Ending Income Tax in Mass.

[Chris Grieb]

Glenn Reynolds on Instapundit reports that Carla Howell will present a petition that would end the state income tax in Massachusetts. Ms. Howell, a Libertarian activist, tried this a few years ago and came fairly close. (Over 40% of the vote).

I must say that one of the fun things about the Summer Seminar was buying things in Portland and not having sales tax.

This might make an interesting wrinkle in the election. Massachusetts has become as Democratic as the South used to be. This can happen only if McCain has real courage.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Chris Grieb

[Chris Grieb]

Their web site is www.smallgovermentact.org.

I hope this works.

[BaalChatzaf]

Their web site is www.smallgovermentact.org.

I hope this works.

Which? Small government or the url?

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Chris Grieb]

I hope the web site works.

[Selene]

http://www.smallgovernmentact.org/sgatext.html

This one does

Adam

[Chris Grieb]

Thanks Adam! Googling Carla Howell also works.

[Robert Campbell]

They drew 45% of the vote the first time they tried an initiative to end the Massachusetts income tax. (By contrast, Carla Howell got about 1% of the vote for governor during the same election.)

This time they have a chance at succeeding with the initiative.

Robert Campbell

[galtgulch]

They drew 45% of the vote the first time they tried an initiative to end the Massachusetts income tax. (By contrast, Carla Howell got about 1% of the vote for governor during the same election.)

This time they have a chance at succeeding with the initiative.

Robert Campbell

Something tells me that even if the initiative passes by a substantial margin that the politicians will find a way to ignore it and not abide by the will of the people. After all we live in a representative republic and not a democracy!

Wm

[Selene]

William:

Precisely correct. A Republic. I do not know your age, but until the serious, not psychotic Ron Paul core decides to stop whining and creating "unprovable", pathetically documented fantasies and get down to the real issue of politics which is organizing in every fucking E.D. for two [2] cycles[ four(4) years], you are pissing into the wind.

I have been through this with successful campaigns, Goldwater to Reagan and watched the incredibly banal uses of funds and wanna-bes in the Perot campaign[can we remember that incredibly idiotic Vice Presidential candidate debate with with the "Alzheimer Admiral", I took my last pay and resigned from that abortion.

Adam

[galtgulch]

William:

Precisely correct. A Republic. I do not know your age, but until the serious, not psychotic Ron Paul core decides to stop whining and creating "unprovable", pathetically documented fantasies and get down to the real issue of politics which is organizing in every fucking E.D. for two [2] cycles[ four(4) years], you are pissing into the wind.

I have been through this with successful campaigns, Goldwater to Reagan and watched the incredibly banal uses of funds and wanna-bes in the Perot campaign[can we remember that incredibly idiotic Vice Presidential candidate debate with with the "Alzheimer Admiral", I took my last pay and resigned from that abortion.

Adam

That is the plan. It is clearly up to Ron Paul's supporters and enough of them realize it. They are sprinkled all over. There are about 180,000 precincts in the entire country and over 20,000 precinct leaders signed up so far. Why don't you join us? We would appreciate your wisdom, experience and knowhow.

Wm

[Selene]

William:

I am not a church. My 49 years of political experience and the fact that I am very good at what I do has a value.

I love windmills, but, since we have now been instructed by the Lord High [empty suit[/size -ssh keep it a secret] Messiah Barack "the O'Bama" to learn Spanish. I guess I have to forget that I learned that at 14 in an excellent Public HS in Queens NY. Additionally, my father was tri-lingual [worked as an interpreter in Italian and real Spain Spanish [Castillian (sp?)] and English.

I had to read Don Quixote and several other original Spanish works by my excellent and demanding HS Spanish teacher, Mr. Mc Grory [anvil-face we used to call him], but a fair and demanding teacher because he understood the value of teaching without a political agenda! Wow, what a concept.

So with the bankroll the campaign has, volunteering would be selling my known value for nothing.

Not happening. lol.

Adam

[galtgulch]

William:

I am not a church. My 49 years of political experience and the fact that I am very good at what I do has a value....

So with the bankroll the campaign has, volunteering would be selling my known value for nothing.

Not happening. lol.

