Hello everyone

[bradbradallen]

Hello everyone. My name is Brad and I'm 17 (Class of '10). I live in Michigan, 45 minutes out of Detroit. Was recommended to the site by a friend of mine and am looking forward to opening my mind to the intellect of Ayn Rand.

[Selene]

Welcome Brad:

Residing in the marxist state of Michigan must provide you with plenty of practice defending freedom and capitalism.

This is an excellent place to exchange, argue and discuss ideas.

Are you a student or an entrepreneur or ?

Adam

[Rich Engle]

Welcome to this place, and may your soul be saved.

Yeah, right.

Enjoy. Write good stuff.

Rich E.

[galtgulch]

Hello everyone. My name is Brad and I'm 17 (Class of '10). I live in Michigan, 45 minutes out of Detroit. Was recommended to the site by a friend of mine and am looking forward to opening my mind to the intellect of Ayn Rand.

Brad,

Welcome aboard!

The best source of Ayn Rand's intellect is to be found in her novels and essays and journal and interviews.

I have always wondered how I would have reacted had i read Atlas Shrugged before I was told just what her philosophy was. If I were you I would hasten to read Atlas Shrugged to see for yourself.

Other than that i wonder if you have encountered any signs in your school of the Young Americans For Liberty or the Campaign For Liberty? www.YALiberty.com www.campaignforliberty.com membership 132,358; 1Apr 132614, 9PM 132675 and growing!

Started by Ron Paul Republicans not Objectivists but pro free market, limited govt, individual rights, sound money, non interventionist foreign policy with a few contradictions and inconsistencies e.g. pro life not pro choice.

I wonder if you know anything about Ayn Rand's views, philosophy and whether you might have some obstacles to overcome. If it is important to you that things make sense you have come to the right place!

gulch

Edited April 2, 2009 by galtgulch

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Bradley,

Welcome to OL.

I found your statement interesting. You look forward to opening your mind to the ideas of Ayn Rand (although you did say intellect).

Opening your mind...?

Is it closed?

Have some fun around here. There's lots to read and great people to discuss things with.

Michael

[Chris Grieb]

Brad; Welcome! I wouldn't make any comments about your home state since I reside in DC. Enjoy the forum.

[syrakusos]

Hello everyone. My name is Brad and I'm 17 (Class of '10). I live in Michigan, 45 minutes out of Detroit. Was recommended to the site by a friend of mine and am looking forward to opening my mind to the intellect of Ayn Rand.

These boards can be intimidating. This is one of a few and while we here can argue as which are better at what, they all have a lot in common -- as do automobile manufacturers, chemical companies, Big Ten universities, major league sports, ... or resort towns in the Upper Lower Peninsula, for that matter.

I encourage you to post your observations, insights, questions and comments here and to keep at it. You will find yourself treated like an equal -- which means bare knuckles. You can be wrong -- we all are -- but you have to stay with the process of reading and writing if you want to profit from the exchange.

I can assure you from experience that reading Rand will put you ahead of the curve when you get to college. It is not just having the right ideas -- though there is that -- it is having any ideas. Few people do. It is not just knowing that collectivism is evil and that egoism is good, but knowing how to determine right from wrong and how to identify contradictions in other people's work that will carry you through college. You do not need to convince your professors -- usually impossible -- but demonstrating that you can understand and manipulate concepts as abstractions. I assure you that you will find that many people can "voice opinions" that are little more than emotional outbursts, expressed as unrelated concretes. Writing here is like playing minor league ball before being called up to the majors.

What classes do you do best at?

How do you see yourself earning a living?

Have you thought about college? And what have you thought?

Which of Rand's books have you read so far?

What did you think of them? What were the high points and low?

Can you compare her to other philosophers? To other novelists?

Edited April 1, 2009 by Michael E. Marotta

[bradbradallen]

RE: Adam

I am currently a Student, Junior in Highschool.

RE: MIchael (Kelly)

My mind has been opened lately to the economic / philosophic ideals of Ayn Rand. Prior to a few weeks ago, I was very set on trying to accommodate my desires for the country with either Democratic or Republican parties, as well as my philosophic ideas to the current, "cookie cutter" ideas. After several discussions, though, as well as some traversing of this website, I am becoming more open to ideas that are not fully democratic or republican, as well as philosophies that are not the most prevalent in today's society. While my mind is not closed, I am eager to dive deeper into the teachings of Ayn Rand and further open it.

