We The People Foundation challenge Obama to fess up!

[galtgulch]

Full-Page Citizenship Challenge To Run Twice

Mr. Obama: Don’t Miss Next Week’s Chicago Tribune

By Online Sunday, November 30, 2008

-We The People Foundation

D.C. National Press Club Event: Dec 8th

Our full-page Open Letter to Mr. Obama will be published in the Chicago Tribune on both Monday, December 1, 2008 and Wednesday, December 3, 2008. It will appear in the main news section. Click here to view a copy of the final ad.

Chicago is Mr. Obama’s hometown. His transition team is operating out of the Kluczynski Federal Building in downtown Chicago. He is known to be a regular reader of the Tribune, Chicago’s principal newspaper, with a daily circulation of over a half-million readers.

The Open Letter to Mr. Obama is a formal Petition for a Redress (Remedy) for the alleged violation of the “natural born citizen” clause of the Constitution of the United States of America.

Mr. Obama is respectfully requested to direct the Hawaiian officials to provide access to his original birth certificate on December 5-7 by our team of forensic scientists, and to provide additional documentary evidence establishing his citizenship status prior to our Washington, D.C. press conference on December 8.

A First Amendment Petition to any official of the Government for Redress of a violation of the Constitution is substantially different from the garden-variety political petitions frequently received by government officials. This Petition demands it be given the highest priority for an expedited review and official Response by Mr. Obama.

As a formal “Notice of a Constitutional Violation,” the Petition naturally includes the People’s inherent Right to an official Response. As a time-sensitive, election related Petition involving the Office of the President, failure to Respond as requested would constitute an egregious breach of the public trust and confirm the certainty of a Constitutional crisis.

For the D.C. press conference the WTP Foundation has reserved the Edward R. Murrow Room at the National Press Club from 1-4 pm on Monday, December 8, 2008. We are hopeful that C-SPAN may cover what could be a pivotal, historic event.

The Petition for Redress/Open Letter to Mr. Obama is also expected to have a significant impact on the deliberations of the Electoral College as it proceeds toward selection of the U.S. President as provided for by the Constitution.

[Chris Grieb]

Galt; Give it a rest. Obama was born in Hawaii. He's a citizen. He's going to be President. Do something that will do some good.

[syrakusos]

Galt; Give it a rest. Obama was born in Hawaii. He's a citizen. He's going to be President. Do something that will do some good.

Even if he were born in Kenya, it would not make much difference. His mother was at that time a US citizen. That is all it takes. American citizens are born overseas all the time simply because pregnant women travel.

The USA is greatly generous in granting citizenship to anyone born here. Other nations are not so open. Most nations -- including the USA -- look to the nationality of the parents. That is not the only standard. The converse happens as well -- foreign nationals are born here and never become (or seek to become) American citizens.

If Pres.-E. Obama were truly a foreign national, naturalized to US citizenship, the matter would be entirely different. (Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm is a perfect example.) Such is not the case. If he were born on Mars, he'd still be American because (1) his mother was and (2) based on (1) he wants to be American.

The fact that he was born in Hawaii might be sufficient, but it is not necessary.

[Chris Grieb]

My sister who was born in Japan has told me she could be President. My father was in the Air Force at the time. My mother was a citizen of the US.

I don't if Congress or the courts clarified this situation. Shortly after Barry Goldwater was nominated in 1964 Melvin Belli tried to have Senator Goldwater declared ineligible because Arizona was not a state when Senator Goldwater was born. This suit went nowhere. Even in 1964 this was not a problem.

Galt; I really wish you would call yourself something else since most of your postings suggest a person who is out of touch with reality not someone who reality "fits like a glove".

Edited December 2, 2008 by Chris Grieb

[Mike11]

Well, there is already a campaign to impeach Obama so GG might not be as out of touch as I'd like.

[Chris Grieb]

Is this campaign being led by the Aryan Brotherhood or something similar. You can't impeach someone who isn't in office.

