something about love from me. Hell, I could learn something about love from a female dog, why not from you?

Adam

wondering how so many close minded folks get to be "professional" teachers

[tjohnson]

With so much love around, hate can't be far away.

LOL. I heard an interesting show on the radio the other day about how our nervous system act to protect us from strong emotions. So if someone close to us dies we learn to rationalize the event and eventually move on. The interesting thing is that it also works for positive events - to keep us from becoming too happy. In the end the researchers claimed that true happiness comes from many small events everyday - not large events like getting married, getting a huge contract, a big house, etc. It reminds me of the old saying "stop and smell the roses". Another one is the words of Harry Chapin, the folksinger, who said "it's got to be the going, not the getting there that's good"

[Selene]

With so much love around, hate can't be far away.

LOL. I heard an interesting show on the radio the other day about how our nervous system act to protect us from strong emotions. So if someone close to us dies we learn to rationalize the event and eventually move on. The interesting thing is that it also works for positive events - to keep us from becoming too happy. In the end the researchers claimed that true happiness comes from many small events everyday - not large events like getting married, getting a huge contract, a big house, etc. It reminds me of the old saying "stop and smell the roses". Another one is the words of Harry Chapin, the folksinger, who said "it's got to be the going, not the getting there that's good"

GS:

Excellent points. Makes good sense to me. Harry Chapin - great artist. I worked with his brother and his sister Diana, She later became the NY City Commissioner of Parks and Recreation. His brother was a professor of history I believe.

Incredibly talented family. Also, shows why smoking pot and tailgating a tractor trailer truck on the Long Island Expressway is not exceptionally bright. Horrible way to die.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Nu9dfdYCZhM << beautiful song he and Tom in his last year singing in Ottawa - and fits your post as to the little beauties of daily life.

Adam

Post script:

"All my life's a circle;

Sunrise and sundown;

Moon rolls thru the nighttime;

Till the daybreak comes around.

All my life's a circle;

But I can't tell you why;

Season's spinning round again;

The years keep rollin' by.

It seems like I've been here before;

I can't remember when;

But I have this funny feeling;

That we'll all be together again.

No straight lines make up my life;

And all my roads have bends;

There's no clear-cut beginnings;

And so far no dead-ends.

Chorus:

I found you a thousand times;

I guess you done the same;

But then we lose each other;

It's like a children's game;

As I find you here again;

A thought runs through my mind;

Our love is like a circle;

Let's go 'round one more time."

Chorus

Harry Chapin sings CIRCLE. Hamilton Ontario in 1981. His last year.

Edited January 10, 2010 by Selene

[Xray]

Absolutely, as you are, oddly, not familiar with objective love as an objective value, being that your subjective orientation cannot be defined by you in any objective manner...

Xray: Huh?

This, my dear, is how your writing about subjective values comes across.

To you maybe, because you you still don't realize that "objective" values don't exist.

[Selene]

Absolutely, as you are, oddly, not familiar with objective love as an objective value, being that your subjective orientation cannot be defined by you in any objective manner...

Xray: Huh?

This, my dear, is how your writing about subjective values comes across.

To you maybe, because you you still don't realize that "objective" values don't exist.

Ms. Xray:

WOW...that was a brilliant rejoinder. I am laid low. I am devastated, I am subjective now.

Gee...now I just do not know what to do...maybe I will dive down to the bottom of the ocean and lay on the sand and sunbathe.

That would really feel good.

Adam

[Christopher]

With so much love around, hate can't be far away.

LOL. I heard an interesting show on the radio the other day about how our nervous system act to protect us from strong emotions. So if someone close to us dies we learn to rationalize the event and eventually move on. The interesting thing is that it also works for positive events - to keep us from becoming too happy. In the end the researchers claimed that true happiness comes from many small events everyday - not large events like getting married, getting a huge contract, a big house, etc. It reminds me of the old saying "stop and smell the roses". Another one is the words of Harry Chapin, the folksinger, who said "it's got to be the going, not the getting there that's good"

I don't believe this. I imagine there is flawed reasoning or methodology to the research. Imagine humans evolving with strong emotional mechanisms and then evolving a second system along the evolutionary tree specifically geared at regulating those strong emotions! Hmm, on further reflection though...

In Psychology, rationalizing events is considered a common evasion technique, and thus one has to address one's beliefs about evasion when discussing beliefs about the functioning of rationalization. I guess it depends whether one considers evasion "normal and healthy." In some bad situations evasion can be beneficial (just like fear), but on average evasion as a way of life is a bad thing (just like fear).

I find agreement with the small-events hypothesis. Our needs operate within the moment and seek satiation in the moment. Major events can only last for the duration of the event (plus a short afterglow). Any feelings that last longer than a short duration are usually the results of cognitive mechanisms and not emotional - but it is precisely emotions that really help determine happiness. So if you want happiness, I agree that you should satiate your moment-to-moment little needs (like affiliating, small achievements, etc.).