Facts and freedom

[Bill Blake]

This is what I have in my twitter pinned tweet:

"To abandon facts is to abandon freedom" -- Timothy Snyder

We seem to be seeing the truth of this in real time.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Bill,

Welcome to OL.

From your reference to Timothy Snyder, if this is the same Timothy Snyder involved in foreign affairs, I presume you are an a never-Trumper.

I am pro-Trump.

Hopefully, you are not one to call those who want no war in Ukraine a Putin apologist and all that, but we'll see.

Please be respectful.

A different dude with this same profile as you recently showed up here. Except he didn't heed the quote you mentioned about facts. He wanted to insult others (me in particular, but others also) as his main intellectual discourse and cherry pick his facts. He was big on mindreading--he would tell you what you think before he even decided to say something. At present, he is under moderation.

I hope you are different.

After all, this is a discussion forum.

Seeing two in a row show up is setting off my warning bells. I hope I am wrong. And, I hope you are not him trying to game moderation.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Bill,

OK, I looked into you a bit. At least I found you on Twitter so you look legit.

(I can't tell if you are that other guy because that other guy does not use his or her real name on anything.)

For the reader, here is your Twitter account:

Bill Blake

I took a look at some of your tweets to get to know some of your thinking (and to see if I popped off too soon).

You seem to be quick to block people. For instance:

Quote

I have blocked @2B7C89526.  He has become a propagandist for Russia.  I refuse to associate with anyone who is capable of such dishonesty or who supports murder, kidnapping, torture, and rape.

(I often repeat-quote Twitter messages because if something happens to the tweet on Twitter's end, the words no longer show up here.)

Since I don't like to take people's word at face value unless I know and trust them, and I don't know you at all, I went to that account to see the Russian propaganda and that other stuff you mentioned for myself.

Frankly, I didn't see any Russia propaganda. Nor did I see any support of murder, kidnapping, torture, and rape.

I did see things critical of Zelensi, Azon, and things like that, but nothing extolling Russia.

Granted, I was only skimming so I might have missed something.

Then I started scrolling down pages instead of tweets. While scrolling pages, this popped out at me:

Quote

The Ukrainian soldiers shouldn't have taken Babushka's flag under false pretenses, thrown it in the dirt, and stepped on it, but it doesn't change the fact that the USSR flag is drenched in blood.

The USSR flag is drenched in blood?

That does not sound like Russian propaganda to me. I sounds like the contrary. And yeah, I know the USSR no longer exists. And, granted, your tweet was dated April 4 and that person's was April 9. But, in general, I don't find people change their minds from being a propagandist to a polar opposite critic in such a short time and I'm just relating my impression on skimming.

 

Based on this, my impression is that you and I are not going to get along well.

But I might be wrong. So I'm willing to look and see.

I'm just laying where I stand all out front. I don't know you, I don't know the Twitter person I quoted, but I do know me. And now you know a little bit about me, too.

For the rest, I'm in wait and see mode. I have turned off my judgments and want to see what there is to identify. After I am confident of my identification, then I will judge.

But humans can't completely not judge when they interact, so to start, my default judgment is I wish you well.

 

Michael

[Bill Blake]

It's that Snyder, though I had no idea of his views when I adopted that quote--it simply seemed (and still seems) very apt.  I think you'd call me a never-Trumper, though I suspect that Biden will prove worse than Trump.  As for Ukraine, I presently think that we should not put our own military there, but we should be providing funding and material to Ukraine.  However, I am rethinking that position and we'll see where I end up.

I don't name call--at least in a conversation.  However, when I block someone, I will say exactly what I think when I announce the block.  Then unkind words might be used, if they are factual.  Hopefully, that situation won't arise here.  Other than that, I insist on civility myself--one of the unkind phrases I often use when blocking is, "Blocked for incivility".

I'm a bit curious as to what you mean by "same profile".  You mean, the same avatar?  That would be odd; I haven't seen anyone else using it.  Anyway, if you want to know who I am, find me as billblake2018 on twitter, reddit, liberdon, or clubhouse.  I number among my mutuals Amy Peikoff and Jennifer Grossman, and you'll often find me running my mouth in Lee Pierson's "Cutting Edge" discussions on cliubhouse.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Bill,

I like it.

Sorry if I got off a bit bumpy.

You would not believe what shows up around here at times. And I am a one-man band on running this place.

(btw - the other person calls himself or herself "Abiding Dude." I am going to take you at your word based on what little you wrote and am glad and relieved you are not that person.)

I saw you have been into Objectivism for a time. You might find the Randian emphasis here a bit weird, although I'm not saying you will. But in case there is any doubt, most places online want to teach Objectivism. But most people come here because Rand has touched their lives in one manner or another and her ideas are important to them to varying degrees. But from there, they go off to where their best thinking leads them and that goes in many directions.

