How do you live without giving away your life?

[Bryce]

How do you - in the literal, not general, definition of "you" - live rationally? Or, if you capitulate to a spouse, in business, or to the state, how do you live with yourself?

[BaalChatzaf]

How do you - in the literal, not general, definition of "you" - live rationally? Or, if you capitulate to a spouse, in business, or to the state, how do you live with yourself?

One way is to get even in sneaky ways. A little low calorie subversion goes a long way. And it is fun, too.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Brant Gaede]

Just realize life is short and stay on point and centered. Don't let your focus get diffused if you're young and think you have all the time in the world; you don't. As for a spouse, you both keep talking until things get ironed out. Here's what Nathaniel Branden might suggest depending on who he's suggesting it to: Get a motel/hotel room for 24 hours for you and yours. No TV. Nobody leaves. Have food brought in. Sex is okay. Talk, one at a time--let who's talking talk. No interruptions. No verbal attacks. Do not leave or stop the exercise because you seem to run out of things to say or any such excuse to pack up and go home. Sleep is what you do if you have to but start the whole thing early in the day. If you can't think of anything to say stay with each other until you do. It's a your turn my turn situation. You must be willing to sit on it if nothing seems to be happening. You don't leave or turn on the TV or wander around or go out for a drink or swim in the God-damn pool.

The proper way to capitulate is not to argue in the first place. Capitulation in an argument is like a self defense technique, a way of hurting the other which is stupid for a relationship. You both lose. Another thing, also from Branden, no fighting or arguing in the bedroom. The bedroom is only for good things.

--Brant

[Brant Gaede]

How do you - in the literal, not general, definition of "you" - live rationally? Or, if you capitulate to a spouse, in business, or to the state, how do you live with yourself?

If you want to live rationally you have to be rational and act accordingly. Your knowledge may not be perfect and you will make mistakes. That's life. The rational part isn't easy nor is the integrity part. If you capitulate in business were you wrong to? Then why did you? To the state? Did you tell the Gestapo where the Jews were? What are we talking about? Capitulation and then living with yourself? Acknowledge that you did something wrong if you did then try to make it right and not do it again. You confess your sins to yourself and don't pretend you didn't sin.

--Brant

[9thdoctor]

Schopenhauer wrote that “marrying means to halve one's rights and double one's duties”. You need to recognize that going in. Social intercourse involves trade-offs, the alternative is what? To seek out a life like Robinson Crusoe’s, alone on your own island?

[Xray]

How do you - in the literal, not general, definition of "you" - live rationally? Or, if you capitulate to a spouse, in business, or to the state, how do you live with yourself?

Hi Bryce,

The postulate to live 'rationally' is from Objectvism, but the problem is that 'rational' actually refers to means and ends in terms of a chosen goal. For example, a bank robber who knows how to circumvent an alarm system would act 'rational' too. It says nothing about the goal itself.

I would leave 'rational' out of it completely, and also what this philospopher or that says about ars recte vivendi and such.

I'm no Objectivst but would still like to share here what has personally worked for me.

The title you chose is "How do you live without giving away your life?"

One day, we will all have to give away our life since it will end. From this short appearance here on earth, it follows for me that life is too short to sweat the small stuff.

I don't expect from others to give me what I'm not prepared to give myself. For example, I can't criticize others for being impolite if I myself am rude.

Never take anything for granted is another principle I have: Not the hot water which comes from the faucet, nor that I have a roof over my head and don't need to feel hunger, nor anything else.

Empathy, caring and appreciation go a long way if you want to live in harmomy. I try to put myself in the other person's shoes whenever possible.

I also like to help others. Not because I'm a 'selfless altruist' but because it creates an atmosphere of mutual appreciation which makes me feel happy.

The word "capitulate" you used points to a power struggle where one feels defeated. I absolutely try to avoid this in a relationship, with friendships and at work. Cultivating the art of compromise is a very effective way not to get embroiled in such fights.

Of course there will always be situations when things don't turn out as planned, but such is life.

And last but not least: humor. Being able not to take oneself too seriously, to see the comical side of some situations goes a long way too.

Edited November 5, 2009 by Xray

[klnielsen]

Hi Bryce,

That's an excellent question, thanks for asking.

I capitulate to a spouse. I am ill and dependent on him for emotional connection (what I get of it) and financial support. He hasn't made any (possibly idle) divorce threats since I started recovering, in fact, he's really come around these past few years; but that trump card of his is always in the back of my mind.

My coping strategy primarily consists of working toward personal empowerment, with the goal of eventually shifting the power balance. First, I work on my health. The cure for my illness was found a little over five years ago, and I was fortunate that my doctor was willing to administer it and that my spouse was willing to tolerate the lifestyle interventions it required (it took a lot of willfulness on my part on both counts). I was a subject in the cohort study (it is about to enter Phase III trials) and I have about 80% of my life back so far.

