mcmanusd Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Hello, I've browsed here a few times before and decided to join. I'm nearing 50 (dare I admit that here ;) ) and had read Fountainhead, Atlas Shrugged, We The Living, Anthem, and most of Ayn Rand's works many years ago while a teenager and in high school. I still like to re-read Atlas from time to time, my original copy purchased in 1977 is well, very loved but worn and tattered and I probably need to trade it in for a larger-print version.I read a young lady's post here who was quite young, and she impressed me with her statement of "I've never bought into the popular social scene or "way of life"." Much like myself when I was younger. This still resonates with me. I was married for a very long time, am now divorced, my children grown and gone (yay! empty nester). Still, I see so many people my age who just seem to repeat horrible relationship patterns with multiple divorces (one was hard enough for me), fall in the sack with one after another, and simply hang out in bars. It's a lifestyle I find hard to enjoy. I love my solitude after raising four teenage daughters. After a few attempts at a relationship, and not really finding someone, I've simply decided that singledom is good for me for the time being--perhaps this solitude is good for my soul. I love pursuing some photography and travel, relish being able to sleep in in Saturday mornings, and cooking a really great meal for myself--even if it means I have to freeze some to share with my mom because I hate throwing food away (try cooking for one sometime...it truly is a challenge, can be rather wasteful). Must be a by-product of being a child of parents who survived the Great Depression.I ply my brain at being a technical writer. It's a decent living, I won't get rich off from it, but it pays the bills and then some. I won't go hungry and I won't go homeless. I'm not sure if this is a "good" thing or not, but I've never felt the urge to work simply for a big paycheck or a huge income. I enjoy what I do, the compensation is good enough for me, it's fair and I earn it. As for other hobbies and interests, I love to read--especially biographies, history, travel, and some fiction. Living here in Ohio, I really love taking day road trips, there are so many interesting and historical places I can visit within a few hours (plenty of art museums, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Lake Erie, state parks here are awesome) and I enjoy camping and hiking a lot as well as wine tasting and trying out different cuisines.
Selene Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Donna:Welcome to OL. I have a friend and client in Medina. This is a fine place to explore ideas. It is the only Randian/objectivist place I found that is interesting and challenging.Welcome aboard. Have you read her non-fiction works? I was not sure as you gave her fiction works.Adam
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Donna,A very warm welcome to you.You sound like a very centered person.I love the way you have chosen your values. Right on!Michael
Chris Grieb Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Donna; Welcome! I hope you look into Rand's non-fiction too if you have not.I lived in Ohio at Wright Pat. in Dayton when at the ages of 5-7. I have only flown over since.I hope you enjoy OL.
Ed Hudgins Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Welcome Donna!As you know, the theme of Fountainhead especially is "living for yourself" in the best meaning of that principle, that is, doing what you love, doing what fulfills you, and not worrying about looking over your shoulder all the time to see whether other people, whose standards you might not share and whose judgement you might not respect, think of your lifestyle.I recall the opening of Nietzsche's Also Sprach Zarathustra: "When Zarathustra was thirty years hold, he left his home and the sea of his home and went into the mountains. There he enjoyed his spirit and his solitude..."Of course, with grown children you can enjoy your solitude when you want it but still have the joy of those you love, the best of both worlds!
mcmanusd Posted August 17, 2009 Author Posted August 17, 2009 Thank you for the warm welcomes.Yes, I have read some of Ayn Rand's nonfiction--Romantic Manifesto, Virtue of Selfishness, a number of essays from Philosophy Who Needs It, and Capitalism the Unknown Ideal. I should read more of the nonfiction. I can't even say or remember who even introduced me to Ayn Rand, I just stumbled on it in high school. I've been off on other tangents with reading, actually some Ohio history, but want to get back into reading more Rand. Michael, as for values, sometimes I sometimes wonder if those are the values of a curmudgeon. As I've gotten older, I definitely have gotten more discerning about where and how I spend my time. The young lady's post I read did strike a chord with me. And yes, Ed. I have read *pieces* of Zarasthrustra, but I do have to sheepishly admit it was more from the Cliff notes in college lol. It brings to mind for me Viktor Frankl as well: "Everything can be taken from a man or a woman but one thing: the last of human freedoms to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way." Selene, I sheepishly admit I spent a year in February in New Jersey. Making left hand turns from the right hand lane wasn't exactly an easy skill for me.Chris, I actually lived in the Dayton area for many years, very close to WPAFB.Thanks, Robert. I see you enjoy jazz. I am a freak for Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk, and Wynton Marsalis (Wynton also does some extremely cool classical on trumpet).