[syrakusos]

Shortly after Barry Goldwater was nominated in 1964 ...

It is interesting to note how few presidents were born on the frontier -- none, actually.

Knowing that Douglas MacArthur was in a fort attacked by Indians as a child, I thought he might have been born in a territory, but no: Little Rock, Arkansas. Abraham Lincoln's vice president, Hannibal Hamlin, was born in 1809, in Maine, which was then not a state, though it was part of Massachusetts. I know that is stretching the point, but there it is: finding anyone from high office born outside of the well-established civilization is unusual.

Speakers of the House Charles Frederick Crisp and David B. Henderson were both foreigners. (1891-1903; England and Scotland). ... really stretching a point...

[Brant Gaede]

Galt; Give it a rest. Obama was born in Hawaii. He's a citizen. He's going to be President. Do something that will do some good.

Even if he were born in Kenya, it would not make much difference. His mother was at that time a US citizen. That is all it takes. American citizens are born overseas all the time simply because pregnant women travel.

The USA is greatly generous in granting citizenship to anyone born here. Other nations are not so open. Most nations -- including the USA -- look to the nationality of the parents. That is not the only standard. The converse happens as well -- foreign nationals are born here and never become (or seek to become) American citizens.

If Pres.-E. Obama were truly a foreign national, naturalized to US citizenship, the matter would be entirely different. (Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm is a perfect example.) Such is not the case. If he were born on Mars, he'd still be American because (1) his mother was and (2) based on (1) he wants to be American.

The fact that he was born in Hawaii might be sufficient, but it is not necessary.

It's much more complicated than this. He may be a citizen of Indonesia. It's going to be an interesting ride, these next few years.

--Brant

[galtgulch]

Galt; Give it a rest. Obama was born in Hawaii. He's a citizen. He's going to be President. Do something that will do some good.

Even if he were born in Kenya, it would not make much difference. His mother was at that time a US citizen. That is all it takes. American citizens are born overseas all the time simply because pregnant women travel.

The USA is greatly generous in granting citizenship to anyone born here. Other nations are not so open. Most nations -- including the USA -- look to the nationality of the parents. That is not the only standard. The converse happens as well -- foreign nationals are born here and never become (or seek to become) American citizens.

If Pres.-E. Obama were truly a foreign national, naturalized to US citizenship, the matter would be entirely different. (Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm is a perfect example.) Such is not the case. If he were born on Mars, he'd still be American because (1) his mother was and (2) based on (1) he wants to be American.

The fact that he was born in Hawaii might be sufficient, but it is not necessary.

It's much more complicated than this. He may be a citizen of Indonesia. It's going to be an interesting ride, these next few years.

--Brant

More on the subject. Here is link to the original article referred to: http://tinyurl.com/6zn3ay

<<<"Tuesday, 02 December 2008 20:54

ATB_SHARETHIS

As we have reported earlier in our article "Barack Obama and the Citizenship Scandal," it has been alleged that Barack Obama is ineligible to become president for two reasons: evidence has come forward that Obama was born in Kenya, not the United States as required by the Constitution (because only one of Obama's parents is an American); and even if he was born here, his mother relinquished his citizenship by marrying an Indonesian and becoming a naturalized Indonesian citizen.

This story has gained credence, separating it from Internet rumors, because Obama has reputedly hired three law firms (firms, not lawyers) to make sure that no one gets access to his birth records in Hawaii or his college transcripts from Occidental College and Harvard. (It is speculated that the transcripts will show he applied for aid to foreign students.)

Philip J. Berg, a lifelong Democrat, sued to see Obama's original birth certificate, but a court ruled that because Berg was not in some way harmed by Obama — monetarily, physically, or reputation-wise — he was not a plaintiff in good standing. This action by the court put a temporary end to the belief that we would ever know the answer to the accusations. But now the claim is flaring up again for several reasons:

• Alan Keyes, a presidential candidate of the American Independent Party, and Markham Robinson, a California elector, have now sued to see Obama's birth certificate (these men would definitely have legal "standing" to sue as plaintiffs in this case).

