Suggestions

[CNA]

As usual, always thinking about something and then looking for something that will relate to the words that have come to my mind and then can build on it from there.

I've been browsing many sites looking for a post that may relate to these words that have come to mind. The words are "The way out is the way in." I have a few ideas already that I'm playing with and how it MAY relate to the meaning of these words. The obvious and most simplistic one to me is of course walking into a situation that is irrational and simply enough you walk out the same way you came in. But for me, there's much more to it. I'm also looking at contradictions, how people contradict themselves, etc., and how this may play into these words, also looking at mind aspects of it, reason, ethics, etc.

A while back the words "experience slips away," came to mind, saw a post that indirectly related to these words and went from there and built on it and then came to a conclusion.

Does anyone have any suggestions or maybe additional words to throw out there regarding "The way out is the way in?" I have many other words to go by that may relate to these words but right now having a hard time sorting it out into groups and then take each word in that group and build on that word. And from there, taking all the words and conclusions in each group and forming one main conclusion, if that made any sense....LOL. Well, it made sense to me. I have a weird way sometimes of going about analyzing and drawing conclusions. I've talked to a few people about this and have had some interesting suggestions.

Any additional ones are greatly appreciated

I'm hoping not to lose this one and not progressing with it and forming it. But I've also in the past have worked on words and ideas and wanting to understand them and draw them into one conclusion (integrate them) that literally took me months to finally figure it out. Right now I'm looking at my present life mostly but also a little of my past, I guess introspection as well as looking on sites and other posts, I guess extrospection to help me build this one.

Just looking for suggestions

Angie

[Kat]

Sorry, Angie, but I'm a bit profundity challenged today. Can you clarify your point a little. I am unfamiliar with the phrases, "the way out is the way in" or "experience slips away." A little more context might help communicate better what you are asking.

Kat

[CNA]

Hi, Kat.

I'm working with very little as well. I pick up words all the time from various places or just when thinking about something and then wanting to build on it and around it to come to a conclusion. These particular words are lyrics from all groups Rush, or the ones I picked up on in Mike's post not too long ago, past, present, future. As you know, Neil from Rush is also heavy into Objectivism and almost every single song he writes is about O'ism. But when talking with someone or reading or listening to music, etc., even if the words are not directly related to O'ism itself, I'll pick the words apart and apply them somehow to O'ism and then a conclusion.

A really quick example of experience slips away -- these words sitting in the back of my head a while ago and then read a post shortly thereafter, it made the experience slips away words easier to build on. But real quickly, not full explanation but a quick example, people have a tendency to use their experiences to predict a future outcome or use their experiences to work against them rather than for them. A good example is I know many women that have used their past experiences with men and how they've been treated to predict "possible" future events with another mate; such as, cheating. Some I know have been cheated on numerous times and they go into the next relationship with suspicion that it just might happen again. This only breeds destruction in the way of suspicion and distrust before the relationship even gets out of the gate. It is working against them and the relationship is strained from the start. I know a few men that also think this way due to their mate cheating. They automatically classify all women to be cheaters and vice versa because of the way they've been treated in the past.

Now looking at my own life and my own past relationships which we've all had a few that were not the ideal circumstances, I've had men that have cheated on me, etc., just not the nicest of guys. I haven't found the right one yet but know where to find him now. But I never once went into my next relationship with baggage so to speak from the past relationship. I do not anticipate an "event" that "might" happen. I'm not suspicious of him not until he gives me a reason while in the present to suspect otherwise. Basically, I wait for the situtation to present itself first while in the present and then deal with it appropriately. Every man is different and so is every woman in terms of what they value. Tom Lykus is a good example of using past experiences to destroy him and his future relationships. He believes all women are to be treated like dirt. But I do not believe in conditioning and that his experiences from his past relationships have made him this way. It was his choice to either have it work for him or against him. He chose to make it work against him.

But also the experience slips away can also be used in terms of introspection and extrospection but also the idea of "enjoying the moment" that is also heavily involved in this philosophy was brought up. But mostly after thinking about those 3 words and the post I read it boiled down to introspection and extrospection. But the thoughts pretty much covered ethics, reason, intro, extro, etc.

But my focus now is on "The way out is the way in." And I'm also working with very little on this. I have a few ideas that I can start working with and to build this. These are words or phrases that probably won't be found in AR philosophy. These are words or phrases that I've picked up from talking with people, reading, etc. And when hearing them or reading them, it will stick in my head. And when this happens, I will as always put more thought into it and will slowly start tearing it down to come to a conclusion usually by looking at my own life in the present and/or delving a little into my past.

