Flight 93 and United 93

[NickOtani]

I saw Flight 93 and United 93, back to back, two movies about the same event. Flight 93 came out first and got less publicity. United 93 just came out now on DVD and is getting advertised a lot. Both movies, I think, are very good.

Both movies used unknown, non-stars, to preserve the realistic feeling that these were normal people, people we all know. We got to see, in both movies, how events on 9/11 unfolded, how people were slow to believe just what was happening until they saw the second plane, on television, hit the second tower. Then, people started receiving telephone calls from relatives still in the air, reporting the highjacking.

The movie Flight 93 focused more on the families on the ground. We saw a mother taking care of her children while watching the Trade Center tragedy on television. It was a nice day and a safe, domestic setting, contrasting with all the violence in other places. This pulled at our heart-strings. It was dramatic.

The movie United 93 focused more on the technical side. The main Air Traffic Control guy played himself and showed us exactly how he found out about the situation and dealt with it, from “Let me know when you have more certain information. Keep me informed,” to “Ground all aircraft and send back international flights. No more planes in the air over the U.S. until further notice.”

We didn’t see the surviving families in the movie part of United 93, but we did meet them, the real families, in the Bonus Features of the DVD.

Some people say it is still too early for these movies, that the events were too tragic and too close. This underscores how safe we are in the US, how detached we feel from troubled countries. Because of us, innocent people in other places are being routinely bombed and killed. Yes, it is more personal when it happens to us, but we should remember how other people feel also.

Bis bald,

Nick

[AndrewED]

Then, people started receiving telephone calls from relatives still in the air, reporting the highjacking.

This is definitely one of the most hilarious parts of the Al-Qaeda Conspiracy Theory.

Cellphones simply do not work at high speeds or high altitudes.

[Barbara Branden]

Nick: "Some people say it is still too early for these movies, that the events were too tragic and too close." I disagree with these people. Too many of us are already forgetting the events, and forgetting the horror and indignatiion they felt. We need to be reminded. And we need to be reminded that clones of the perpetrators of 9/11 still are plotting to destroy us.

Barbara

[Chris Grieb]

Barbara; I agree that much of the horror of 9-11 has been forgotten. I was very sorry at the failure of United 93 at the box office. I did not attend the Oliver Stone movie because I was afraid of what he would do to the story. I hope people will buy the two films on dvd.

[NickOtani]

To Barbara,

Yes, I agree we need to be reminded of recent history. We tend to become complacent and vulnerable. We also need to be reminded of our culpabilty in killing innocent people, as collateral damage, in going after those we think are responsible for going after us. And, we need to be reminded that not all Muslims and people of Arab descent are evil. It is evil to discriminate against them all indiscriminately.

bis bald,

Nick

[Barbara Branden]

Nick, I refuse to have the umpteenth go-around of this debate, so I'll merely put it on the record that I profoundly disagree with your statement that "We also need to be reminded of our culpabilty in killing innocent people, as collateral damage, in going after those we think are responsible for going after us."

Barbara.

[Brant Gaede]

Yes, I agree we need to be reminded of recent history. We tend to become complacent and vulnerable. We also need to be reminded of our culpabilty [sic] in killing innocent people, as collateral damage, in going after those we think are responsible for going after us. And, we need to be reminded that not all Muslims and people of Arab descent are evil. It is evil to discriminate against them all indiscriminately.

Nick

How can I be "reminded" when I was never "minded" in the first place? If you want to make a case for collective guilt go ahead and try; that's the first order of business. Don't pretend the job has been done. It is interesting how you let the Muslims off the collective-guilt hook, but not Americans. If Ayn Rand was against anything it was this sort of thing.

--Brant

Edited October 7, 2006 by Brant Gaede

[seeker]

Nick, I refuse to have the umpteenth go-around of this debate, so I'll merely put it on the record that I profoundly disagree with your statement that "We also need to be reminded of our culpabilty in killing innocent people, as collateral damage, in going after those we think are responsible for going after us."

Barbara.

I totally agree with Barbara here -

[NickOtani]

I don't really understand. Why would someone profoundly disagree with me that we should be reminded of our culpability in killing innocent people, as collateral damage, in going after those we think are responsible for going after us? And, where have I been debating this umpteen times?

Let me put on record that I profoundly disagree that killing innocent people, as when we dropped the atomic bombs on Japan, is ever justified.

Nick

[NickOtani]

BTW, I wish more of our battles would be on messageboards rather than in residential and business areas.

bis bald,

Nick

[Barbara Branden]

Nick: "where have I been debating this umpteen times?" I didn't mean that you have, but that I and many others have, ad nauseum. And it's futile.

You wrote:"Let me put on record that I profoundly disagree that killing innocent people, as when we dropped the atomic bombs on Japan, is ever justified." Fair enough, it's on the record.

Barbara

[NickOtani]

Again, I think it is better to debate than to fly airplanes into buildings or drop bombs in places where innocent people reside. However, I can understand why some people would rather not debate this issue. As much as I enjoy debating and think it can be productive, I need to respect my opponents somewhat, even if I disagree with them. I have such little respect for people who think killing innocent people is morally justified that I really don't want to debate with them. This is why I sometimes walk away from debates with people who think dropping the bombs on Japan was a good thing. If this is how you feel about people like me, then we must really dislike each other.

Nick

[John Dailey]

The only problem about 'debating' the issue of flying airplanes into bldgs (or whether such flyers have a justifiable set of complaints as an excuse for doing such) is that the ones who do such show that they prefer extortion-demands rather than 'debating.'

Debating the 'issue' with those who show no desire to fly planes into bldgs is as unproductive as one can get and really amounts to nothing more than merely circle-jerking over how much compassion should be given to those who have lethal rage targeting innocent and handy scapegoats for their own self-made and self-kept lack of societal productiveness.

What 'compassion' (or 'understanding', if you will) for those oriented at nothing but destruction of heretics can be justly given them, I have no idea.

LLAP

J:D