Hillary is not Constitutionally eligible to be Sect.of State

[galtgulch]

The second clause of Article 1, Section 6, of the Constitution reads, "No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office."

During Clinton's current term in the Senate, the salary for Cabinet officers was increased from $186,600 to $191,300. Since the salary is scheduled to again be raised in January 2009, not only Clinton but all sitting Senate members could be considered constitutionally ineligible to serve in Obama's Cabinet

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

She'll resign the Senate seat before being sworn in. That's obvious.

Obama already resigned his.

Michael

[Chris Grieb]

Michael; Thanks for your bit of sanity.

Galt; Hillary is going to be Secretary of State. A large number of Congressmen have served in the cabinet in the past.

Galt Do something useful. Stop reading right-wingers who think they have some new idea to make things better.

[syrakusos]

The second clause of Article 1, Section 6, of the Constitution reads ...

I saw that as a CNN news video segment yesterday.

From the Wikipedia about William Saxbe --

"There was some minor controversy regarding Saxbe's appointment and the Ineligibility Clause of the Constitution. That provision states that a legislator cannot be appointed to an executive position during the same term that the legislature had voted to increase the salary of said position. Nixon addressed the problem by having Congress reduce the salary of the Attorney General to the level it assumed before Saxbe's term in the Senate had begun, a maneuver that had occurred once before and has since become known as the "Saxbe fix". "

A CNN head posited that no court would recognize the standing of anyone who brought suit to prevent Sen. Clinton's appointment.

Mike M.

[syrakusos]

She'll resign the Senate seat before being sworn in. That's obvious. Obama already resigned his. Michael

Resigning her seat does not fix the problem. It is not that she would be serving as an executive office holder while a senator. It is that as a senator, Hillary Clinton voted to increase the salary ("emolument") of the office to which she is being appointed. The intent of the Constitution is that she must wait out an election cycle. The "Saxbe fix" solves that problem.

[Chris Grieb]

The salary will be reduced. Another solution is Hillary could say she will take no salary. She is multi-millionaire.

[Selene]

Folks and Galt in particular:

Can we just stop the legal nit picking. I find it particularly distasteful from individuals who advocate openness, particularly in government.

Adam

[jordanz]

Can we just stop the legal nit picking. I find it particularly distasteful from individuals who advocate openness, particularly in government.

Why is it nitpicking? The constitution should be followed - everyone in government swears to do so (not that they actually do).

[BaalChatzaf]

Can we just stop the legal nit picking. I find it particularly distasteful from individuals who advocate openness, particularly in government.

Why is it nitpicking? The constitution should be followed - everyone in government swears to do so (not that they actually do).

It is possible for H.C. to serve as Secretary of State within the letter of the law.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Selene]

Robert:

"The constitution should be followed - everyone in government swears to do so (not that they actually do)."

And your point is....?

Adam

[BaalChatzaf]

The second clause of Article 1, Section 6, of the Constitution reads, "No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office."

During Clinton's current term in the Senate, the salary for Cabinet officers was increased from $186,600 to $191,300. Since the salary is scheduled to again be raised in January 2009, not only Clinton but all sitting Senate members could be considered constitutionally ineligible to serve in Obama's Cabinet

Please get used to the facts. The Constitution crafted in Philadelphia in 1787 is dead. It died sometime after the conclusion of the Civil War. The Federal Government crafted by the Founders has been replaced by a National Government. That last two nails in the coffin were the 16-th Amendment giving Congress direct access to our wallets and bank accounts and the 17-th amendment finally shutting the States out of National Governance.

As Dr. McCoy often said to Captain Kirk --- It's dead, Jim!

I am telling you --- It's dead, Gulch!

Nothing short of a second American Revolution will change these sad facts. But hark! If the current government is eliminated we will have to face Organized Crime with no protection at all (however feeble). Are you ready for it?

Ba'al Chatzaf

[galtgulch]

The second clause of Article 1, Section 6, of the Constitution reads, "No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office."

During Clinton's current term in the Senate, the salary for Cabinet officers was increased from $186,600 to $191,300. Since the salary is scheduled to again be raised in January 2009, not only Clinton but all sitting Senate members could be considered constitutionally ineligible to serve in Obama's Cabinet

Please get used to the facts. The Constitution crafted in Philadelphia in 1787 is dead. It died sometime after the conclusion of the Civil War. The Federal Government crafted by the Founders has been replaced by a National Government. That last two nails in the coffin were the 16-th Amendment giving Congress direct access to our wallets and bank accounts and the 17-th amendment finally shutting the States out of National Governance.

