Dean's Society Brainstorm

[deanwins]

I propose we create a new society.
The purpose of our society is to foster its membership, so that its base of ideas (recording both accepted and rejected, and maluable with membership consent or factioning), and its contining new generations of membership flourish unending through the future.

To become a member, one must agree explicitly to respect the property of other members.  Violations of property are encouraged to be resolved peacefully between violator and victim if possible. If not, the claim can be brought to a requested voluntary proceeding of a common Law "Court of Record" (Black's Law 5th edition), with a magistrate (not judge) a recorder, and a jury of peers.

The base of ideas is a work in progress. Any suggestions of contributions to the base are welcome.  A member need not agree to everything in the base.  Formation of competing societies and factions is welcomed: I encourage such, if you find it worthwhile.

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My proposed initial base:
- All fully self consistent systems of changing state systems (Realities with time/physics) exist.  There are an infinite number of such systems, each with different states or processes of change (physics).
- A Reality in no way can interact with another. They are fully independent.
- We happen to be in this Reality, we are a part of it.
- It is possible that our perceptions are only from a simulation... with simulated state and physics performed by a supercomputer in a meta Reality.  Examples: the Matrix movie computer simulation, or maybe Earth vs the world Heaven is in, as in the Jewish, Christian, or Islamic religion.
- Imagine: 1. A city & lands maintained by incredibly intelligent, wise, and powerful friends; 2. In a world with finite (yet bountiful) resources, and the potential for lies and violence.  What kind of character must one have in order to be accepted as their friend, and invited into their domain?  Productive, Honest (between friends), non-Violent, Intelligent, Mentally Rigorous, Physically Capable, more.
- Lets each act to make ourselves worthy of such an invitation.
- Lets work towards creating a such a society of friends now, in this experience.
- To whatever extent we can defend it without allowing slavers and looters from benefiting: lets work towards developing nourishing domains (land, tools, and communities).
- Find the Society(ies) where you determine you best belong, or make new ones, and work towards it thriving perpetually.
- Lets default towards peace and trade with non-members.  If a non-member violates (or threatens severely enough) our property, then we can treat them like violators.  Repeated acts of violence resulting from mental incompetence a definitive trait of an animal.

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Discussion:

This "society" idea is the culmination of my work trying to discover a satisfying purpose for my life.

With these ideas, anarchists and miniarchy cats become powerful motivated members of a society.  Atheism and Christianity are united (x the Jesus/John 3:16 part, which was likely an invention of slavers).  One  I didn't come to these conclusions of satisfying unifying purpose alone.  It was through years of learning and debating.  I like our conversation.  I hope we can together forge a new and extremely successful society. Even within this slave culture we live in.  Theres probably a lot we can learn from the Amish/Mennonites, especially in aspects of parenting and interacting with the State.  I was born into a slave culture, and still likely have lots of bad premises and habits.

I hope the powers that be dont wipe us out. Hence distributed and carefully built systems of value should be the starting point... until/unless the slaver system collapses.  I dont want to disturb them by rapidly red pilling herds of sheeple.  Sheeple must be left as slaves to the slavers, we cant save them.  Slavers are too powerful via bribery and vast numbers of looters, trickable (foolish), and blue pill (prefers to deny reality to accept an easy life of being a dependent slave).  They need to be able to see the sky (https://songmeanings.com/songs/view/6551/ https://youtube.com/watch?v=ajjXzcokMFk) themselves, with us only there to help guide them if they seek us.

Theres a good chance some of the slavers are intentionally culling the herd now.  I think they are inventivizing bad nutrition, medical procedures, and war.  They are culling the looters, fools, and lazy.  Lets work to survive the cull.

Cheers,

Dean

[Peter]

“You’ve got to put the past behind you, before you can move on.” – Forrest Gump

Unless your hypothetical society is on a separate plot of land outside of all the presently existing countries you will still be troubled by drug, gang, and random or targeted, shooting deaths. The residing culture including all of its ills cannot be avoided. You mentioned societies like the Amish or Mennonites but they are usually “out of the way” though not gated.