• The We the People Foundation took out a full-page ad in the Chicago Tribune about the scandal.

• On Friday, December 5, the Supreme Court will have a "conference" on the question of Obama's citizenship. (If four out of the nine justices vote to hear the case, oral arguments may be scheduled.)

Obama supporters have derided attempts to challenge Obama's citizenship as merely sour grapes by sore losers, and they point to the website FactCheck.org, as well as a statement by Hawaii's Department of Health Director who said Obama has a legitimate birth certificate, as proof of their rightness. (Various quotes by Obama's supporters also make it clear that they don't care whether or not he was born in the United States, or whether or not the Constitution is upheld.)

Those pressing the issue note that FactCheck.org is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center and that Obama was on the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. They note also that Hawaiian Health Department officials did not state that Obama has an original birth certificate from Hawaii. In fact, what Obama has given to FactCheck.org to prove his citizenship is not a birth certificate, but a certificate of live birth, something that would not ordinarily be accepted as legal proof of citizenship. Also, it is suspicious that no doctors or nurses have come forward and said that they were at Obama's birth in Hawaii, but Obama's grandmother in Kenya has been taped saying that she was at his birth in Kenya.

Is Obama hiding something? Most likely yes. A person just doesn't spend something on the order of hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep one's birth records a secret unless one has something to hide. I personally have had to provide my birth certificate to several employers before they would agree to hire me. For a normal person, showing one's birth certificate is not a big deal. I've also had to give out my college records — again, not a big deal.

But that leads to important questions: should this be pursued, and will it succeed?">>>

Edited December 3, 2008 by galtgulch

[Selene]

Galt:

Simply put, the man won fair and square.

He will be our President on January 20th, 2009.

As President, he will have my support, but not my automatic obedience to his proposed actions and legislation.

These suits will go nowhere.

Standing is always an issue. It is also an issue that most folks can't get their minds around.

Adam

[syrakusos]

In fact, what Obama has given to FactCheck.org to prove his citizenship is not a birth certificate, but a certificate of live birth, something that would not ordinarily be accepted as legal proof of citizenship.

... I personally have had to provide my birth certificate to several employers before they would agree to hire me.

(1) I have a Certificate of Live Birth, not a "birth certificate." I do not know what distinction you intend, but some babies are born dead. Others fail to thrive. Certificate of Live Birth is the proper document. At least, that's what we call them in my part of America. (Baptism certificates are acceptable and traditionally, in the Catholic Church, there is a wait of at least three days after birth for baptism.)

(2) This was the paper I presented -- along with a Social Security Card; an old one that said, "Not for Identification" -- to obtain a US Passport.

(3) What employer required a birth certificate? The I-9 form allows many options and specifies that it is a violation of federal law to demand one or others in preference. Ignorant clerical people will ask me to bring a driver's license and social security card, but I typically present my passport instead.

(4) A certificate of live birth proves nothing, really. Before it became popular and the loopholes were closed, you could request any birth certificate for the filing fee. Dishonest people would scan the death notices for babies and children and then request the certificate of live birth in order to begin a paper chase to build a new identity.

(5) In terms of "identity" it was only his presidential campaign that undid Gary Hart (Gary Warren Hartpence), who not only changed his name, but his handwriting as well.

(6) It is the American thing to do. Many people changed their names at Ellis Island. On the frontier, you never asked a man what his real name was.

I understand the issue. However, the fact is that Pres-E. Barack Obama would have been unseated after one term in the state senate -- and would not have been appointed professor -- if any opponents could have found a purchase in the wall that surrounds him.

Mike M.

Michael E. Marotta

[Chris Grieb]

Selene & Michael; Good posts! It wouldn't shut Galt up because nothing can shut him up.

[galtgulch]

Galt:

Simply put, the man won fair and square.

He will be our President on January 20th, 2009.

As President, he will have my support, but not my automatic obedience to his proposed actions and legislation.