What I'm looking for is if anyone has any suggestions about "The way out is the way in" or possibly more words to throw out there. I am very much looking forward to tearing this one apart and I know it will be fun and might be a heavy conclusion for me. I know it's not a lot to work with and not expecting many posts regarding it. I know if I don't get any responses I'm sure I'll find a post someplace that will indirectly relate to these words.

But any suggestions would be appreciated and thank you

Angie

[CNA]

Major clarification, the reference made to not finding the right one yet and knowing where to find him now with the happy face was meant in the way of I know where to find him, meaning O'ist land and hopefully having the same values as mine I'm definitely not looking right now but probably will be looking one day sometime in the "way distant" future.

Just seriously wanted to clarify that.

Angie

[L W HALL]

Angie,

When I first read what you wrote it struck me as being similar to a Zen Koan, but after thinking about it a little, it hit me that unless I have been forced into a particular situation the "way out is the way in" could easily apply to myself as this "way."

This is kind of funny(strange) because it takes me back to another mystical saying by Jesus which says " I am the way, the truth, and the light"( I am paraphrasing, using my memory) which when looked at through the lense of Oism, and substituting man as being the ultimate being would bring us full circle to your saying which I will put a little differently: "I got myself in this situation so it is up to me to get myself out."

Hope that's not too rambling.

L W

[CNA]

Hi, LW. You're funny. No, you weren't rambling at all. This one is interesting for me in the way it does point to one specific thing and I know what it is but it is just building that bridge so to speak to get to it. And what it seems on the surface isn't what it truly means. There is a lot with this one and I'm still working on it as usual. Rush is a group that is heavy into O'ism, at least the song writer is. In each of their songs, the lyrics don't concentrate on one aspect of O'ism. It touches on many different aspects of O'ism and it's just a matter of tearing it apart, taking certain words and building on it to get to the true meaning of it which is interesting for me to pick apart and is fun for me. Each word ties into the first somehow. It's just building on it from there. And it will span the entire philosophy. Neil is a phenomenal writer and a phenomenal drummer. Here are the lyrics to the song but doesn't help me much in tearing apart the Way out is the way in. But it is all tied in somehow.

The experience slips away, even though I wasn't aware of AR's view when picking it apart, considering I haven't read many of the books regarding the philosophy, etc., I'm just over here wingin' it as usual but found out recently what AR meant by experience. And it is very true with this philosophy, experience slips away, as in the example I gave up above. There are many pitfalls to using your experiences as a form of knowledge especially when there are no ideas involved, ethics, etc. It very much can work against you as in the case of Tom Lykus.

But here are the rest of the lyrics to the song. I'm picking it apart, slowly but surely but stuck right now. I am sure eventually something will happen, evidence will present itself eventually, reading a post or something in my own life, etc., that will make it more clear and I will take off running with it happily !! But I'm getting there. It's just each line has to be picked apart and each touches on some aspect of the philosophy. But right now the way out is the way in and this points directly to it and in a sense is the main path, the rest just has to be tied into it.

The way out

Is the way in

The way out

Is the way in...

Out of touch

With the weather and the wind direction

With the sunrise

And the phases of the moon

Out of touch

With life in the land of the loving

With the living night

And the darkness at high noon

You can never break the chain

There is never love without pain

A gentle hand, a secret touch on the heart

Out of sync

With the rhythm of my own reactions

With the things that last

And the things that come apart

Out of sync

With love in the land of the living

A gentle hand, a secret touch on the heart

A healing hand, a secret touch on the heart

There is never love without pain

Life is a power that remains

Any other suggestions are definitely appreciated

Angie

P.S. Thinking more about it now, I know without a doubt what it points to and that realization just re-confirmed my first thought of what it truly touches on.

[Rich Engle]

You might get a mild toehold from looking at it from a story or myth perspective. Yeah, I'm reaching but that appears to be the name of the game with this one, it's rather koan-like.

The way out is the way in. The classic hero's journey myth has some elements that might relate. The heroic journey is not so much about classic "hero" types- its purpose is more to all people. It is about leaving, going through a period of discovery, trial, experience in general, then finding something, and going back. What do you find? Whatever it is that will get you to go back. You are looking for a way out of what is, and that way out leads you to return to yourself. The hero journey myth is at its core about personal evolution.

Hey, I'm just taking a shot, Angie.

[CNA]

You are on the right track. It leads to finding something, the way out is the way in. But you always return no matter what. You can leave it but only temporarily, you always return to yourself and finding it again !! That part I got down. It's just putting all the others together in a more detailed way. But Rich, you are on the right track. But for me, there is still much more to go and having fun with it !!

Angie

[gary williams]

Okay, here goes -

"The way out is the way in."

What popped into my noodle when I read this was the picture of someone standing in the middle of a forest.

How did they get there?