I like the idea of gated communities and the rich usually have them, or they own a large, gated estate. But unless you cut yourself off, you are still part of the society with all its bad points. I see problems within America, but we are one of the “freer” countries that can still have a MAGA movement. I suggest you join the MAGA universe.  

And that's all I got to say about that.

[Peter]

Here is a portion of an old letter I wrote to the objectivist site, “Atlantis.” Yikes, it was over twenty years ago!

From: "Peter Taylor" To: atlantis Subject: Re: ATL: Atlantis Café Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:36:50 GMT . . . .  However, why is anyone on Atlantis? To be with like-minded people, to not be alone, to gossip, to fuss with people and to settle old grudges, to learn, to contribute to every Objectivist's general knowledge, and to contribute to Consensus Objectivist Positions (If there can be such a thing.) I would say the main reason we are on Atlantis, is to interact with other people in a non-threatening way. Can you imagine having the arguments we have in person? No way. A letter can always be ignored or deleted. You may Never have to meet the people you talk to, or you can meet them at any time . . . .

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Dean,

Good to see you again.

That's one hell of a brain dump.

 

There are some good ideas there. But I wonder how you imagine implementing this (or some of it).

Telling people they must do this or that, or must not do this or that, or let's strive to be this way or that, will not lead them to do it. Worse. It will not lead them to want it. 

I, myself, have huge issues with authority. If the only thing telling me I must do something is someone saying so, I generally look at this size of his or her ability to hurt me if I disobey and go from there.  

The human penchant for violence has to be dealt with and restricted for human flourishing in a free society (or free societies) to prevail. 

I mean, what do you do with a howling hoard that shows up and says we are going to take your shit, sack and pillage you entire society, and rape all of you and kill you--and they have the weapons and organization to do it? Look at human history. Humans do this.

And how about the impostors within a free society who work toward taking it over? They look and act like good guys. And they spring force on you after they have weakened the social underpinnings from the inside and you can no longer defend yourself.

Let's put it this way. Human predators exist, from the monster kind all the way down to the cancer kind. And, to paraphrase the Bible, their name is Legion. 

 

The best system I have seen so far from a top-down view (which is where I detect you are brainstorming), once the problem of invasion has been settled and society is getting on with the business of flourishing, is negative rights for individuals added to checks and balances on power for the administrative running of society. It's what the Founding Fathers of the USA did.

This is enforced by the government having a monopoly on the use of force, but I have a different view than the normal one. I think this monopoly own works to sustain freedom if it is a half-assed monopoly. It's fine to make laws that individuals can only use force for defense, but human nature often throws a monkey wrench into the gears of that. I'm not talking about when people snap and go haywire. That happens. But I'm talking about something deeper: the standard American hero who obeys the law--up to a point. After that point, he takes matters into his own hands and resolves the issue. This doesn't work as a syllogism and I have not found any way to codify it, but look at most thriller movies and novels. That's what you get. And, as the saying goes, politics is downstream from culture.

At our stage of evolution, humans will fight each other at times because that's just what they do. Any system that ignores that is doomed to fail. It's a reality thing. One cannot devise a system for human living while ignoring human nature. It just doesn't work. Reality works the way it works, not the way some humans wish it would work.

So I like the idea of spreading a form of culture that makes good guys flourish, even when they decide they have to get violent, as the check and balance on governmental power.

 

On membership, here's a basic question. I'm not being facetious or argumentative. I'm illustrating a human nature idea. Why would I want to belong to such a group? This goes deeper than WIIFM (what's in it for me). This goes to my identity as an individual human being. Why would I desire living in such a collective? What makes me identify with such a group? What attracts me to it?

I saw you hint at an elite membership kind of idea (with a bunch of musts or conditions to be eligible to join) and humans do luvs them some prestige. So that would be one draw. The chosen ones idea works, too. Humans luvs thinking they are better at the root than other humans. Another could be reason, but you would have to sell it the way Rand did, with stories illustrating it in all facets of life so individuals can compare it to what they've already got.