Selene Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Donna:Hmm...poking at a WC Fields line? "Selene, I sheepishly admit I spent a year in February in New Jersey." The anecdote that Fields often remarked, "Philadelphia, wonderful town, spent a week there one night" is unsubstantiated.Fields spent his final weeks in a hospital, where a friend stopped by for a visit and caught Fields reading the Bible. He inquired as to why, to which Fields replied, "I'm checking for loopholes.I am a very recent member of one of the most corrupt States in the Union, but it did give women the right to vote up until around 1818.I am also fascinated by our history. What aspects of Ohio history are you immersing yourself in?Also, what freedom or liberty meeting were you at? Adam
Ed Hudgins Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Donna - Viktor Frankl's book Man's Search for Meaning is one of best and most moving piece ever written on freedom and life and the fact that what you make of life--even in a Nazi death camp--is in your control.
mcmanusd Posted August 18, 2009 Author Posted August 18, 2009 Why Adam, I do believe I got caught red-handed. I heard that anecdote quoted before, I believe it was quoted in Dead Man Walking. I believe (but do not have a reference) that he was an atheist, but his estranged wife was a devout Catholic. It seems he didn't want a religious burial and preferred to be cremated. His estranged wife insisted on her way, had a Catholic funeral for him, his mistress had some spiritual reading for his memorial, and he wanted to use his estate to establish a college that had no religious training but the money ended up going to his wife.I did not know women could vote anywhere in 1818. That is interesting. What history interests you?The Ohio history is a fun little effort on my part. I had been reading "Lost Ohio" (author name eludes me right now) and similar books on the varying geographic and cultural regions in the state that discuss the hamlets and townships that have disappeared over time. I've been interested in taking some roadtrips to find some of this arcane history such as the old Ohio Penitentiary in Mansfield (where they shot most of the Shawshank Redemption), the battle of 1812 and Commodore Perry (sites along Lake Erie and Fort Meigs), and contrasts some of the differences in history as well with the Appalachian areas of the state. I've been mulling over an idea just for the sheer fun of it to photograph and possible write about some of this. The diverse history, geography, and culture of this region intrigues me. Can't say I've been at a freedom or liberty meeting. Did I mention something about that?
mcmanusd Posted August 18, 2009 Author Posted August 18, 2009 Yes, very much so. Reading Man's Search was quite a light bulb moment for me during a dark period of my life.
Selene Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Why Adam, I do believe I got caught red-handed. I heard that anecdote quoted before, I believe it was quoted in Dead Man Walking. I believe (but do not have a reference) that he was an atheist, but his estranged wife was a devout Catholic. It seems he didn't want a religious burial and preferred to be cremated. His estranged wife insisted on her way, had a Catholic funeral for him, his mistress had some spiritual reading for his memorial, and he wanted to use his estate to establish a college that had no religious training but the money ended up going to his wife.I did not know women could vote anywhere in 1818. That is interesting. What history interests you?The Ohio history is a fun little effort on my part. I had been reading "Lost Ohio" (author name eludes me right now) and similar books on the varying geographic and cultural regions in the state that discuss the hamlets and townships that have disappeared over time. I've been interested in taking some roadtrips to find some of this arcane history such as the old Ohio Penitentiary in Mansfield (where they shot most of the Shawshank Redemption), the battle of 1812 and Commodore Perry (sites along Lake Erie and Fort Meigs), and contrasts some of the differences in history as well with the Appalachian areas of the state. I've been mulling over an idea just for the sheer fun of it to photograph and possible write about some of this. The diverse history, geography, and culture of this region intrigues me. Can't say I've been at a freedom or liberty meeting. Did I mention something about that?Donna:My bad. It was Marsha who just joined and started with the Split thread. Any American history. Specifically the Civil War and the Revolutionary War - you know guy thing - war blood strategy B) http://www.nps.gov/revwar/about_the_revolution/voting_rights.html Did you know that New Jersey women voted in the 1790s? by Bob Blythe Everyone knows that American women first got the vote in 1920 with the passage of the 19th Amendment. Right? Wrong! Some New Jersey women voted as early as 1776. Historians argue about just what Thomas Jefferson and his colleagues meant when they declared "that all men are created equal." Did the founders mean males only or were there some situations when "men" could