Second, I work on my self esteem. Being dependent and having my ambitions frustrated is damaging enough in and of itself. But I have the kind of fatigue-based "syndrome" that is often mistaken for something between depression and outright excuse making, and the loss of friends, disrespect of my spouse, and so forth left me feeling I couldn't deal with life. I lost all control of the situation as a result. Add to that the fact that the illness directly impacts brain functioning, and I'm sure you can imagine the experience I have had with the consequences of a disordered mind. Nathaniel Branden's books have helped me immmesurably. I do some sentence completion exercises every day.

Third, I work on my marketable skills. I know that someday I will finally fulfill my dream of having a career, not just a job, and every effort I make toward it makes me feel more human. Not to mention that, since this household lives by the "golden rule," my financial independence would give me the one thing I need most--the clout to call his bluff. So I work on my code and study every day and make sure I get the time to do it.

My secondary strategy consists of, as loath as I am to admit it, rationalizations. Those take over where my strength ends. I remind myself that I chose the lesser of evils and that my ultimate failure would help no one, not me and not him. I also promise myself that once I get through this, I will be to some degree the one in charge, and both our lives will be better for it. I know that sounds arrogant, but it fits with our established patterns. I daydream about the future too, but I try not to give in to too much of that.

[Bryce]

Thank you for the responses - and I don't have spousal issues, I just asked for context - but I understand now that I was vague. In this instance of capitulation, I'm referring to falsely admitting guilt in any form (lying, paying, losing property, or otherwise). I capitulate in every transaction as a requisite of employment, either for sales or "customer service", while my other capitulations (really, alms and protection monies) go to the state. I'm unwilling to stand for reason when confronted by irrationality because I'm afraid of being unemployed or going to prison (or being shot). But shouldn't I be willing to defend my life regardless of the obscurity of any issue that threatens it? If not, why?

"Give him an inch and he'll take a mile."

Edited November 6, 2009 by Bryce

[Bryce]

Before this discussion goes down a different avenue, I want to establish that I'm only interested in your ability to live without becoming a sacrifice (or part of one). I want to know who among you live as heroically as a striker (without striking) and how.

[Selene]

Before this discussion goes down a different avenue, I want to establish that I'm only interested in your ability to live without becoming a sacrifice (or part of one). I want to know who among you live as heroically as a striker (without striking) and how.

Bryce:

It can be done, but it is difficult with a family.

If, no young children are involved, the movie Off the Map is one option.

Finally, do you mean live as a striker and live well?

Adam

pondering

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I want to know who among you live as heroically as a striker (without striking) and how.

Bryce,

The striking is not the heroic part. The producing and thinking for yourself are.

Striking is a reaction to others. Producing and thinking for yourself are things that come from within yourself in relation to reality, not in relation to other people.

Striking can be used (as in AS) as a tactic in a heroic mission. But there is nothing innately heroic about striking, nor is it the only response available to producers when dealing with parasites.

Michael

[Bryce]

I didn't mean to emphasize striking and I apologize for not being clear. I wanted to know if a man like Howard Roark or John Galt lived. But I have my answer. And, Selene, yes.

Striking can be used (as in AS) as a tactic in a heroic mission. But there is nothing innately heroic about striking, nor is it the only response available to producers when dealing with parasites.

Michael,

I understand that after disobedience violence remains the response.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Bryce

[Selene]

I didn't mean to emphasize striking and I apologize for not being clear. I wanted to know if a man like Howard Roark or John Galt lived. But I have my answer. And, Selene, yes.

Striking can be used (as in AS) as a tactic in a heroic mission. But there is nothing innately heroic about striking, nor is it the only response available to producers when dealing with parasites.

Michael,

I understand that after disobedience violence remains the response.

Bryce:

Wow which of my musings is the yes to?

Adam

[Bryce]

Bryce:

Wow which of my musings is the yes to?

Adam

Finally, do you mean live as a striker and live well?

Adam

pondering

[Selene]

Bryce:

Wow which of my musings is the yes to?

Adam

Finally, do you mean live as a striker and live well?

Adam

pondering

Bryce:

My answer would be yes.

In essence, living well, is a very personal place. Real rugged individualism. The hardest aspect is getting off the grid.

For example, if I had a child today, there is absolutely no possibility of my getting that child a social security number. Our child would make that choice as a young adult which is an age that is achieved by each individual child. I can accept some voluntary or society posited age of consent for certain "rights". Although, I will never be comfortable with civil rights applying at different ages.

Adam

Adam