Disgusting - School kids taught to praise Obama

Selene · September 29, 2009

Another example arose:

1) this is, apparently, a public school;

2)apparently, the teacher uploaded this to the internet, but I do not know when; and

3) apparently, the teacher filmed this on November 4th, 2008, when, apparently by her admission, she held a mock election for President in her 3rd grade class.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=fU_45zvR__U

Incredible.

Adam

Post Script: still forgets how to do the "b" lol

Edited September 29, 2009 by Selene

Xray · October 1, 2009

... or is it Seig Heil?
In Germany, kids sang hymns to The Leader too.

The spelling is Sieg Heil.

Yes they sang hymns to the leader - they had to.

I personally am against singing hymns to anyone or anything - be it a person or a country.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Xray

Brant Gaede · October 1, 2009

... or is it Seig Heil?
In Germany, kids sang hymns to The Leader too.
The spelling is Sieg Heil.
Yes they sang hymns to the leader - they had to.
I personally am against singing hymns to anyone or anything - be it a person or a country.

"Oh, Canada ..."

--Brant

Michael Stuart Kelly · October 1, 2009

I think Brazil got it right. If you have to sing a national anthem, at least make it tiddlywink music.

Xray · October 1, 2009

Ich glaube dass man sagt: Ein Volk, ein Barack, ein Reich!

Wer sagt das? Ich sage so was bestimmt nicht. :rolleyes:

Xray · October 1, 2009

[quote name='BaalChatzaf' date='29 September 2009 - 05:39 PM' timestamp='1254263950'

Und er sagt wir kann es tun! Was will komm nun?

Ba'al Chatzaf

It's "Wir können es tun! Was wird nun kommen?, or "Yes we can" translated by "Ja wir können!"

A classic example of an empty phrase used by politicians all over the world like to use when addressing the public.

"Yes we can!" Can what? Make America great again? Bring peace everywhere? "You can do it if you really want!"- sounds bit like those "motivation coaches".

In short, everyone can fill those empty speech bubbles with whatever they want to project into them, and that's the real purpose of such phrases.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Xray

Xray · October 1, 2009

Do they have pedagogic standards in Europe? Additionally, will the European countries apply those standards to Muslims? And finally, it is really nice to see the Germany had the balls to elect a Ronald Reagan in drag...Merkel is now the leader of the free world because our marxist President is destroying America from within.
Adam

They have a variety of standards in various countries, often differing from school to school in one country.

Even if one day a common standard should be worked out, it will never be "objective", but something which has been chosen and agreed on by people.

As for applying pedagogic standards to those who don't agree with them, the parents who send their children to our kindergarten have to accept them, if not, they are free to leave.

We have it easier than schools here, since as opposed to schools, attending kindergarten is not compulsory.

In the past few days, we visited a very modern Swedish school which imo has a great pedagocic concept.

When presenting the school to us, the headmaster spoke about their basic values. She did not say they were "objective" values, but theirs, and explained why they chose them as their basic values.

And don't be so quick to praise Merkel. She, like every other leader in the world, is a Statist.
Ba'al Chatzaf

Jmpo, but I have never expected anything from any politician, whatever the political couleur.

Who chooses to go into politics? It is people who love to be in power, whether they show it openly or not.

They interest me more as objects of study; Merkel has played her cards quite well, rising from ancient Kohl protegée to where she is now. I think many underestimated her, and she took advantage of that.

Obama saw soon who he was dealing with by commenting "She's smart". She is. Both Merkel and Obama are far more intelligent than their predecessors Schroeder and Bush. So it is less likely that embarrassing nonsense will be said by Merkel and Obama. It always made me cringe when Schroeder opened his mouth.

An aside: while Obama can say of Merkel "She smart", it does not work the other way round; for Merkel can't say at a press conference about Obama "He's smart". For Obama is the top dog, the boss in that powerplay, and the underdog does not have the right to comment on the top dog's intellectual qualities.

But Obama is of course smart too. This is not the type who would ask "What does Condoleeza say?" like Bush. Can you imagine Obama asking "What would Hillary say?" when he wants to make a decision?

It looks more like Obama is interested in getting his former rival H. Clinton to fade into the wallpaper, so to speak.

But Hillary won't whine in public I suppose, but will keep a straight face, having a lot of practice in that, considering her private history with husband Bill.

Her supreme value is also power and everything else has to take a back seat.