mean all humans? What natural or political rights, in their view, did women possess? The unique case of women voters in New Jersey offers some clues. The framers of New Jersey's first constitution in 1776 gave the vote to "all inhabitants of this colony, of full age, who are worth fifty pounds ... and have resided within the county ... for twelve months." The other twelve new states restricted voting to men. Although some have argued that this gender-neutral language was a mistake, most historians agree that the clear intention was to allow some women to vote. Because married women had no property in their own names and were assumed to be represented by their husbands' votes, only single women voted in New Jersey. But, in the 1790s and 1800s, large numbers of unmarried New Jersey women regularly participated in elections and spoke out on political issues. In 1807, the state's legislature ignored the constitution and restricted suffrage to white male citizens who paid taxes. This was largely a result of the Democratic-Republican Party's attempt to unify its factions for the 1808 presidential election. A faction within the party wanted to deny the vote to aliens and the non-tax-paying poor. The liberal faction within the party gave way on this, but also took the vote from women, who tended to vote for the Federalist Party. In this way, New Jersey's 30-year experiment with female suffrage ended-not mainly because of opposition to the idea of women voting, but for reasons of party politics. A renewed focus on the importance of women in the home (as opposed to the public realm) may also have been a factor in the change. Some historians have viewed the New Jersey episode as evidence that the founders entertained the possibility that women could have political rights. The emphasis on liberty and natural rights in the Revolutionary period brought previously excluded groups into the political process. For example, women took the lead in organizing boycotts of British goods in the disputes over colonial rights that led up to the Revolution. The writers of New Jersey's 1776 constitution took the natural rights sentiment further than other states were willing to go. Pretty clearly then, the idea of some women voting was considered one possibility among others in the Revolutionary era. By 1807, Revolutionary fervor was a distant memory, and New Jersey fell into line with the practice of the other states. What changes in American society led to a renewed push for women's voting rights around 1900? To learn more: Judith Apter Klinghoffer and Lois Elkis, " 'The Petticoat Electors': Women's Suffrage in New Jersey, 1776-1807," Journal of the Early Republic 12/2 (Summer 1992):159-93.Damn that got my attention!I am still in the middle of the Lewis and Clark Trilogy with their maps and the original diary which is real slow but fascinating - I don't think they are even near Ohio yet!Adam
Robert Campbell Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Donna,Ah yes... It's hard to be a jazz fan and not like Miles, or Monk.Have you heard anything by Elmo Hope, Herbie Nichols, or (early) Sun Ra? They were all in Monk's neighborhood, musically.I've heard Wynton's classical playing and liked it. Really nice Haydn Trumpet Concerto. In general I like Wynton as long as he's playing his instrument (or conducting)—and not running down other musicians.Robert Campbell
mcmanusd Posted August 19, 2009 Author Posted August 19, 2009 Why Adam, I do believe I got caught red-handed. I heard that anecdote quoted before, I believe it was quoted in Dead Man Walking. I believe (but do not have a reference) that he was an atheist, but his estranged wife was a devout Catholic. It seems he didn't want a religious burial and preferred to be cremated. His estranged wife insisted on her way, had a Catholic funeral for him, his mistress had some spiritual reading for his memorial, and he wanted to use his estate to establish a college that had no religious training but the money ended up going to his wife.I did not know women could vote anywhere in 1818. That is interesting. What history interests you?The Ohio history is a fun little effort on my part. I had been reading "Lost Ohio" (author name eludes me right now) and similar books on the varying geographic and cultural regions in the state that discuss the hamlets and townships that have disappeared over time. I've been interested in taking some roadtrips to find some of this arcane history such as the old Ohio Penitentiary in Mansfield (where they shot most of the Shawshank Redemption), the battle of 1812 and Commodore Perry (sites along Lake Erie and Fort Meigs), and contrasts some of the differences in history as well with the Appalachian areas of the state. I've been mulling over an idea just for the sheer fun of it to photograph and possible write about some of this. The diverse history, geography, and culture of this region intrigues me. Can't say I've been at a freedom or liberty meeting. Did I mention something about that?Donna:My bad. It was Marsha who just joined and started with the Split thread. Any American history. Specifically the Civil War and the Revolutionary