The Dire Search for Meaning and Purpose in a Finite Life.

[Victor Pross]

Every man, in the end, is an island. Angie, you are so independent in mind that you make an island look like a parasite! ;)

[Michael Russell]

Wayne Simmons: "Michael Russell, your approach seems to be that you talk about my insulting tone and then insult me. Hmmm, interesting hypocrisy."

Thanks for your answer to my question.

Victor Pross: "All this? Even after I posted that Beatle song?"

gary williams: "Sorry Victor! But I am a Stones man!"

I'm a late Beatles and early Stones fan.

CNA: "Once again, Damage has a huge audience right now. This is what he is looking for. The more everyone posts the more it is going to erupt. The more it will add fuel to the fire. This whole fiasco is not beneficial to anyone in anyway. It will become a vicious cycle; ie, the vacuous state and will continue."

At the risk of offending Mr. Simmons ... AMEN!

[Victor Pross]

Mike: "I'm a late Beatles and early Stones fan."

Right on. I love the Beatles. Period. I love the early stones right up till...oh....early 80s.

[Michael Russell]

Victor: "Right on. I love the Beatles. Period. I love the early stones right up till...oh....early 80s."

The Beatles were simply the greatest Rock N' Roll band ever. Period. Thankfully they broke up before they ended up like the joke that is the 2006 version of the Rolling Stones.

Mick

[MBM]

If I may go back to the original article that started this thread to make a comment on it:

After all, what would be the purpose to set objectives and goals if life were something infinite? NEVER-ending! I believe it would zap life of any meaning.

Why would "never-ending" life zap it of any meaning?

I would think that the longer the life we could look forward to, the *more* meaning it would have. It would be possible to set, and achieve, larger and longer-term goals than it is possible to achieve in one present-day lifespan.

I, for one, think it is almost ineveitable that medical and biological technology is going to advance to the point where people will become virtually immortal in the sense that the effects of aging can be repaired. Would this be a bad thing? I certainly don't think so.

The "battle of ideas" (or "clash of civilizations", or whatever you want to call it) that is going on in the world is going to take longer to resolve itself than any of us will probably live. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to live long enough to see how it comes out? Human civilzation may one day spread to other parts of the solar system and beyond. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to witness that, and maybe participate in it?

No, I don't think the fact that I will most likely die within the next few decades *enhances* the meaning of my life. Do you?

MBM

[MBM]

Once again, Damage has a huge audience right now. This is what he is looking for. The more everyone posts the more it is going to erupt. The more it will add fuel to the fire. This whole fiasco is not beneficial to anyone in anyway. It will become a vicious cycle; ie, the vacuous state and will continue.

What we need here is some "Damage control".

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Wayne (Mr. Marginal-Damage),

I am starting to get amused.

Before the fun stuff, let me say that I checked you out scanning a Google search. I do admire the way you stood up for Victor during that silly plagiary stuff. (btw - He has been soliciting patience as regards you. I think he likes you...)

Now, on with the show. Seems like you got the itch for elective politics. I never heard of anyone getting elected insulting his constituency. I don't know your demeanor when stumping, but your Freedom Party results are pretty clear. So, adding that to your heroic leap into the face of Objectivist glory here in your first OL post, poor speaking skills is a fairly good speculation. May I suggest working on your manner of presentation? You might actually convince a person of an idea instead of "trouncing" him (so-called) and, who knows, he might even vote for you.

Politicians amuse me. Unsuccessful but persistent politicians amuse me more. Preachers do too - especially Objectivist preachers.

(I once knew a Protestant preacher in Brazil who would ask you to bring him the Gideon Bible from your hotel room for him to take away. They have Gideons down there just like here. He said the Gideons would replace it. Imagine that. A preacher who steals the word of God and gets you to steal it for him to boot. I don't know why I just thought of that...)

Things like the following also amuse me:

Consider the context of knowledge of those I'm replying to. They ought to know better. What's more, they do know better.

Now how on earth would you know that "they" know better?

You should know better.