In other words, Objectivism is not an end point here, it is a starting point. And even then, it is not a litmus test to gain entry. There is no One True Way. This isn't relativism. It isn't the Open verses Closes System debate. It's nothing like that.

It's just recognizing a fact I had to learn the hard way. Most people are good and doing the best they can. But man are they different.  And, of course, there are scoundrels everywhere.  

Michael

[Bill Blake]

Yes, I do a lot of blocking, though 2b was a special case.  He was a mutual, and I almost never block a mutual for anything other than outright incivility.  But 2b had been posting a lot of nonsense for a long time, and his pro-Russian tweets were just the last straw.  I expect to go back and revisit the block, since you've presented evidence that I was mistaken as to his intentions.

[Bill Blake]

21 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Bill,

I like it.

Sorry if I got off a bit bumpy.

You would not believe what shows up around here at times. And I am a one-man band on running this place.

(btw - the other person calls himself or herself "Abiding Dude." I am going to take you at your word based on what little you wrote and am glad and relieved you are not that person.)

I saw you have been into Objectivism for a time. You might find the Randian emphasis here a bit weird, although I'm not saying you will. But in case there is any doubt, most places online want to teach Objectivism. But most people come here because Rand has touched their lives in one manner or another and her ideas are important to them to varying degrees. But from there, they go off to where their best thinking leads them and that goes in many directions.

In other words, Objectivism is not an end point here, it is a starting point. And even then, it is not a litmus test to gain entry. There is no One True Way. This isn't relativism. It isn't the Open verses Closes System debate. It's nothing like that.

It's just recognizing a fact I had to learn the hard way. Most people are good and doing the best they can. But man are they different.  And, of course, there are scoundrels everywhere.  

Michael

I've actually read this site on and off for many years, probably starting about 2012, so I know what to expect here.  What moved me to sign up was that someone over on reddit mentioned ARI Watch in an unwarrantedly positive light.  I knew the site had a discussion about it, so I hunted it up and posted a link.  Then, since I had the page open and I had something I thought would fit here, I decided to create an account.  I have an essay I'm working on, to the effect that the Objectivist ethics and politics are incomplete and are often not useful, and even counterproductive, in the real world.  The draft introduction is complete; where would you suggest that I post it for criticism?

As for scoundrels, oh yeah.  I did my share of moderating back in the 90s.....

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Bill,

Post it anywhere you like.

We have an Articles section, but it's not working as an Articles section should. And hasn't for a long time. (Long story.  )

More people will probably see it if you post it in the Living Room. Or the Ethics or Politics section. If it's writing criticism you wish, you could put it in the Creative Writing section, although it's not fiction.

(Actually, I don't have a section to cater to people who want critiques of their writing. Hmmmm... I might make one. It will certainly be more useful than some of the sections around here.  If I do create one, we can transfer what you post to the new section at the time.)

But feel free to use your judgment.

btw - Pleased to meet you.

As to ARI Watch, I'm into checks and balances, so I like that it exists just as I like that ARI exists.

Mark and I, though, have a love-hate relationship. At least he speaks his mind as do I. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we clash. I have never known him to outright lie to win an argument, though. I think that is one of the reasons we talk to each other.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

28 minutes ago, Bill Blake said:

He was a mutual...

Bill,

What is a "mutual"?

Michael

[Bill Blake]

Just now, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Bill,

What is a "mutual"?

Michael

A person who one follows who is also one's follower.  Twitter slang.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Just now, Bill Blake said:

A person who one follows who is also one's follower.  Twitter slang.

Bill,

Got it. Thanks.

When I get around to doing my Internet Marketing thing, that is exactly what I will be doing (and I've studied all kinds of different techniques to cull and grow and so on.)

It just didn't occur to me to apply this to politics. 

Man, talk about a compartmentalized brain...

I love being me, but sometimes I wonder how I survived...

 

Michael

[Bill Blake]

3 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Bill,

Post it anywhere you like.

We have an Articles section, but it's not working as an Articles section should. And hasn't for a long time. (Long story.  )

More people will probably see it if you post it in the Living Room. Or the Ethics or Politics section. If it's writing criticism you wish, you could put it in the Creative Writing section, although it's not fiction.

(Actually, I don't have a section to cater to people who want critiques of their writing. Hmmmm... I might make one. It will certainly be more useful than some of the sections around here.  If I do create one, we can transfer what you post to the new section at the time.)

But feel free to use your judgment.

btw - Pleased to meet you.

As to ARI Watch, I'm into checks and balances, so I like that it exists just as I like that ARI exists.

Mark and I, though, have a love-hate relationship. At least he speaks his mind as do I. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we clash. I have never known him to outright lie to win an argument, though. I think that is one of the reasons we talk to each other.

Michael

Oh, I recommended that people who are interested in ARI should look at ARI Watch.  But that they should do so recognizing that the guy who writes it is not exactly an objective observer.