The way in.

But, now perhaps they are lost. They are stuck in the middle of something and do not know which way to turn. They do not know how to get out.

They may panic or perhaps even give up. Either way, they are screwed.

Now, the simple answer for an intellegent person is go out the way you came in.

The way out is the way in.

But, even intellegent people get lost. Why?

Perhaps it is because their perceptions have been fooled. Or they were simply not paying attention.

Example - Walk into a wood. Do not take a known path but instead make your own. Plow ahead. Walk straight ahead. Do this for a good while.

Then stop and turn around.

You will find that what you saw coming into the woods, what you preceived, will now look different. This is especially true if you are in a wood you have never been in before.

Now if you actually did follow this experiment, more than likely you would be paying attention to where you were going, noting tell tale signs and landmarks. And, when you did turn around, more than likely you would be able to find the way out. Most of the time.

But, what about someone who is not paying attention? Like in life, most folks are just plowing ahead. Charging or sometimes strolling, they go into undiscovered country, the unknown, the future, and they can end up in the middle.......

.....lost.

Faith will not lead them out. Believing in Santa Clause or Michael Moore will not lead them out. Blaming George W. Bush or Bill Clinton or Ronald Reagan or Jimmy Carter et al, will not lead them out.

What they need right there, right then, is objective reasoning.

If a person will become objective and welcome the bluntness of reality. If they will look at the situation they are in and say " this is real" and "my mind can solve this". "I will solve this."

Then they have just given themselves the tool, the compass, necessary to find their way out of the situation.

It doesn't guarantee that they will make it. There are a hell of a lot things out there in the proverbial woods, hell bent on preventing someone from walking out on their own. However - Fear, panic, self pity, the heartbreak of faith's foolishness........are no longer in the way and will not stop them.

To me,

Following the path of objective reasoning means I need to do the following -

Chose where you are going.

Pay attention on the way.

Plan ahead.

Pay attention on the way.

Travel with only those worthy of the journey. Only with individuals who are not trying to get you lost. Remember it's your path!

Pay attention on the way.

Know that anyone can be fooled.

So, Pay attention on the way.

Stop and look back every so often. For perspective.

Pay attention on the way.

Think and always......

Pay attention.

Sometimes, I do find myself a little lost.

No worries!

I know that I am living in reality.

I've got my compass.

I know that I have been paying attention, using my noodle and staying focused on what actually is. And usually, the simplest solution will come to me.

And usually, it is as simple as.....

"The way out is the way in!"

And, boy let me tell ya'!

The way out can be a trip!

gw

[CNA]

My cock eyed friend , I like your style and I actually got to see a serious side to you. I like it. Sorry it has taken me so long to respond but have been very busy and plus taking some time off from O'ist sites right now and it's been a nice little respite for me and very much enjoying it !! but still stopping by to see what's been going on.

I've given "the way out is the way in" some thought but haven't devoted much time to it lately. My life has been pretty busy so haven't had much time to play with this idea but sure I will eventually as I am always thinking about something or other or playing with some idea and always ripping it apart.

I liked your post, loved the forest deal. Although have been lost in the forest as well as the desert as well as an abandoned mine and various others before, don't ask please, VERY adventurous as a child and still am to this day. And after a while, everything starts to look the freakin' same and it really sucks the big one.....LOL Although was with many friends in the abandoned mine and was definitely an adventure I won't ever forget, oh, and plus coming out of the mine, not the same way we came in, let us out on the other side, onto fine gravel with 2 friends behind me. We all slipped, very loose gravel, and started sliding down the side of the mountain. But after all of us digging feet and hands into the gravel, we came to a stop about 3 feet short of going over the cliff. The girl in the very back got up first and very carefully and slowly made her way to the side and then the girl behind me did the same and then I finally got up and made it to the side. Walked over to the drop off and grateful we stopped in time because if not we would have plummeted an easy 300 or more feet to the bottom. The crazy and stupid stuff I used to do as a kid....amazing. Still fun having adventures though and always looking forward to a new one but just no more mines, young when that one happened.

But I enjoyed your post, brought back some of my own funky memories....LOL Although hair raising, they were adventures I will never forget and some were quite fun !!

Angie

[gary williams]

Angie,

Glad to be of service.

Of course I just re-read my post and now I am scratching my head going.......Huh?

Being a kid is all about rushing ahead and pushing the envelope and not worrying about anything other than "now." Not very objective, but such great fun. And, if mom and dad are paying for it.....Whoo Hooo!

Damn kids! Turn that music down, will ya!

Oops! Sorry! Must be the geezer coming out in me! Tick Tock, Tick Tock!

Anyway, I just wanted to put my two cents in on your thread. Hope it made sense.

gw