Adam

I wonder what role you would have been willing to play in the original revolution and founding? I don't imagine you would have appreciated being paid in Continentals.

For all practical purposes it is growing more evident that this country is no longer a Constitutional Republic in the sense that those in power ignore it when it suits them despite their sworn oath to uphold and defend it against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

I get it now. They are the domestic enemies so of course they should not be expected to surrender and give up their power grab especially when it appears to be working so well for those in power. I know they take over half of the money I earn.

Iwonder as well what you are willing to do from now on, not just in this election period but beyond it. I do hope you are using your ingenuity to pass the torch.

Spreading the word is what it is all about. Our numbers have to grow among the young who will bear the burden of our bloated Federal budget, the seniors and those in the middle class whose savings are being eroded by the inflation of the currency which will not end until enough of us get elected! I expect that the petitions of Bob Schulz will continue to be ignored and misunderstood.

Wm

[Selene]

Excellent:

You got my message. One way the state cannot take half of what I earn, is by not "earning" anything.

And I understand your opening argument. I agree with it, but it is not a "transferable" argument to today.

I choose and have chosen to provide as little money to the state as possible. I have chosen to reduce my "financial imprint".

You are absolutely correct about where the ideas of freedom and individuality need to be "marketed".

Adam

[galtgulch]

Excellent:

You got my message. One way the state cannot take half of what I earn, is by not "earning" anything.

And I understand your opening argument. I agree with it, but it is not a "transferable" argument to today.

I choose and have chosen to provide as little money to the state as possible. I have chosen to reduce my "financial imprint".

You are absolutely correct about where the ideas of freedom and individuality need to be "marketed".

Adam

I am happy that you are not being taxed unduly but you bring a fictional character to mind: John Galt!

In the real world there are not likely to ever be enough of us to cause the state to be hindered by our withholding of our taxes although one can dream. As time goes on and the consequences of state interventions are pointed out to people our numbers will surely grow.

Ron Paul has awakened so many. Altogether over 1.1 million people voted for him in the primaries. The little bit of knowledge they acquired evidently was enough to give them the perspective about government needed to rebel or at least join the movement. It is only a matter of time and effort on their part for their numbers to double and redouble, double then redouble again and you have 16 million!

That just means each reaching another who joins the movement and then continues to reach another who joins the movement a mere FOUR times!

Given what was known at the time the Founders did a decent job in writing the Constitution. If they knew what has happened since and had the knowledge we have access to, namely the ideas of Rand, Mises, Rothbard, Hayek, Bastiat, Armentano, Hazlitt, Blanchard, and so many others, they might have been more explicit and detailed in their granting of power and prohibition of certain powers in the Constitution.

I appreciate your response above but it still leaves me wondering just what you have any interest or motivation to actually do in general to help the cause of liberty or are you just a curious bystander.

As an individualist I value the actions and thoughts of each of us. Many are probably too disheartened by the history of successive power lusters elected to office and for libertarians by the overwhelming electoral defeats by the massive major party machines again and again. I used to think that Objectivism would grow from 20,000 in 1968, a fraction of the subscribership of The Objectivist Newsletter, by word of mouth, doubling and redoubling, doubling and redoubling into the heady millions and tens of millions over the decades. But that hasn't happened although it has grown a bit.

It is like the obverse of the erosion of the Grand Canyon. Each drop of rain may remove a grain of sand. Each conversation by one of us may entice a new young person to read the books and become one more of us. I think it would be easier to increase the numbers who are taxed and regulated, who see the purchasing power of their savings decrease because of the government. It is an easier sell than a philosophy which requires the devotion to reason and that they give up their dreams of a heavenly eternal afterlife.

Anyway who has the time or opportunity when one has to earn a living, commute each way, pay taxes and bills, mow the lawn, vacuum the pool, fill the gas tank, read the paper, shop for food, check one's emails, "hug" the spouse, post on this and other boards, read books and then do it all over again? Someone will say it is not up to us as individuals but up to the professional educators, the colleges and universities. I agree but it is still worthwhile to do more on our own if we so desire to ever turn this country around. Right now it is plummeting and things are getting worse faster than ever.

Wm

Edited July 14, 2008 by galtgulch