War - you know guy thing - war blood strategy B) http://www.nps.gov/revwar/about_the_revolution/voting_rights.html Did you know that New Jersey women voted in the 1790s? by Bob Blythe Everyone knows that American women first got the vote in 1920 with the passage of the 19th Amendment. Right? Wrong! Some New Jersey women voted as early as 1776. Historians argue about just what Thomas Jefferson and his colleagues meant when they declared "that all men are created equal." Did the founders mean males only or were there some situations when "men" could mean all humans? What natural or political rights, in their view, did women possess? The unique case of women voters in New Jersey offers some clues. The framers of New Jersey's first constitution in 1776 gave the vote to "all inhabitants of this colony, of full age, who are worth fifty pounds ... and have resided within the county ... for twelve months." The other twelve new states restricted voting to men. Although some have argued that this gender-neutral language was a mistake, most historians agree that the clear intention was to allow some women to vote. Because married women had no property in their own names and were assumed to be represented by their husbands' votes, only single women voted in New Jersey. But, in the 1790s and 1800s, large numbers of unmarried New Jersey women regularly participated in elections and spoke out on political issues. In 1807, the state's legislature ignored the constitution and restricted suffrage to white male citizens who paid taxes. This was largely a result of the Democratic-Republican Party's attempt to unify its factions for the 1808 presidential election. A faction within the party wanted to deny the vote to aliens and the non-tax-paying poor. The liberal faction within the party gave way on this, but also took the vote from women, who tended to vote for the Federalist Party. In this way, New Jersey's 30-year experiment with female suffrage ended-not mainly because of opposition to the idea of women voting, but for reasons of party politics. A renewed focus on the importance of women in the home (as opposed to the public realm) may also have been a factor in the change. Some historians have viewed the New Jersey episode as evidence that the founders entertained the possibility that women could have political rights. The emphasis on liberty and natural rights in the Revolutionary period brought previously excluded groups into the political process. For example, women took the lead in organizing boycotts of British goods in the disputes over colonial rights that led up to the Revolution. The writers of New Jersey's 1776 constitution took the natural rights sentiment further than other states were willing to go. Pretty clearly then, the idea of some women voting was considered one possibility among others in the Revolutionary era. By 1807, Revolutionary fervor was a distant memory, and New Jersey fell into line with the practice of the other states. What changes in American society led to a renewed push for women's voting rights around 1900? To learn more: Judith Apter Klinghoffer and Lois Elkis, " 'The Petticoat Electors': Women's Suffrage in New Jersey, 1776-1807," Journal of the Early Republic 12/2 (Summer 1992):159-93.Damn that got my attention!I am still in the middle of the Lewis and Clark Trilogy with their maps and the original diary which is real slow but fascinating - I don't think they are even near Ohio yet!AdamAdam, Lewis and Clark took over 2 months just to go down the Ohio River in 1803, same time Ohio gained statehood and was being settled. At that time, anyone settling or exploring Ohio was going to be in the southern portion of the state because of the "black swamp" of the northern half. Fascinating stuff how this region was settled and you still do see a divide between the northern and southern halves of the state...southern is heavily Appalachian and northern half (Toledo and Cleveland areas anyway) are what I would call "little Detroit" because of heavy industrialization and the huge waves of eastern European, Italian, and Irish immigrants that came through during the Ellis Island years. Because the Ohio territory was opened to settlement about 1783, a number of Revolutionary veterans began to settle here through the Appalachian mountains. Because of the terrain and heavily forested regions and because of the many differing native Indian tribes here that settlers could trade with, a number of explorers came through here: Simon Kenton (one extremely fascinating man), Daniel Boone and George Rogers Clark. History is fascinating here because the Northwest Territory history and it was the "door" if you will to westward migration. Maybe some day if I ever become motivated, I'll have to read the Lewis and Clark Trilogy. I'll have to bone up on the history of women's voting rights. I never knew this. Certainly got my attention, particularly with the mention of "natural rights"--considering "natural rights" weren't so natural to women and slaves at the time. War stuff and blood and guts? Not a problem with me. Seems to me we needed blood and guts more than a few times in our history.