Just ideas...

 

I am confused by what you mean by realities that are different and will be prohibited from interacting with each other. There is only one reality. No?

 

I agree with you that a group of elitist people are hell-bent on culling humans and the majority of people like their private livestock. I call them the Predator Class.

We will survive them. But that means we have to take them down. I support efforts at doing that.

This is one of the reasons I am big on MAGA. I haven't seen anything else reality-wise that stands a chance of stopping them within a generation. A new generation will stop them, of course. Their kids will fuck up or rebel, as has happened in all of human history.  Not all, but plenty. And then their kids will go off into their own follies with all that inherited wealth and power to make a gigantic mess of things...

Hmmmm...

 

 

Sorry if my comments seem disjointed. You gave a brainstorm and I am commenting more or less the same way.

Good thoughts, though.

Michael

[deanwins]

Michael, Its good to talk to you again too.  This should have been a quick post, because I needed to go help on the farm.

Ill have more time tomorrow or next at home on my computer, where i can fix grammar and spelling faster.

"I am confused by what you mean by realities that are different and will be prohibited from interacting with each other. There is only one reality. No?"

There is only one reality we can and ever will be able to verify the existence of, ours.  Its not that we are "prohibited".  Its that they simply are completely different entire systems.  For example there may be a Reality with just one neutron... and it just... is.  And then another Reality that is two neutrons, and they circle around eachother forever.  And another one with two neutrons, but instead of a circle orbit, its slightly oval.  And another one with even more stretched oval.  None of these Realities interact with the others, they just are what they are, and do what they do, purely independently from the others.

Why do I assert that an infinite number of Realities exist?  Because its a satisfying answer to the ultimate creation question: "how did our Reality come into existence... when something cannot come from nothing?" My answer: all fully self consistent systems existence as independent Realities, simply because they are self consistent/true.  We happen to be in this one.  We can model simpler Reality systems within our own.

 

My only requirement for joining our society is to agree to respect the property of our members.  I have ideas of what kind of behavior is virtuous, and our members inherently want our society to be successful... because many are parents... and we are working towards providing an environment for the children to flourish in.

Know that Ive been slave trained, and I also reject authority commands and attempts at injections of purpose.  Notice how careful I was about not demanding members do anything or believe anything, and encouraging leaving and factioning.

I agree, bad guys taking over good groups is a big problem.  Im confident the Predators do it regularly, they seek thriving growing successful cultures and work to destroy them... particularly if they are threatening to free sheeple.  Thats another reason why I prefer a more distributed approach.  I want to make a collection of books and ideas and make it he basis of a new... bible... that encompasses old religions, and their consistent integration with all of my ideas and ones Ive got from talking with others, and put them in a digitally signed video and text data package that includes defining all the basic words with video.  Its a big project... who knows if I will be ambitious enough to complete it.

People want to join the society im building because ive been successful, and I've helped them, and I've offered to help them in the future.  In the future, as our society grows... others may want to join because it is becoming known that our underpinning ideas make us successful.  Our ideas are better, they make people healthier and happier, in real.  If there is a severe flaw, of course, Reality may be cruel, and wipe us out.  Again I am very weary of the Predators, the men behind the curtain, the Rothschilds, etc, and the general police.  I try to be tactful.

Re: government structure:  Note I make no prescription on governance.  I'd prefer there were thousands of societies like mine all factions, each with varying sized communities and cities, each with their own government structure.  I personally dont like interacting with government in any way. I live a hybrid life between living in the city and farm. Theres no gov for my small society, just the idea of a Court of Record, which we've never needed to do.

I am with you on the vigilante thoughts.  Sometimes gov/court cant create justice because of lack of witness evidence or corruption.  In that case, a man may need to wisely create justice himself.