Her deal with Bill back then was "I'll keep my mouth shut and not wash dirty laundry in public, and your part of the deal will be to support me in my political career". It almost worked as far as Hillary reaching the supreme position of political power, but her rival Obama just happened to have more charisma than her.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Xray

Selene · October 1, 2009

Do they have pedagogic standards in Europe? Additionally, will the European countries apply those standards to Muslims? And finally, it is really nice to see the Germany had the balls to elect a Ronald Reagan in drag...Merkel is now the leader of the free world because our marxist President is destroying America from within.
Adam
They have a variety of standards in various countries, often differing from school to school in one country.
Even if one day a common standard should be worked out, it will never be "objective", but something which has been chosen and agreed on by people.
As for applying pedagogic standards to those who don't agree with them, the parents who send their children to our kindergarten have to accept them, if not, they are free to leave.
We have it easier than schools here, since as opposed to schools, attending kindergarten is not compulsory.
In the past few days, we visited a very modern Swedish school which imo has a great pedagocic concept.
When presenting the school to us, the headmaster spoke about their basic values. She did not say they were "objective" values, but theirs, and explained why they chose them as their basic values.
And don't be so quick to praise Merkel. She, like every other leader in the world, is a Statist.
Ba'al Chatzaf
Jmpo, but I have never expected anything from any politician, whatever the political couleur.
Who chooses to go into politics? It is people who love to be in power, whether they show it openly or not.
They interest me more as objects of study; Merkel has played her cards quite well, rising from ancient Kohl protegée to where she is now. I think many underestimated her, and she took advantage of that.
Obama saw soon who he was dealing with by commenting "She's smart". She is. Both Merkel and Obama are far more intelligent than their predecessors Schroeder and Bush. So it is less likely that embarrassing nonsense will be said by Merkel and Obama. It always made me cringe when Schroeder opened his mouth.
An aside: while Obama can say of Merkel "She smart", it does not work the other way round; for Merkel can't say at a press conference about Obama "He's smart". For Obama is the top dog, the boss in that powerplay, and the underdog does not have the right to comment on the top dog's intellectual qualities.
But Obama is of course smart too. This is not the type who would ask "What does Condoleeza say?" like Bush. Can you imagine Obama asking "What would Hillary say?" when he wants to make a decision?
It looks more like Obama is interested in getting his former rival H. Clinton to fade into the wallpaper, so to speak.
But Hillary won't whine in public I suppose, but will keep a straight face, having a lot of practice in that, considering her private history with husband Bill.
Her supreme value is also power and everything else has to take a back seat.
Her deal with Bill back then was "I'll keep my mouth shut and not wash dirty laundry in public, and your part of the deal will be to support me in my political career". It almost worked as far as Hillary reaching the supreme position of political power, but her rival Obama just happened to have more charisma than her.

xray:

Thank you. That was a thoughtful post. A few places where I would disagree with you, but we could argue cogently.

"When presenting the school to us, the headmaster spoke about their basic values. She did not say they were "objective" values, but theirs, and explained why they chose them as their basic values."

Based on your comfort zone with the headmaster [amazing how some allegedly "sexist" terms do not get attacked], would you be comfortable if Ayn had stated that these were the basic values of "man qua man"?

Adam

Xray · October 1, 2009

xray:
Thank you. That was a thoughtful post. A few places where I would disagree with you, but we could argue cogently.
"When presenting the school to us, the headmaster spoke about their basic values. She did not say they were "objective" values, but theirs, and explained why they chose them as their basic values."
Based on your comfort zone with the headmaster [amazing how some allegedly "sexist" terms do not get attacked], would you be comfortable if Ayn had stated that these were the basic values of "man qua man"?
Adam

Re headmaster/headmistress: on the ferry boat in Göteborg harbor, a good while after writing the post, it suddenly occurred to me that had made the language mistake by writing 'headmaster' instead of 'headmistress'. Too late to edit.

Based on your comfort zone with the headmaster [amazing how some allegedly "sexist" terms do not get attacked], would you be comfortable if Ayn had stated that these were the basic values of "man qua man"?

No problem if Ayn Rand had stated that they were her values (too). But not if she had claimed these values to be objective, since values are always the result of a personal choice by a valuer.

Remember in Atlas Shrugged, in the little brave new world of Galt's Gulch, they have gold and silver as currency, claiming that they only accept 'objective values'.

But they're of course not objective values. Gold and silver are valued highly by Galt & Co, that's as far as it goes. But they can't be 'objective' values, a one set fits all everyone "ought to" value.

Gold won't get your stomach full on a deserted island, and it is somewhat ironic that Mulligan's first name is Midas, the Greek legend showing what gold can not do.

There also exist people to whom their gold and riches are of no value at all.

So there is no getting around the fact that people attribute value to different things.