Michael

[Ross Barlow]

Michael Russell wrote:

“I’m a[n] … early Stones fan.”

I am as well. In about 1964, I used to fall asleep with my AM radio next to my head, listening to WBZ Boston, the only station in range that would play those raunchy Stones. I still think that their second and third albums originally released in the US were among their very best.

I have long referred to Ron Woods (?) as “that new guy.”

-Ross Barlow.

[Kat]

Wow, this has turned into an ~interesting~ discussion. I'm glad to see all the rockers come out of the woodwork too. Thanks, Victor, for the Beatle tune! As many of you know, I am a major Beatle fan.

Back to the religion thing. Most people are either religious or believe in a higher power, life force, or whatever. It is their thing, not mine. If it gives people comfort, makes them think the world makes sense, or gives them a moral compass... that is their thing. Religion never made sense to me after I stopped believing in Santa Claus.

Despite my own atheism, I do not equate all Muslims with suicide bombers. I also do not think that all Christians blow up abortion clinics. Barbara has covered it well in both her articles on Suicide Bombers and Rage. There is a big difference between your typical believer (the majority of people in this world) and those who cause that type of death and destruction we saw on 9/11. Yes, they are irrational religionists, but it goes beyond that. They have surrendered their reason to a group or cause other than themselves. Life no longer is a value.

Fanaticism is at the root of all evil.

Kat

[Rich Engle]

I'd like to say I didn't get the jihadist thing, but I did; kneejerk stuff like that is the calling card of the socially sour. Always so angry ! So ready to pull any box off of the shelf and stick someone in it.

It's alright with me, perfectly fine! I know that people (at least the ones that bring me joy) are generally very perceptive, and sensitive. Meaning, they pick up a sourpuss tone real quick (either consciously or subconsciously) when they read things. And then, it's fight or flight- they either engage, or they stop reading the person. Either way, not a sweet interface.

I used to write a lot of stuff with a good more bite than Mr. Damage. I changed a lot of that because it's too easy, and I noticed that. Real dialoguing takes a lot more work than just walking in and shooting up the bar.

When you have to work harder, it's usually for something that's better than what you've been going at.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Rich Engle

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Rich,

Don't worry about that. Get back to your flying lessons and that book on explosives. You have work to do.

Michael

[Rich Engle]

They say if I blow myself up, I get to shag a bunch of virgins.

I don't see what their whole thing is with virgins. I think it's a self-esteem issue with these guys, some kind of control thing. I prefer experienced lovers; the virgin thing would try my patience terribly- it would be months before I could get into the real heavy kink, and there'd be all kinds of ancillary technical issues, instruction, and so on.

I do kind of enjoy blowing things up, it's cathartic. But we do it differently over at my place- it has to have purpose. For instance... one of the things I ended up with through my divorce was a DVD player- it was quite new and this was good. I'm not implying mystical stuff here, but you would've thought- the second I got it over to the Atomic Playboy Palace, it started skipping and freezing; something you absolutely can't have if you're watching action, like a kung fu movie, or maybe "The Boondock Saints" (as it was in this incident). It finally did it one time too many, and judgment was passed. Around 2am this was, and we dragged it out the front door by its cord, like the mad animal it was. We then strategically positioned it near the right rear wheel of the 1973 Lincoln Continental 2-door (460 engine), lit up the tires and applied tribal sanction in the form of blistering torque. The spray of burning parts, the launch into the street, the still-glowing chunk of circuit board at the end- this was a moment of glory, and, I daresay, justice. I definitely felt a mild spiritual cleansing.

Does this mean, being the jihadist religionist that I am, that I disrespect man's technical achievements? No. I just have very high quality standards, and know when patience has turned to stupidity. You make the best of it.

Oops, time for afternoon prayers.

[Guest Damage Inc.]

Wayne (Mr. Marginal-Damage),

I am starting to get amused.

Before the fun stuff, let me say that I checked you out scanning a Google search. I do admire the way you stood up for Victor during that silly plagiary stuff. (btw - He has been soliciting patience as regards you. I think he likes you...)