I am confident most of the slavery and corrupt power system today is a result of the enforcement of monopoly on money printing by the bankers.  It started with them bringing over and auctioning slaves, which among other more obvious problems, wrecked the Purpose of our great great grandparents children: to do productive simple work for the success of the family (learning to LIVE, voluntarily, with asking all sort of questions, making mistakes, and creatively coming up with new ideas to make work easier).  Living: taking actions that result in growing and improving one's body and external resources, both material and ideological, and fostering children.  The bankers then later said they had to conquer our great grandfathers to "free the slaves" (that they brought over and gave), and in the process, Established the District of Columbia, centralized banking, confiscated real money and land through generations, and caused our grandfathers to go from being human kings of their own land in Common Law jurisdiction to subjects (social security cardholders) who pay taxes to the powers that be, who live with all sorts of statutes of what they can do on the land they are Residents on (instead of king on Domain), with money that empowers the slavers via money printing and bribery of mercenaries.

Dean

[Peter]

Michael wrote: “On membership, here's a basic question. I'm not being facetious or argumentative. I'm illustrating a human nature idea. Why would I want to belong to such a group?”

I agree with Michael that the cultural phenomenon of “Make America Great Again,” will let the ship of state find the right direction for life, liberty, reason, and the pursuit of happiness . . . . and to survive. And that goes for the whole, currently existing, USA. Of course individual States, counties, cities, and towns tack on more laws. That is why many people leave the more restrictive areas. But States cannot contradict the U.S. Constitution.       

A few articles for an American / objectivist government. Always vote!

Article One: America exists, covering a certain geographical location. The right of consent to be governed is automatically given by anyone who continues to live here. I know it gets a bit iffy when you consider that children do not say yea.

Article Two: At some point, America may disband as did older Empires or more recently The Soviet Union. Occasionally, a new state may be created, with the consent of the governed, extending the geographical boundaries of America. A territory may decline the invitation, as did Puerto Rico.

Article Three: An individual, within the geographical boundaries of The United States of America MAY NOT secede from The Union. While you live here, you give your consent to be governed and you will abide by the laws of the land. The Constitution is Forever. Welcome to America!

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Dean,

I just came across this and it seems about as relevant as relevant can be.

It's from James Corbett

Meeting People is Easy - #SolutionsWatch

Meeting People is Easy - #SolutionsWatch

RUMBLE.COM

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SHOW NOTES AND MP3: https://www.corbettreport.com/solutionswatch-meetingpeople/ Here on #SolutionsWatch we've looked at Building Community as a key part of...

 

 

Here's the video in the article on Rumble.

Meeting People is Easy - #SolutionsWatch

RUMBLE.COM

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SHOW NOTES AND MP3: https://www.corbettreport.com/solutionswatch-meetingpeople/ Here on #SolutionsWatch we've looked at Building Community as a key part of...

 

As the idea of making something new always starts with food and shelter and things like that, you will find some of the suggestions are related to gardening, farming and things like that.

 

But two items James discussed stood out to me.

Unjected - A community of people who did not get the jab. These are people who organized against massive censorship during the recent bioweapon and Big Pharma debacle. One of their focuses is getting people who need blood transfusions connected with donors who did not get the jab. Another, of all things, is dating.  This is a little outside what you want, but I see it as a smaller more limited version.

 

I believe you might be interested in in the following.

THE FREE REPUBLIC OF P.A.Z.NIA

This is a vetted community (like you want to do), a nation, that has no geographical constraints. 

From what little I saw, I like what these people have been doing. Many of the things I saw are similar to what you are talking about. Different words, but similar concepts.

 

As for myself, I am becoming more and more interested in El Salvador, especially since they made the plunge and began to accept noncentralized money that was not connected to the government as legal tender. I'm talking about Bitcoin. The way that country has turned around is a beacon to the rest of the world.

 

I'll comment on your comments a little later. I love James Corbett and I just saw his video. The coincidence was too much, so I thought what the hell. I posted it.

