Lysander Spooner wrote No Treason: Constitution of No Authority

[Selene]

Adam, could you be a little specific: what programs?

--Brant

Sorry about the delay Brant, essentially, failure to register is a felony and if convicted 5 yrs in jail and $250,000.00 fine.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/dl-15.pdf

"Selective Service Registration

Male students who fail to register with Selective Service before turning age 26 are ineligible for Federal student loan and grant programs, including Pell Grants, Federal Work Study, and Stafford Loans. (Parents who want to borrow a PLUS loan do not have to satisfy the registration requirement.) Several states have also made Selective Service registration a prerequisite for state financial aid and for matriculation at public colleges and universities.

Even if you disagree with the requirement, you should register. Failure to register can have a serious negative impact on your ability to obtain a driver's license, qualify for financial aid, pursue an education, or obtain employment."

[Brant Gaede]

Adam, could you be a little specific: what programs?

--Brant

Sorry about the delay Brant, essentially, failure to register is a felony and if convicted 5 yrs in jail and $250,000.00 fine.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/dl-15.pdf

"Selective Service Registration

Male students who fail to register with Selective Service before turning age 26 are ineligible for Federal student loan and grant programs, including Pell Grants, Federal Work Study, and Stafford Loans. (Parents who want to borrow a PLUS loan do not have to satisfy the registration requirement.) Several states have also made Selective Service registration a prerequisite for state financial aid and for matriculation at public colleges and universities.

Even if you disagree with the requirement, you should register. Failure to register can have a serious negative impact on your ability to obtain a driver's license, qualify for financial aid, pursue an education, or obtain employment."

In 1962 I could not go to college without producing my draft card. It was hard to drop out a year to get your head straight, earn some money for more college, for you might get drafted. Also, employers grinded you on your pay if you might be taken away by the military. All the anti-war demonstrations and agitations were basically centered on college-age youth. If they had dropped the draft that movement would have immediately collapsed. However, so would the supply of manpower for the Vietnam War and other military services which recruited people who didn't want to be drafted, but at the cost of an extra year of service. The draft also kept the ranks of the National Guard and Reserves flush with personnel, including our dear President Bush. A lot of people went to college, became teachers, went to graduate school or got professional educations who otherwise wouldn't. Etc. As a private E-1 (I enlisted) I earned about $80-$88 a month. That's probably about $500 today.

Adam, when you quote multiple paragraphs each new paragraph properly begins with quotation marks or you tend to create the impression you are no longer quoting.

"______________

______________

"_____________

______________

______________"

--Brant

[Selene]

Thanks. Of course you are right about the quote placement - quick laziness is my excuse lol.

That is how myself and my two friends would up teaching speech at 20 years old in 1966!

Adam

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

That's essentially the problem: the "common meaning." Common meanings can be psychologically enslaving, just like the manipulation of language in "1984." I am not accusing you of manipulating language, but in this case I think you are using manipulated language not being aware of it and getting angry when it is pointed out. As for Billy, he is crude and rude and I think you are keying off of that.

Brant,

It's not the problem at all and, believe me, my issue is with cognitive precision at this stage. Nothing more. If anyone is manipulating the language, it is those who manipulate it, not me. I agree that "we the people" in the mouths of some people does not really include all the people. But what has that got to do with anything I have written? It has nothing to do with what I have written. It is wrong to attribute that to me.

I said—very clearly in fact—that governments are framed by those who frame them. They are put in place and maintained by force. Our own government includes oaths of allegiance as part of the show. And the Constitution is not a contract. Government charters are of a vastly different nature than contracts.

(I didn't say it before, but I will say now that I really dislike the term "social contract" because I think it is highly misleading. Another beef I have is the idea that we are endowed with inalienable rights as a gift from a Supreme Being, which is the premise of Locke and the Declaration of Independence from what I read, but that is another issue.)

I also said that I will take government over not dealing at all with bullies. And I do. Call it the lesser of two evils.

Semantically, when I said "we have to deal with bullies," I was not saying "we the people have instituted government." Others may say that, but I don't. During this last election, there was one phrase harped on frequently by all candidates that irritated me like the sound of nails scratching across a blackboard: "the American people are tired of..." or "the American people want..." and always "the Amnerican people" yada yada yada as if these political candidates spoke in the name of "the American people." They had no mandate for that. Nobody ever does. Speaking in the name of "the American government" or a political party is different. Anyway, how did these yo-yos know what "the American people" thought when they did not present any kind of evidence that "the American people" thought as one?

I also said that I greatly admire the achievement of the Founding Fathers for devising a system of government based on checks and balances and individual rights, as compared to what was available before that. (I expounded on some aspects and causal relationships of that system.) The birth of the USA Constitution was on the level of a miracle when you think about how tenaciously and brutally those in power cling to it.

How is that "common meaning" for something like "we" or "enlisting" anyone or anything?

That was a total misread by Billy, and apparently by you.

Disagree with me if need by. But disagree with me, with what I write, not with some prejudice or jargon using me as a front for it.

The only path to understanding is cognitive precision. That is the only path I am on. I want no other.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

There is nothing you can say that is not a formulation, as soon as you utter a word you are formulating.

GS,

Dictionaries exist. Words often have two or more definitions. And their meanings are further extended by the context in which they are used.

In the context that was being discussed, "formulation" meant something like "proposal for government" and an attempt to justify it according to universal principles.

That meaning of "formulation" has nothing to do with what you are talking about.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

Thanks. Of course you are right about the quote placement - quick laziness is my excuse lol.

That is how myself and my two friends would up teaching speech at 20 years old in 1966!

Adam

Yes! I am 2 yrs older! Bow down to MY authority!--i.e., go get the coffee. :shifty:

--Brant

[tjohnson]

I realize that Micheal, I am just trying to point out a general semantic principle. Technically, everything you or I say is a formulation.

formulate - give voice: put into words or an expression;