Patience? Victor hasn't said that to me, Michael. Do you really think you know, Victor? Do you really think, Victor, doesn't agree with me on my assessment of Rich? Our friendship goes back 13 years. Enough said.

Now, on with the show. Seems like you got the itch for elective politics. I never heard of anyone getting elected insulting his constituency. I don't know your demeanor when stumping, but your Freedom Party results are pretty clear. So, adding that to your heroic leap into the face of Objectivist glory here in your first OL post, poor speaking skills is a fairly good speculation. May I suggest working on your manner of presentation? You might actually convince a person of an idea instead of "trouncing" him (so-called) and, who knows, he might even vote for you.

Do you know, Amber Pawlik? I use to have bitter debates about Objectivism with her on Wendy McElroy's ifeminist.com website. Today she's an Objectivist. Now, I'm not suggesting that I singlehandedly caused her to change her mind. But, I can say that I think I may have had a small influence.

Politicians amuse me. Unsuccessful but persistent politicians amuse me more. Preachers do too - especially Objectivist preachers.

Interesting mixed bag. Objectivist preachers are usually arm-chair critics of Politics. I've met many Objectivists who - shamefully - are status quo conservatives when it comes to politics. Not me. I have the courage of my convictions and will not hide my views.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Michael Stuart Kelly

[Victor Pross]

"Victor, doesn't agree with me on my assessment of Rich? Our friendship goes back 13 years."

Oh, gawwwd, I have enough on my plate now. Pleeease leave me outta this! Damage and I have never conversed about Rich-- not in the manner he is indicating here. What Damage [why am I calling him 'Damage?'] is talking about is our general conversations of actual whacko mystics [and other fun subjects] going on for 13 years---which I don't grant to Rich. I like Rich, and if I didn't--I would not--would not--address him. But I do. Plus, I posted opnely that the worse that can be said is "rationalism"--not whacko-ism, and I said so to his face [well, his posting photo, actually]. Rich, I love you, man!

Victor

Edited August 30, 2006 by Michael Stuart Kelly

[Guest Damage Inc.]

I'd like to say I didn't get the jihadist thing, but I did; kneejerk stuff like that is the calling card of the socially sour. Always so angry ! So ready to pull any box off of the shelf and stick someone in it.

It's alright with me, perfectly fine! I know that people (at least the ones that bring me joy) are generally very perceptive, and sensitive. Meaning, they pick up a sourpuss tone real quick (either consciously or subconsciously) when they read things. And then, it's fight or flight- they either engage, or they stop reading the person. Either way, not a sweet interface.

I used to write a lot of stuff with a good more bite than Mr. Damage. I changed a lot of that because it's too easy, and I noticed that. Real dialoguing takes a lot more work than just walking in and shooting up the bar.

When you have to work harder, it's usually for something that's better than what you've been going at.

LOL. I have many non-Objectivist friends, Rich. And yet I still do take my values seriously. You're not a neophyte to Objectivism. I took you to task for being irrational. You haven't proven me wrong.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Wayne,

Could you please specify what you considered irrational in the post by Rich you just quoted?

It's colorful, I'll give you that, but I see no irrationality there.

He's talking about the attitudes of posters, including himself, in case you didn't understand it correctly.

I'm glad you were amused, but I don't see that either.

Michael

[gary williams]

I would like to take this time to appologize for my little tirade earlier.

For the briefest of moments I thought Damage was actually Yoko Ono and well, I have been waiting a long time to give her a piece of my mind!

My fault! I saw his picture on SOLOP and they do sorta look alike!

Of course, I should not even discuss Rich at all. Him shooting John Lennon and all!

gw

[Victor Pross]

Damage may be the love child of Yoko Yono and Mark David Chapman, actually.

