"Finally, a Reasoned Debate"

[Barbara Branden]

From the Washington Post

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/printpage...as_finally.html

August 24, 2007

Finally, a Reasoned Debate

By Charles Krauthammer

WASHINGTON -- After months of surreality, the Iraq debate has quite abruptly acquired a relationship to reality. Following the Democratic victory last November, panicked Republican senators began rifling the thesaurus to find exactly the right phrase to express exactly the right nuance to establish exactly the right distance from the president's Iraq policy, while Murtha Democrats searched for exactly the right legislative ruse to force a retreat from Iraq without appearing to do so.

In the last month, however, as a consensus has emerged about realities on the ground in Iraq, a reasoned debate has begun. A number of fair-minded observers, both critics and supporters of the war, agree that the surge has yielded considerable military progress, while at the national political level the Maliki government remains a disaster.

Continued at:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/printpage...as_finally.html

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Barbara,

That is a marvelous article. I love it that the politicians are running out of options and are being forced to identify reality as it exists, regardless of their stated beliefs/agendas. We have cut-and-run people now saying that the surge is working and hawks saying that Maliki ain't cutting it. As an example of reality knocking but not noticed, we have in Iraq former Saddam Hussein henchmen in the Sunnis now joining the USA in its efforts against Al Qaeda. That doesn't align with anything traditional politicians have been saying on either side. It shows how disconnected from reality they really are.

(Bravo to our military who have encouraged this and thank goodness they are not politicians.)

The article proposes that the reversal of politicians and the now "reasoned debate" is because of the election shakeup and it probably is.

One thing Rand once noticed about the American people in general (I can't remember where right now) was that they are pretty tolerant in a benevolent sort of way and it takes them a long time to become radical on an issue. But once they do, they simply resolve the issue and get rid of the bad guys, regardless of who the bad guys are or what the cost is. (She said this a bit differently, of course, but I remember the essence being this.)

I came across a wonderful lampoon (video) by Jon Stewart that illustrates the start of this process within the context of the Middle East. Although this is humor, that fact that it is so funny to everyone is symptomatic of the fact that the American people are starting to get really annoyed with the lack of reality in politics. I expect more in this vein from others. And I expect more reasoned debate coming.

Jon Stewart - America To The Rescue

btw - I found it hilarious.

EDIT: Here is another that had me splitting my sides:

Bush Administration Acting Retarded

Although this is slanted against Bush, it is so easy to apply it to politicians on both sides that I believe most people see it that way.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

After posting the Jon Stewart videos above, it occurred to me that there might be a partisan agenda to his remarks. I didn't think so. I heard universal messages, albeit the comic's targets leaned in one direction. But to make sure, I listened to several other videos of his on You Tube. Then I came across a wonderful interview he made with Larry King on June 2, 2006 that bears directly on the point I was making:

Some of that interview bears quoting:

King: Who in this administration fascinates you the most?

Stewart: The American people for their just utter patience. And... I... everybody... it just seems like... I just don't know what it's going to take. What else?...

. . .

Stewart: We can't even get the two political parties to agree on what reality is. You know, the Democrats look at Terri Schiavo and they're like, "Eh... she's been dead for, uh... twenty years. Take her water away." The Republicans are like, "Nah... She's a couple of [????] classes away from, you know, joining the Rockettes." Like nobody can agree what reality is. I am so tired of both of these groups...

. . .

King (commenting about things being bad): In a sense, you're happy over this.

Stewart: No.

King: This give you fodder.

Stewart: Yeah... I'd prefer not the fodder. We're not the guys at the craps table betting against the line. We'd make fun of something else. If public life... if government suddenly became inspiring and moved towards people's better nature, and began to solve problems in a rational way rather than just a way that involved political dividends, we would be the happiest people in the world to turn our attention to idiots like, you know, media people. No offense.

King: So you don't want it to be bad.

Stewart: Did you really just ask me if I want it to be bad?

King: Yeah... because you...

Stewart: What do you?... I have kids! What do you think? (ironic growly voice) Yeah... I don't want them to have any kind of a... I want things to corrode to the point where we're all living in huts.

. . .

Stewart: What seems absurd to me is the length that [Washington] just seems out of touch with the desires of Americans to be spoken to as though they are adults. I mean, when you listen to Bush's speeches... and I'm leaving the Democrats out because I honestly feel that they don't make an impact: they have 49% of the vote and 3% of the power. At a certain point you go, "Guys. Pick up your game."