These suits will go nowhere.

Standing is always an issue. It is also an issue that most folks can't get their minds around.

Adam

Adam,

The Constitution didn't matter to FDR nor to Bush Jr. nor to almost all of the Senators nor Congressmen, except for Ron Paul, and evidently it doesn't matter to the crowd at Objectivist Living either.

Obama should have been properly vetted before he became a candidate for his first office in Chicago. The incompetence of those who were responsible now means that America will be under the control of an avowed Marxist. If there is any validity to the charge that he is not eligible it is worth a challenge. Unless you folks have given up without a fight.

Where is Thomas Paine when we need him?

galt

[BaalChatzaf]

Where is Thomas Paine when we need him?

galt

Dead and buried.

Or, to paraphrase Dr. McCoy of StarTrek --- he's mulch, Gulch.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Edited December 4, 2008 by BaalChatzaf

[Chris Grieb]

Galt; When this flap is over will you admit you where wrong. I suspect not because according to you at this time you should be getting ready for Ron Paul's swearing in.

[Chris Grieb]

The LA Times blog reports that US Supreme Court should end this discussion by declining to take the suit involving the alleged problems with Obama's citizenship. It requires four justices to decide to hear the case. I have my doubts they will even get one.

Galt; It's over.

Edited December 8, 2008 by Chris Grieb

[Ed Hudgins]

Court won't review Obama's eligibility to serve

Mon Dec 8, 11:54 am ET (AP)

WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court has turned down an emergency appeal from a New Jersey man who says President-elect Barack Obama is ineligible to be president because he was a British subject at birth.

The court did not comment on its order Monday rejecting the call by Leo Donofrio of East Brunswick, N.J., to intervene in the presidential election. Donofrio says that since Obama had dual nationality at birth — his mother was American and his Kenyan father at the time was a British subject — he cannot possibly be a "natural born citizen," one of the requirements the Constitution lists for eligibility to be president.

Donofrio also contends that two other candidates, Republican John McCain and Socialist Workers candidate Roger Calero, also are not natural-born citizens and thus ineligible to be president.

At least one other appeal over Obama's citizenship remains at the court. Philip J. Berg of Lafayette Hill, Pa., argues that Obama was born in Kenya, not Hawaii as Obama says and the Hawaii secretary of state has confirmed. Berg says Obama also may be a citizen of Indonesia, where he lived as a boy. Federal courts in Pennsylvania have dismissed Berg's lawsuit.

[galtgulch]

The LA Times blog reports that US Supreme Court should end this discussion by declining to take the suit involving the alleged problems with Obama's citizenship. It requires four justices to decide to hear the case. I have my doubts they will even get one.

Galt; It's over.

Chris, I remember when I first lost respect and confidence in the Supreme Court after I read Henry Mark Holzer's article entitled The Constitution and the Draft in The Objectivist about the challenge to the Selective Service Act of 1917 having to do with the military draft. I thought before I read their decision that it was a clear case of "involuntary servitude" and found it to be quite disheartening to read. It gave new meaning to the word sophistry for me and my public school induced naiv ite was forever extinguished.

I had no doubt that the current crop of justices would live up to their record of disdain for the Constitution and think that they should at least be ashamed of themselves for their disregard for their oath to uphold it. In the case of their refusal to deal with the case involving the First Amendment's right to petition for redress of grievances I think they are guilty of treason. I realize that the present justices are not of one mind but it is troubling that none of them appear to demand adherence to the Constitution.

galt

[Chris Grieb]

Your case has not been proved. Posts like the above are why I say you are not in touch with reality.

[galtgulch]

Your case has not been proved. Posts like the above are why I say you are not in touch with reality.

Chris, I agree with you that some of my posts are in the pie in the sky category regarding hopes for the future. I don't mind it when you suggest or assert that i am "not in touch with reality."

But my post about the Supreme Court is not in that category, unless you think, and I agree, that it is unrealistic to expect that the Supreme Court justices will ever be found guilty of treason, even if that were true.