As Dr. McCoy often said to Captain Kirk --- It's dead, Jim!

I am telling you --- It's dead, Gulch!

Nothing short of a second American Revolution will change these sad facts. But hark! If the current government is eliminated we will have to face Organized Crime with no protection at all (however feeble). Are you ready for it?

Ba'al Chatzaf

Believe it or not, the Second American Revolution has begun with Ron Paul's candidacy and his establishment of the Campaign For Liberty. www.campaignforliberty.com membership now numbers 94259 and growing daily.

It is conceivable that more will become disillusioned with both major parties as the Fed continues to weaken the dollar, inflation leads to rising prices as unemployment and salary cuts spread. It remains to be seen if numbers ever become significant. The elusive kindling point may yet be reached. If it does the participation of Objectivists and Austrian economists might enable it to succeed in a meaningful way.

Anyone have a better idea?

galt

[kiaer.ts]

Believe it or not, the Second American Revolution has begun with Ron Paul's candidacy and his establishment of the Campaign For Liberty. www.campaignforliberty.com membership now numbers 94259 and growing daily.

Believe it or not, the Second Coming has already begun with the "death" of the most blessed Lubavitcher Rebbe, the MOSCHIACH, Menachem Mendel Schneerson, who did not die, but who was gathered up into the bososm of the lord...3 Tammuz 5754...and who will return, in fourty years...

[BaalChatzaf]

Believe it or not, the Second Coming has already begun with the "death" of the most blessed Lubavitcher Rebbe, the MOSCHIACH, Menachem Mendel Schneerson, who did not die, but who was gathered up into the bososm of the lord...3 Tammuz 5754...and who will return, in fourty years...

Bald es will kommen!

Ist a bubbah miseh, bubbele.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Chris Grieb]

Galt; I am very suspicious of exact figures. I think someone is blowing smoke.

[syrakusos]

... membership now numbers 94259 and growing daily.

... more will become disillusioned ... ... elusive kindling point may yet be reached. ... Anyone have a better idea?

Sure. Sales of all Ayn Rand works exceed 25 million copies, with Atlas Shrugged selling more than 6 million. Miillions of people come to understand that reality exists as an objective absolute, that reason is the faculty which identifies and integrates the material provided by man’s senses, that reason is your only means of perceiving reality and therefore your basic mode of survival, that the pursuit of your own rational self-interest and of your own happiness is the highest moral purpose of your life, which makes laissez-faire capitalism the ideal social system.

Then the world changes completely, totally and forever, and we all live happily ever after.

Good night.

[Brant Gaede]

... membership now numbers 94259 and growing daily.

... more will become disillusioned ... ... elusive kindling point may yet be reached. ... Anyone have a better idea?

Sure. Sales of all Ayn Rand works exceed 25 million copies, with Atlas Shrugged selling more than 6 million. Miillions of people come to understand that reality exists as an objective absolute, that reason is the faculty which identifies and integrates the material provided by man's senses, that reason is your only means of perceiving reality and therefore your basic mode of survival, that the pursuit of your own rational self-interest and of your own happiness is the highest moral purpose of your life, which makes laissez-faire capitalism the ideal social system.

Then the world changes completely, totally and forever, and we all live happily ever after.

Good night.

Where did Rand state reason was used to perceive reality?

"Good night, nurse" is better.

True, the expectations for AS were unrealistic. I now know it will take more than time. It will take more work--creative work that both uses and abuses Rand's vision. And I think the Muslims will keep making life interesting for infidels for centuries to come. Might be a good thing. Keep the infidels from going to seed. Cities will be blown up. The Jews need to spread out more or become more legend than real. Take out NYC and Tel Aviv and how many Jews will be left?

--Brant

[syrakusos]

Where did Rand state reason was used to perceive reality?

The following is a short description of Objectivism given by Ayn Rand in 1962.

by Ayn Rand

At a sales conference at Random House, preceding the publication of Atlas Shrugged, one of the book salesmen asked me whether I could present the essence of my philosophy while standing on one foot.

[...]

2. Reason (the faculty which identifies and integrates the material provided by man’s senses) is man’s only means of perceiving reality, his only source of knowledge, his only guide to action, and his basic means of survival.

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pag...jectivism_intro

I see your point. Her statement that reason identifies and integrates the material (material?) provided by the senses is one claim. The statement that reason is a means of perceiving reality is another. Is "reason" a "sense"? Good question.