 

Michael

[deanwins]

Michael,

The shutdowns during the "virus" "pandemic" influence me and my best friend to switch gears and get some rural land to build a farm and make sure our families were very secure vs shortages.  We didn't want to be stuck in a situation where we had to go to some camp to get food/starved... but only if we submitted our bodies to questionable medical procedures.  God, it still blows my mind how the American people and businesses went along with the shutdowns, and the fucking stupid 6 foot and mask stuff.  The world is full of sheeple.

The farm is going pretty good, much more expensive than I thought to get started though.  We eat mostly naturally fed animals... by the way... and not much else.

Ill check those things out.  I dont really like signing up for online freedom projects... since when Ron Paul ran & there was a freedom minded organization (tea party) that turn into an IRS shitlist honeypot.  100% chance those projects will be infiltrated and monitored by CIA etc. Theres also the "freedom cell" thing people are doing.

 

My little community IRL isnt advertised.  Its just my close friend and some respectable productive people whose life situation jive with ours.

 

I commented on Bitcoin the last time I posted here.  As soon as I heard about it I dived into it deeply on how it works.  I'm a computer engineer... so I code reviewed the whole thing.  I'm also an Austrian Economist.  Bitcoin technology, including its consensus and mining proof of work system, is absolutely revolutionary and extremely useful for honest people who want to trade and store honest money without being victom to the slavers in the slaver world we live in.  I'm extremely excited to see what extent Bitcoin tech can shrug off the Predators primary source of power: printing monopoly money.

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

6 hours ago, deanwins said:

I dont really like signing up for online freedom projects...

Dean,

Heh.

One of the things James Corbett emphasizes is meeting and interacting with real people in real locations, not just doing shit over the Internet.

However, the Internet is kinda real...

It's one of those paradoxes.

In other words, the Internet is useful to do things where you will not need the Internet.

(EDIT: I worded that in an inartful manner. I mean the Internet is useful for setting up things where the Internet will not be needed. In other words, it's good for helping to set up things, but not so useful to keep them running if connection with real people--and reality--is the standard.)

 

 

James Corbett does not endorse any of those links. He's merely informing his public about them because they caught his eye for some reason. He expects the people in his public to use their own independent minds according to their own values. I believe James is one of those people you can trust online.

Needless to say, I am a huge fan of his.

 

As to Bitcoin, I am all in. God knows I have tried to read and understand Satoshi Nakamoto's original 2009 paper, "Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System." I always get a few paragraphs in, uncross my eyes and snap out of the coma and wonder what in hell I was reading. My thing is the good guy kicking the ass of the bad guy and getting the girl in the end.  

I am a huge fan of Max Keiser and Stacy. They are the ones who explained the philosophical aspects of Bitcoin in a form I resonate with. It can't be confiscated so it's the perfect money. And so on.

I believe Max and those around him are the modern day equivalents of the Founding Fathers. They not only managed to separate currency from the state, they are implementing this in real time in a physical place on this earth, El Salvador. (They're even mining Bitcoin with a friggin' volcano. I mean, come on. Will no room be left to create myths and legends?  )And the results are outstanding.

What's more, it's growing. From what Max says, Guatemala is ready to follow El Salvador's path any day now. And other countries are lining up. Even Mexico is studying this.

I think this is so cool because it is happening over in some tiny Latin American country the snoots look down on while they fight each other over central banks, the slave culture (to use your jargon) through globalism, even nuclear war and so on. After all, they are the smart worthy people in the important countries and the world is theirs for dividing up. Right? And while they are busy destroying each other, the seed of their real destroyer has sprouted at a place they don't even notice. By the time they figure it out, that seed will have grown to a size where they will not be able to overrun it with militaries and their normal dirty rotten bullshit.

What's more, people will be adhering to this new form of economy and governance because they want to, not because they have been forced to, or blackmailed to, or drugged to, or covertly manipulated to through behavioral engineering. It's going to be fun watching the inversion happen as people all over the world start waking up and rejecting them. If you know anything about living species, especially higher mammals, you know that once a stampede starts, former bigshots and whatever they organized get trampled.

 

Michael