I must say that I like where this guy is coming from. I am gratified to see my original impressions made so explicit. I think his real target is the disconnection with reality that politicians display and he focuses on the ones who wield the most power and who do and say absurd things. But he lampoons them all.

EDIT: Sorry for the detour into comedy, but I see all this tying in directly in terms of principles to the reasoned debate article at the head of this thread.

Michael

[Chris Grieb]

Michael; Thanks for Jon Stewart quotes.

[Judith]

I look for Krauthammer regularly on Fridays at the Washington Post website. He usually has intelligent things to say, and he didn't disappoint this time.

Judith

[Barbara Branden]

Michael,

Jon Stewart's America to the Rescue is no longer on Youtube.

I'll be damned if I see any point at all to his Bush Administratiom Acting Retarded.

As for the Larry Kimg interview, who wouldn't say that "if government suddenly became inspiring and moved towards people's better nature, and began to solve problems in a rational way... we would be the happiest people in the world." Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, John Murtah, Hillary Clinton -- all would piously agree.

To return to Krauthammer: Even when I don't agree with him -- although I usually do, as with this article -- I sometimes think Krauthammer is the only truly sane commentator on the national scene. He has a way of getting calmly to the essence of an issue, often in only a few words, that no one else seems able to do. When all is said and done, what I most admire about him, more than any specific conclusion he reaches, is the way he thinks, his methodology.

Barbara

[Ed Hudgins]

Krauthammer is always a thoughtful commentator. And he's hit the right on things like creationism.

By the way Judith, I've seen him a couple of times at concerts at the Kennedy Center, so we know he has good taste in music.

And I hope to see you, Judith, as well as MSK, Kat and the whole gang in DC on Oct. 6 to celebrate Atlas Shrugged at 50; Barbara Branden will be offering reflections on this great occassion!

[Judith]

By the way Judith, I've seen him a couple of times at concerts at the Kennedy Center, so we know he has good taste in music.

I gotta get down there more often. Too many good people on both sides of the stage.

And I hope to see you, Judith, as well as MSK, Kat and the whole gang in DC on Oct. 6 to celebrate Atlas Shrugged at 50; Barbara Branden will be offering reflections on this great occassion!

I haven't quite made up my mind yet -- there's a conflict with another event I'd like to attend, and I have to decide soon!

Judith

[Ed Hudgins]

So how about you MSK and Kat? How about a romantic, intellectually stimulating and spiritually renewing weekend in Washington, D.C. to celebrate 50 years of Atlas Shrugged? Hope to see you there! -- Ed

-----

Atlas Shrugged 50th Anniversary Hotel Registration Reminder

If you're planning to attend the Atlas Shrugged 50th anniversary celebration on October 6 in Washington, D.C. and to stay at the event venue, the Marriott Renaissance Hotel, please try to book your rooms by Thursday, September 6, to guarantee the lower price.

You can call 1-800-468-3571 or 202-898-9000 or go online and mention user group code ATSATSA for your Atlas Society discount. You should register separately for the full event itself, which includes a reception at the Cato Institute and a gala banquet. See details at Atlassevents.org.

Since its publication half a century ago, Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged has inspired millions. At our celebration you will hear leading scholars, experts and achievers discuss the literary, philosophical, moral, economic and political aspects of this great novel and its impact on our world--past, present and future. Our keynote speakers are John Stossel of ABC's 20/20 show and Charles Murray, libertarian scholar.

Hear updates on the upcoming Atlas movie! Celebrate with others who love the book! Don't miss the excitement! If your life and thinking were changed by Atlas Shrugged, this is a day you won't want to miss!

You can get further information, updates and register online at Atlasevents.org.

When: Saturday, October 6, 2007, 8:00am- 9:00pm.

Conference and banquet location: Merriott Renaissance Hotel, 999 Ninth Street NW, Washington, D.C. 20001. Afternoon Reception: The Cato Institute, 1000 Massachusetts Ave. N.W., Washington, D.C. 20001

Seminar costs for entire day, reception at the Cato Institute and gala banquet: $210 before September 21; $250 after September 21; $150 student rate. Hotel: $199 per night at Renaissance Hotel by September 6.

Hope to see you all there!