Imo Ayn Rand would have made the discussion of her work far clearer if she had simply stated "My personal values are".

Edited October 1, 2009 by Xray

Selene · October 1, 2009

x-ray:

We either carry on this discussion/argument without you re-stating your "objective Rand" line of argument. Trust me we all know your position, frankly, I think I could argue your position much more effectively, but I stipulate to knowing your position.

"Remember in Atlas Shrugged, in the little brave new world of Galt's Gulch, they have gold and silver as currency, claiming that they only accept 'objective values'."

Please just answer these questions with a yes or a no, I will not accept a maybe.

1. Does currency have to be "pegged" to an objective value?

Adam

thoughtfully waiting for an answer

sbeaulieu · October 2, 2009

Funny, my wife just informed me that the Hawaii public school system is implementing a teacher furlough program on account of not having the money to fund a normal school year.

Clearly, the left hand is not talking to the right.

~ Shane

Xray · October 2, 2009

x-ray:
We either carry on this discussion/argument without you re-stating your "objective Rand" line of argument. Trust me we all know your position, frankly, I think I could argue your position much more effectively, but I stipulate to knowing your position.
"Remember in Atlas Shrugged, in the little brave new world of Galt's Gulch, they have gold and silver as currency, claiming that they only accept 'objective values'."
Please just answer these questions with a yes or a no, I will not accept a maybe.
1. Does currency have to be "pegged" to an objective value?
Adam
thoughtfully waiting for an answer

1. No.

For it does not even become an objective value when pegged, but remains merely an agreed-upon medium for exchanging goods, whether the currency is gold, silver, coconuts or camels which a desert sheik exchanges for a bride.

Edited October 2, 2009 by Xray

Selene · October 2, 2009

x-ray:
We either carry on this discussion/argument without you re-stating your "objective Rand" line of argument. Trust me we all know your position, frankly, I think I could argue your position much more effectively, but I stipulate to knowing your position.
"Remember in Atlas Shrugged, in the little brave new world of Galt's Gulch, they have gold and silver as currency, claiming that they only accept 'objective values'."
Please just answer these questions with a yes or a no, I will not accept a maybe.
1. Does currency have to be "pegged" to an objective value?
Adam
thoughtfully waiting for an answer
1. No.
For it does not even become an objective value when pegged, but remains merely an agreed-upon medium for exchanging goods, whether the currency is gold, silver, coconuts or camels which a desert sheik exchanges for a bride.

xray:

I have to demand that Michael stops using that invisible ink on my posts.

"Please just answer these questions with a yes or a no, I will not accept a maybe."

So currency does not have to be pegged to an objective value.

Now you can answer the following with a short paragraph of less than 100 words:

Describe how you and I would execute a contract that would exchange the followings "values"...

Party A ----- Me has a drug that prevents polio.

Party B ----- You have two children and you wish to have them protected

Adam

BaalChatzaf · October 2, 2009

Describe how you and I would execute a contract that would exchange the followings "values"...
Party A ----- Me has a drug that prevents polio.
Party B ----- You have two children and you wish to have them protected
Adam

Stop me if I am wrong. This sounds like a straightforward exercise in supply and demand.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Selene · October 2, 2009

Describe how you and I would execute a contract that would exchange the followings "values"...
Party A ----- Me has a drug that prevents polio.
Party B ----- You have two children and you wish to have them protected
Adam
Stop me if I am wrong. This sounds like a straightforward exercise in supply and demand.
Ba'al Chatzaf

What currency does she supply when I meet her demand?

1. Does currency have to be "pegged" to an objective value? Answer: No

Wampum? Sparrow feathers?

Adam

Ed Hudgins · October 2, 2009

Ich glaube dass man sagt: Ein Volk, ein Barack, ein Reich!
Wer sagt das? Ich sage so was bestimmt nicht.

X-ray - Die Obamajungen sagt, "Ein Volk, ein Barack, ein Reich."

Ich sage, "Freiheit!"

Xray · October 2, 2009

So currency does not have to be pegged to an objective value.
Now you can answer the following with a short paragraph of less than 100 words:
Describe how you and I would execute a contract that would exchange the followings "values"...
Party A ----- Me has a drug that prevents polio.
Party B ----- You have two children and you wish to have them protected
Adam

Ba'al Chatzaf:
Stop me if I am wrong. This sounds like a straightforward exercise in supply and demand.

That's how I see it too. The children would be of subjective value (to me), so I would of course try to acquire the medicine for them.

Selene:
So currency does not have to be pegged to an objective value.