[CNA]

Gary, no apologies. As Victor has said, I also don't want to get caught up in all of this stuff with Rich and what's going on. This is one of the reasons I haven't responded to it. But I do now just want to say that obviously you were definitely upset and defending a friend. I can understand that. He is also my friend. But I think equating him to the terrorists of the 9/11 crap was a bit much. He is religious and that is his choice. He is doing what he thinks is best for him. He's not here to please others and do what others thinks is best for him even if they seriously condemn him for it. Rich is a cool guy. He has a great sense of humor and he can get me to laugh to the point my tummy hurts sometimes and the same with you and the same with Victor. You all can make me laugh and smile and all of you can offer great conversation in specific ways, sometimes about the oddest of subjects !!

But obviously Damage's remarks were intentionally made to invoke anger and hostility and to get a rise out of everyone. Comments such as that are designed for one specific effect and that is to invoke anger, hostility, button pushing, etc., and it obviously worked for some. Don't fall for it is all I have to say. You can see right through it. My mother is notorious for button pushing. For me, I just sit back and laugh at her. She can get a serious rise out of many people. She's tried many many many times with me and it has never worked. Why? Because I know what her intentions are and what she is ultimately looking for. She doesn't try to push buttons with me anymore. But in the past when she has attempted it, literally I would just look at her and say, "Woman, you can't be serious; you know it's not going to work." When I say that, it usually will stop it in its tracks. She knows I see right through her. But the few times she tries to keep at it, the button pushing comments just roll off my back. Why? Because I really couldn't give a shit.

Rich is this way. Words won't hurt him. This is obvious by his posts so far. He doesn't give a shit and is making fun of it. He is getting a laugh out of it.

Gary, keep at it, the intro/extro, q & a, look for evidence of it in your own life, your experiences, past, definitely the present, name it/identify it and why. It will take soon enough, trust me. Good job so far !!!

Angie

Edited August 31, 2006 by CNA

[CNA]

Victor, it looks like our little Woodstock Love Fest may be going strong again !! Wooohooo, bring it on, Baby ;)

[Victor Pross]

Rich, if you do believe in God, [i really don't know] there might be a case to establish that Angie is not just a random collection of atoms and is, truly, the product of intelligent design, and that this being has a great esthetic taste! Somebody stop me!

All you need is love! All you need is love! Love is all you need!!

Edited August 31, 2006 by Victor Pross

[Guest Damage Inc.]

All you need is love! All you need is love! Love is all you need!!

[CNA]

I'm a huge Rush fan and always will be.

I first discover RUSH from an objectivist's bio in NYC. I remembered RUSH from HS and bought Chronicles just to understand his praise for them. Glad I did. Now I play it loud as a pick me up anytime I can. The best inspirational music I have ever heard.

Gordon, I so agree with you. Rush has been a part of my life since -- oh, my, I can remember as early back as 8th grade listening to them but more so through highschool. My dad used to listen to them heavily as well as a friend of mine named Russ. I agree that they are a huge pick me up. I have all of their albums and listen to them often. One specific song that I enjoy listening to and will blare it if I am alone in the house or with certain friends and that song is The Spirit of Radio from their album Permanent Waves. It's a great song to listen to in the morning with the sun shining through the windows with the windows open and fresh air going through the house. It reminds me so much of when I was younger and all those wonderful feelings and joy when it comes to enjoying life. I still feel this way. Unfortunately, I've never been to a concert of theirs but one day I will. They were here in my hometown playing about a year and a half ago and wasn't able to go. But next time around, I will do what I can to get backstage passes for one very specific and selfish meeting. That would be to meet up with the drummer Neil Pearte. He's truly one of a very few.

Angie

[Victor Pross]

"But next time around, I will do what I can to get backstage passes for one very specific and selfish meeting. That would be to meet up with the drummer Neil Pearte. He's truly one of a very few."

Take me with you.

[gary williams]

Thanks Firecracker!

So you do not tolerate button pushers? That's good information to know, in case I ever tried something like that with you!

And yeah, I will keep on keeping on! As long as it does not interfer with my Voodoo sessions!

Dang it! I got a damn Beatles song in my head now and it won't go away!

But it is starting to grow on me!!!!!!

gw