mcmanusd Posted August 20, 2009 Author Posted August 20, 2009 Robert,Yes. I have heard the Haydn Trumpet Concerto a number of times. Pretty good music to listen to on a Sunday morning with a cup of coffee, actually. (Purchased a CD of some of his classical recordings long time ago for one of my daughters -- she played trumpet.) I have heard some Elmo Hope and Herbie Nichols for same reason--kid music lesson when they were growing up (kids were actually given specific music to listen to, had a fairly decent music program in their schools). Never really listened to much Sun Ra, could be another avenue to explore for me. Miles Davis and Sketches of Spain and recordings he did with Coltrane just have always been pure enjoyment to me. It just sounds as if he's having a hell of a good time with that horn and discovering what he can say and do with it. I also really love old Ella Fitzgerald stuff but don't have any.Wynton does seem to be sort of a showboat, meaning he does like to make it be known he thinks he's "da man" but eh...he's talented. I seem to remember some pretty heavy criticism aimed at him coming from Ken Burn's PBS series Jazz because of how he portrayed jazz as primarily from New Orleans and as a rather elitist art form, more or less neglected or glossed over the blues and a number of other notable artists were totally ignored (Chick Corea and Sun Ra, which really blew my mind). Burn's presentation just wasn't all that great though.
Selene Posted August 20, 2009 Posted August 20, 2009 Robert,Yes. I have heard the Haydn Trumpet Concerto a number of times. Pretty good music to listen to on a Sunday morning with a cup of coffee, actually. (Purchased a CD of some of his classical recordings long time ago for one of my daughters -- she played trumpet.) I have heard some Elmo Hope and Herbie Nichols for same reason--kid music lesson when they were growing up (kids were actually given specific music to listen to, had a fairly decent music program in their schools). Never really listened to much Sun Ra, could be another avenue to explore for me. Miles Davis and Sketches of Spain and recordings he did with Coltrane just have always been pure enjoyment to me. It just sounds as if he's having a hell of a good time with that horn and discovering what he can say and do with it. I also really love old Ella Fitzgerald stuff but don't have any.Wynton does seem to be sort of a showboat, meaning he does like to make it be known he thinks he's "da man" but eh...he's talented. I seem to remember some pretty heavy criticism aimed at him coming from Ken Burn's PBS series Jazz because of how he portrayed jazz as primarily from New Orleans and as a rather elitist art form, more or less neglected or glossed over the blues and a number of other notable artists were totally ignored (Chick Corea and Sun Ra, which really blew my mind). Burn's presentation just wasn't all that great though.This is one of OL's members efforts - Ted has done a lot of great work and has tons of jazz artists videos.http://radicalsforha...s.blogspot.com/Any Gene Krupa fans out there? Don't let the beginning fool you it is from Ball of Fire and Krupa does Drum Boogie at the end with a unique set of sticks!Adam
mcmanusd Posted August 20, 2009 Author Posted August 20, 2009 AdamWhat a great idea, Radicals for Happiness. I'll have to read it as I have time--but I think I'm going to have to shut off the computer right now. Happiness is not a power outage due to late summer storms Another piece of odd amusement for me though: watching lightning, and we're having a hell of a show tonight.As for Ball of Fire, I remember watching that a long time ago...maybe 25 or so years ago on late night television, I haven't seen it since. I'm surprised that no fingers were burnt in the process of filming that scene.
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