If this were a religion, we'd be in a quandry.

[Brant Gaede]

Where did Rand state reason was used to perceive reality?

The following is a short description of Objectivism given by Ayn Rand in 1962.

by Ayn Rand

At a sales conference at Random House, preceding the publication of Atlas Shrugged, one of the book salesmen asked me whether I could present the essence of my philosophy while standing on one foot.

[...]

2. Reason (the faculty which identifies and integrates the material provided by man's senses) is man's only means of perceiving reality, his only source of knowledge, his only guide to action, and his basic means of survival.

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pag...jectivism_intro

I see your point. Her statement that reason identifies and integrates the material (material?) provided by the senses is one claim. The statement that reason is a means of perceiving reality is another. Is "reason" a "sense"? Good question.

If this were a religion, we'd be in a quandry.

Okay. She's not talking about perception here. She needed another word or statement. Sloppy, but it reads good if you are ignorant or don't think about it. I plead guilty. She almost always reads good. Seductive.

--Brant

[Chris Grieb]

Michael M.; Atlas was published in 1957. That would had to been the year of the conference.

[galtgulch]

Galt; I am very suspicious of exact figures. I think someone is blowing smoke.

Chris,

94383 this morning. (Edit: Dec 4 94597 members, Dec 4, 9PM: 94690)There had been a counter on the www.campaignforliberty.com website during the primaries and I watched as the numbers rose from about 6000 when I joined to over 115,000 in a couple of months. Having reached the target of 100,000 the counter disappeared.

I pleaded with them to restore the counter and they did recently. If you go to the site and click on STATES on the menu then on STATES again on the scroll down you will see the latest number of members.

As an Objectivist you should realize that people come in all sizes and shapes but each counts as a one. Hence the totals are "exact" figures of which you are suspicious for some reason. Would you be less suspicious if the numbers were carried out to four decimal places?

I only wonder whether most of these folks are pro freedom but religious fanatics!

I have encountered one such on www.restoretherepublic.com chat room. If this country is filled with such we are out of luck but I don't think so.

galt

Edited December 5, 2008 by galtgulch

[galtgulch]

Galt; I am very suspicious of exact figures. I think someone is blowing smoke.

Chris,

94383 this morning. (Edit: Dec 4 94597 members, Dec 4, 9PM: 94690)There had been a counter on the www.campaignforliberty.com website during the primaries and I watched as the numbers rose from about 6000 when I joined to over 115,000 in a couple of months. Having reached the target of 100,000 the counter disappeared.

I pleaded with them to restore the counter and they did recently. If you go to the site and click on STATES on the menu then on STATES again on the scroll down you will see the latest number of members.

As an Objectivist you should realize that people come in all sizes and shapes but each counts as a one. Hence the totals are "exact" figures of which you are suspicious for some reason. Would you be less suspicious if the numbers were carried out to four decimal places?

galt

Wow! A jump in membership of over one hundred in one day alone. I suspect this was a result of Ron Paul's endorsement of the Young Americans for Liberty program for college campuses. These citizens are the vanguard who will help to spread the word of the existence of this pro freedom movement through the younger generation at a time when there is a need for it.

This may grow much faster than anyone dared to dream that it would. Ron Paul has said that one of his mistakes was to have been too pessimistic during the early stages of his campaign during the primaries. He is now doing what he can to fan the flames of this emerging movement.

In addition to encouraging those who frequent the www.dailypaul.com site to go to www.mises.org, www.cafehayek.com, www.aynrand.org, www.atlassociety.com, www.fff.org, www.fee.org I also encourage them to check out www.objectivistliving.com!

Here is an opportunity for us to participate in a pro freedom movement which thirsts for knowledge and understanding and answers which Objectivism and the Austrian school of economics offers. How large does the membership have to grow before you realize its viability? Join it now when you can do the most good.

Dec 5 7AM 94,804 members and growing!

galt

Edited December 5, 2008 by galtgulch

[Selene]

"Sheets" Byrd, ex KKK mogul agrees with you!

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/arti...px?RsrcID=40241

Adam

[Chris Grieb]

Selene, Galt, Everyone, Hillary is going to be Secretary of State. Obama is going to be President. Everybody take a deep breath. If you go chasing every dark cloud it will be a very long four years.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

It hit the MSM on TV that the Supreme Court will make a decision shortly on whether to consider a suit against Obama's eligibility to be president based on his birth certificate.

Let's see what it does, which as matters now stand, will be not to accept the case. But you never know.

Michael