RE: Michael (Marotta)

What classes do you do best at?

How do you see yourself earning a living?

Have you thought about college? And what have you thought?

Which of Rand's books have you read so far?

What did you think of them? What were the high points and low?

Can you compare her to other philosophers? To other novelists?

I do best at English, and within the field of written language is where I plan on pursuing a career. Journalism is what I am currently planning on both earning a living with as well as majoring in, with a minor in Philosophy. I am also an aspiring writer, which I what I enjoy doing in my free time, and am trying to accomplish a full-fledged novel over this coming summer. I was thinking of attending a school in California, and the only specific one I've found with courses that interest me is Chapman University in Orange, Cali.

I have yet to read any of Rands books, but when I read some, I'll be sure to post what I think of them

And to all others who welcomed me to the forums, I am much appreciative

[sbeaulieu]

Welcome, Brad!

English does seem to be a strong suit for you. For being 17, you have a strong grasp of grammar. I hope my son will be that good in a few years ;)

This site is awesome. As Michael Morrota put it, bare knuckles! But the aftermath is always respect and a sound lesson that all things learned usually come from the road less traveled (although here, it is the opposite). Many people defer to one another to avoid confrontation or conflict. Not here. We are far from shy to point out our stances on many subjects.

Enjoy your learning experience. Ayn Rand is a great individual. I still have not read her books, so I never cite examples from her novels. I'm more of a side-liner and soaking everything in.

Other great authors are Terry Goodkind (Sword of Truth series) and Nicholas Dykes (Old Nick's Guide to Happiness). They offer more contemporary slants on how Objectivism is applied to modern issues.

Again, welcome aboard!

~ Shane

[Selene]

Shane: Now that is a revelation, to me. The statement that you had never read any of Ayn's books, frankly, stuns me. Out of curiosity, what attracted you to this forum?

Brad: I recently ran a chess club with three other guys in Virginia and we had 15-20 young folks ranging in age from 5 to 18. Many of the older kids who had read Ayn almost all started with Anthem.

As a writer, you will probably appreciate the difficulty of the switched pronouns that she from page one. All it did was frustrate the hell out of me, but then again the first exposure I had to her ideas was the movie the Fountainhead and then Atlas.

Adam

Edited April 1, 2009 by Selene

[sbeaulieu]

Shane: Now that is a revelation, to me. The statement that you had never read any of Ayn's books, frankly, stuns me. Out of curiosity, what attracted you to this forum?

Well, I hope the revelation isn't one that leaves a bad impression. But, I'm working my way up to getting her books...promise ;)

In another thread, I had mentioned that I know Terry Goodkind by correspondence over years of reading his books. I had a life-changing conversation with him back in 2005 on the phone. Prior to this conversation, I didn't know the existence of Ayn Rand's philosophy. Being one that's interested in what sets people on their paths in life, I asked him a simple question: "What sort of books do, or did you read that inspired you to write?" His answer was Ayn Rand, and Fountainhead being his favorite of her works (there's a lot of similarity between Howard Roark (read a chapter or two) and Richard Rahl in his sixth book, Faith of the Fallen).

After my conversation, I started digging into everything Ayn Rand and Objectivism. I didn't just jump on the bandwagon. For many years reading Terry's books, I reflected on everything...agreed with most, didn't understand some, and disagreed with others. I just never knew it was from an Objectivist standpoint through Richard's thoughts and actions. I've been an Objectivist all along, just never knew it

As for why I've never read Ayn Rand. I wanted to understand the foundation of Objectivism (to a comfortable level) before reading her books. In this way, I could actually grasp her messages. Analogy: It'd be like me jumping straight into physics and reading Einstein. I wouldn't get it. Better to do some homework first before even attempting such a feat.

Fortunately for me, I ran into this forum looking into O'ism. No regrets, I assure you.

Sorry for the long explanation.

~ Shane

[Selene]

Shane:

What long explanation, seemed short and to the point to me. Gave me a clear explanation. As I have mentioned before on this forum, I read Atlas at 13/14 around 1960. I was, and always have been, heavily involved in politics. Therefore, I was deeply involved in the Nixon for President campaign which allowed me to be knowledgeable enough to understand how profound her book was.