Was that the point you were making? My recollections about the Supreme Court decision regarding the Selective Service Act of 1917 are true.

The Supreme Court has stood idly by while the Congress has violated the Constitution again and again. No declaration of war by the Congress as required by the Constitution in Iraq.

www.GiveMeLiberty.org

I am not aware if any case was ever brought to the attention of the Supreme Court regarding the unauthorized creation of the Federal Reserve System, not the creation of legal tender laws to have paper currency legal tender instead of the gold and silver coins designated as the only legal tender, see Article 1 Sections 8 and 10.

Just what are you counting on to correct the course of this country? I admit I once thought it would be the Objectivist movement which has made progress but has not caught the imagination of the American people naturally.

I do think that those who did become aware of Ron Paul and his ideas about the Fed and the currency, Austrian economics and the Constitution did inspire them. And it still does.

www.campaignforliberty.com

95,237

It appears to be growing faster than the Objectivist movement but I may be mistaken. It may not succeed and maybe someday they will all be arrested and taken out and shot, but in the meantime they are "happening" and those involved in it are doing what needs to be done to increase their numbers, passing the torch, while reading and learning as well.

I do appreciate your responses but fail to see what you hope to accomplish by suggesting I am out of touch with reality. Do you think that Ayn Rand was out of touch with reality too? She was not trying to change the world just to create her characters and novels and essays.

Things are pretty far gone but there is still a degree of freedom for ideas to be spread, for us to assemble and to get published and to speak out. Our right to own guns to defend ourselves was recently upheld by the very same Supreme Court with which I have a problem.

95,238

Every mind counts. Who knows how many are open to hearing the message of freedom, limited government, sound money, non intervention, and restoring the Republic. Reality will show.

95,239

95,240

95,241

95,242

galt

Edited December 9, 2008 by galtgulch

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Ed,

Thank you for the news. That issue will finally go to rest.

It's time to figure out what to do with Obama's upcoming acts while trying to weather a recession that has not really hit home yet. Trying to undo the election is simply a distraction.

Michael

[BaalChatzaf]

GaltGulch, wake up. Wakey, Wakey! The government owns the courts, not the people (who do you think pays the judges?). All your Constitutional nitpicking is for naught. The Federal system our Founders devised has been dead since the passage of the 17-th amendment. And it was mostly dead by 1865. Nothing short of a destructive revolution is going to change this and the cure will most likely be much worse than the disease. Besides, the American public currently loves the welfare state. Wait until we have socialized medicine under the Obama administration. A little treacle will make Obama's plan go down much better than Hillary Care.

Like Dr. McCoy of StarTrek might have said: Its mulch, Gulch.

Our Constitution (as we would like it to be) is gone. It is dead. It is over. Written constitutions are worthless when the government and the courts are corrupt to the core. Concentrate your finite reserves of life energy on things you can alter.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Galt,

I hereby nominate BaalChatzaf for President and caretaker of the American Dream!

Michael

[BaalChatzaf]

Galt,

I hereby nominate BaalChatzaf for President and caretaker of the American Dream!

Michael

You got the wrong guy. I am the Messenger who tells you the American delusion most likely won't happen. It turns out that Socrates is my role model. He went about deflating pretensions and annoying the pompous. However I won't end up like him.

Given a choice between fighting for a futile revolution and helping to fiddle a bad system so that it works well enough to survive in, I will choose the latter. Why? Because I am more likely to succeed. In the end, the pragmatists will win, as long as they are semi-reasonable.

If you really want to make a difference, bring up your children not to accept the bu** sh*t they are taught in school and to roll with the punches. That way they can save their souls and live a semi-sane life in an insane world. The way to go is for the inmates to take over the asylum. The people who own and run the asylum will think that they themselves are in control, but they are not. The last ones standing are the winners.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Bob,

You can run but you can't hide.

What the Nazis did scares the bejeezus out of you (as it should), but I see the Romantic hiding down there inside you, hiding behind the words.

Michael