It can't be pegged to any "objective" value at all because values are always the result of subjective choice.

Selene:
Describe how you and I would execute a contract that would exchange the followings "values"...

The type of contract would depend on the circumstances.

But one thing is for certain: neither party engaging in the trade would expect to get a lower value in return for what they are willing to give.

Wampum? Sparrow feathers?

It does not matter what it is; if both parties should agree to use it as currency, it would work.

Edited October 3, 2009 by Xray

Xray · October 2, 2009

X-ray - Die Obamajungen sagt, "Ein Volk, ein Barack, ein Reich."
Ich sage, "Freiheit!"

Oh, ich bin sicher Obama findet "Freiheit" auch ganz toll und hat das Wort bestimmt in seinen Reden schon verwendet.

[Transl. "I say 'Freedom'!" (Ed Hudgins)

Oh, I'm sure Obama too thinks "Freedom" is real great and has used the term in his speeches. ]

Unless linked to concrete situations (Freedom from what? Freedom to do what?) "Freedom" is a mere "fudge word", a floating abstraction.

Edited October 3, 2009 by Xray

Selene · October 3, 2009

I, as the owner of the Polio vaccine, will only accept gold of a particular standard [caret value] that can be assayed for its value, and that all the other people in the community I trade in must accept by agreement.

Now what xray?

All you possess is wampum and sparrow feathers.

Adam

Xray · October 3, 2009

I, as the owner of the Polio vaccine, will only accept gold of a particular standard [caret value] that can be assayed for its value, and that all the other people in the community I trade in must accept by agreement.
Now what xray?
All you possess is wampum and sparrow feathers.
Adam

Then I won't get the medicine from you, plain and simple, unless I offer what you subjectively value: gold having so and so much carat. Your point being?

You are talking about a deal in trading. The principle is basically the same when little Johnny says to little Billy in the sandbox: "You can get the big shovel from me if you give me some of the jelly beans you have in your pocket".

Either Billy agrees to the deal or he doesn't.

Another point: the fluctuating market value of things illustrates once more that objective values just don't exist, however you slice it. Gold prices can plummet, etc. It is a question of supply and demand. No objective value can exist "out there".

To get back to your example: since not getting the vaccine for my children would have far more serious consequences that Billy not getting the shovel from Johnny, I would probably try to bargain with you, but would not be optimistic to succeed, for I'm not good at bargaining.

Here's another opportunity to put Rand's words to the test by applying them to a specfic situation: "The ultimate value is one's life." Whose life? My children's life too I suppose?

Where do we take it from there?

Edited October 3, 2009 by Xray

Brant Gaede · October 3, 2009

Ich glaube dass man sagt: Ein Volk, ein Barack, ein Reich!
Wer sagt das? Ich sage so was bestimmt nicht.
X-ray - Die Obamajungen sagt, "Ein Volk, ein Barack, ein Reich."
Ich sage, "Freiheit!"

Omp ban far onasm! Grettle de bosttch!

--Brant

Selene · October 5, 2009

In the interests of accuracy, my statement in Post Number 47 no longer applies under today's refusal to grant cert to the Florida ACLU case:

Supreme Court declines to review constitutionality of Fla. Pledge of Allegiance law

By Associated Press

10:16 AM EDT, October 5, 2009

The Supreme Court has rejected an appeal to review a Florida law that requires public school students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance each day unless they have their parents' written permission excusing them.

The justices declined Monday an appeal filed by the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida on behalf of a high school student removed from his math class because he remained seated during the pledge.

A federal appeals court upheld most of the law. The ACLU said that ruling, if left undisturbed, would undermine the Supreme Court's 1943 ruling that schoolchildren could not be forced to salute the flag and say the pledge.

Florida argued that the law, by giving parents the right to have their children excused, does not violate the First Amendment.

Adam

Edited October 5, 2009 by Selene

Ed Hudgins · October 5, 2009

Obama sagt, "Freiheit ist Sklaverei."

Philip Coates · October 5, 2009

> coconuts or camels which a desert sheik exchanges for a bride

Xray, on another thread you expressed disagreement with Rand on sexual and romantic matters. Do you have a view on which of the above two choices would be most -objectively- appropriate for purchasing women? :mellow:

.

PS, I have no idea what Ed just said, but I'm guessing his view is coconuts.

Edited October 5, 2009 by Philip Coates

Dragonfly · October 5, 2009

X-ray - Die Obamajungen sagt, "Ein Volk, ein Barack, ein Reich."

"Die Jungen sagt"? Two errors in three words, time to brush up your German...

Disgusting - School kids taught to praise Obama

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