A few years later, I was standing in a room in the basement of the Empire State Building watching Barbara and Nathanial and Ayn basically providing me with all the substantive information and arguments that I have employed ever since.

The most profound concept that still effects me is the "sanction of the victim" and it is still my most effective closer argument with anyone I am enlisting in objectivism. It is a powerful and empowering concept that fully challenges precisely what your value is and how carefully each individual should be before they permit themselves to be victimized by those that need the individual that they are either consciously or subconsciously intending to enslave.

Out of curiosity, are you a student, entrepreneur, productive worker or ?.

Adam

[tjohnson]

Out of curiosity, are you a student, entrepreneur, productive worker or ?.

What's the difference between a worker and a productive worker?

[Selene]

GS:

Basically, I hire the productive worker. I have a beer, on the victim taxpayers dime, at the local government office with the workers.

Adam

Edited April 2, 2009 by Selene

[bradbradallen]

Went to my local library today and pick up both "The New Left: The Anti-Industrial Revolution" and "For the New Intellectual - The Philosophy of Ayn Rand" (Was hoping to get hold of some of her fiction, but was forced to put one on hold. Didn't realize her books were in such high demand.)

Hoping they peak my interest. I'm thinking of starting with "For the New Intellectual - The Philosophy of Ayn Rand", but have yet to open either one. Any suggestions on which one to begin with?

[sbeaulieu]

I'm enlisted in the Air Force, 16 years and change. Productive...definitely these days.

~ Shane

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Shane and Brad,

You can read Anthem for free here on the forum. Go here:

Anthem

Scroll down to Part 1 and dig in.

This is a great first book to read of Ayn Rand since it is short (too short in my opinion) and highly dramatic.

Michael

[Alfonso Jones]

Hello everyone. My name is Brad and I'm 17 (Class of '10). I live in Michigan, 45 minutes out of Detroit. Was recommended to the site by a friend of mine and am looking forward to opening my mind to the intellect of Ayn Rand.

Brad -

Welcome to OL!

I urge you to browse around. I do urge you to find a copy of The Fountainhead and read it. Read it before For The New Intellectual, and before The New Left.

That's the priority . . .

Now, as for whether to read Rand first, or those commenting on Rand: Go to the original first - - - not the commentary. I often find that after I read, say, Peikoff "explaining Rand" I can clarify the confusion or lack of clarity . . . . by reading Rand.

Regards,

Bill P

(edited for clarity)

Edited April 2, 2009 by Bill P

[Selene]

Brad:

Thank you for your service. Anyone from Curtis LeMay's branch is ok with me. I think Ba'al has an 8' by 10' poster of him in the computer room.

"Stone Age quote

In his 1965 autobiography, co-written with MacKinlay Kantor, LeMay is quoted as saying his response to North Vietnam would be to demand that 'they’ve got to draw in their horns and stop their aggression, or we’re going to bomb them back into the Stone Age. And we would shove them back into the Stone Age with Air power or Naval power—not with ground forces.'

During the 1968 campaign, LeMay became widely associated with the 'Stone Age' comment, especially because he had suggested use of nuclear weapons as a strategy to quickly resolve a deeply protracted conventional war which eventually claimed over 50,000 American lives, plus millions of Vietnamese, mostly non-combatants, and which war the U.S. had committed itself under the SEATO Treaty, and the corresponding International Law governing treaty obligations. This reputation did nothing to tamper down perceptions of extremism regarding the Wallace-LeMay ticket. General LeMay disclaimed the comment, saying in a later interview that 'I never said we should bomb them back to the Stone Age. I said we had the capability to do it.'"

He was correct about how to proceed militarily in Vietnam and had we either disengaged or fully committed, we, in my opinion would have saved most of those men who died honorably prosecuting a flawed political decision.

Furthermore, as was not understood by most "liberals" was that we did have a treaty obligation. What was it again that tall white guy warned us about?

Beware foreign entanglements! Ahh what did he know, just another one of those blue eyed white guys that cause all of the globes problems, well is that not what the President of Brazil declared?

Maybe that is why there are so few black objectivists!

Adam