Brant Gaede Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Greg's position is ignorant. Availability and cost of building materials are determined by total construction demand, not just a handful who build their own shacks and pay cash like I did. There is over $13 trillion in outstanding US residential mortgages (single family, multifamily, apartment buildings and farms). Another $10 trillion financed commercial property construction. The price you pay for a sink, a roll of wire, or a pallet of 2x4s is based on economies of scale and a huge distribution network, most of it delivered by intermodal 18-wheelers. I keep harping on the truck fleet because there are 300,000 of them on the road. Over half would screech to a halt without lending.Nope. The lending's been done. This applies to the whole of the economy since WWII. Qua lending the economy is in a fulminating state. The ability and need to borrow for whatever reason is in increasing conflict with the need to lend. We are being set up for the next great depression. This time instead of riding the rails it will be, is, lining up for food stamps and other "benefits." The real economy is already a myth sustained by government expenditures and salaries. These are hard for states and local governments to sustain; not for the Federal government. The great debt default is just starting. It's going to take 20-30 years and war to work through this. Assets will change hands but the trucks will roll as long as there is any demand for trucking. Gotta feed those gov't families.--Brantget out of debt: pay it off or default (you need to know the "art" of defaulting) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 There are two economies... Solvent Capitalist and Indebted Creditist. And you can absolutely KNOW for yourself to which one you have hitched your wagon by whether or not the quality of your life is affected by a Federal Reserve change in interest rates! I'm unaffected because I operate in the Solvent Capitalist sector. I have continued to consistently prosper for decades no matter who gets elected as President and regardless of economic cycles. I've done just as well with Obama as with Reagan... because I'm not a Creditist. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Brant writes: Nope. The lending's been done. This applies to the whole of the economy since WWII. Most of the American economy is Creditist... NOT Capitalist. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Credit is fine if you know how to use it. The use of credit is not incompatible with capitalism. "Creditism" is a red herring.--Brantfirst Greg throws down the roses on his path, then he walks down it over them--if he grimaces sometimes it's because he forgot about the thorns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf DeVoon Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Greg's position is ignorant. Availability and cost of building materials are determined by total construction demand, not just a handful who build their own shacks and pay cash like I did. There is over $13 trillion in outstanding US residential mortgages (single family, multifamily, apartment buildings and farms). Another $10 trillion financed commercial property construction. The price you pay for a sink, a roll of wire, or a pallet of 2x4s is based on economies of scale and a huge distribution network, most of it delivered by intermodal 18-wheelers. I keep harping on the truck fleet because there are 300,000 of them on the road. Over half would screech to a halt without lending.Nope. The lending's been done.I was talking about commercial credit for cargoes, which in turn is all about demand. We're going to see bankruptcies.Freight rates peaked, now in decline, putting pressure on transportation profits. New truck orders have crashed.Since 2011 commodities overall as measured by PowerShares Commodity Index ETF (DBC) is down 59%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Wolf wrote:Honest injun, Greg, you have no idea of what you're saying. Your "zero-sum" mantra is a cartoon fantasy.Sure, Wolf... no one lost a penny in 2008... and no one gained from their loss either. This is the Creditist world... Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Brant writes:Credit is fine if you know how to use it. The use of credit is not incompatible with capitalism. "Creditism" is a red herring.Credit is not incompatible with Creditism. Solvency is compatible with Capitalism."Being able to make debt payments is solvency." and "Credit is capital." Those two LIES are both articles of faith in the debt worshipping religion of Creditism.first Greg throws down the roses on his path, then he walks down it over them--if he grimaces sometimes it's because he forgot about the thornsThere are no thorns in my path, Brant... because I'm a 100% solvent American Capitalist. I follow this Bible advice because it affirms the right way to live:OWE NOTHING TO ANYONE except to loveand seek the best for one another;for he who unselfishly loves his neighborhas fulfilled the essence of the lawrelating to ones fellowman.Romans 13:8That's actually the key to a successful business. Serving your neighbors with honest, equitable, win/win, value for value transactions.Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 When I worked in an office and it was business to business all we did was ship and bill. No one paid first. If they paid within 30 days they could take X percent off the invoice. It's the retail customer who pays first unless someone does a service. The plumber fixes the leak he presents his bill. You take a cab ride you pay--usually--when you get to where you are going. (Hint, in most cases the meter rate is negotiable before the trip. Offer to pay cash for say 20% off the meter. The cabbie can take a 10% hit if you use a credit or debit card.)"Creditism" as a critique is for going deeper and deeper into debt. If you can pay your accounts payable in a reasonable amount of time you're okay. If one company doesn't know another it might say send a check to start things rolling. It doesn't have to have previous experience with you if you already have a track record.A trucking company is liable for the cargo in transit, but the cargo value is between the shipper and the shippee. The old Dick Simon company was propelled into bankruptcy after I drove for it a year. I anticipated it so I switched to the owner-op division which was considered an asset. For me there was only one week of poor business as it transitioned itself to Central Refrigerated. As I drove many hundreds of company drivers were told to report back to several different terminals. They lost their jobs as the company shrunk. The yard in Conley, GA was packed with these trucks which were sold. The skunk trucks were gone. I missed that logo. The company itself ad been crapily run and over-expanded. (Dick Simon owed me about $500 for incorrect re-embursements. Gone. Central Refrigerated, by way of coincidence, after I quit a year later, said I owed it about the same amount. As far as I was concerned it was all the same company and I kept that money; it was my money.) Sick Dick Simon wasn't helped by the fact that two very valuable loads were stolen: about $500,000 of Kodak cameras and about $500,000 of lobsters. It also wasn't helped by not properly vetting one of the drivers it hired--a crazy man who drove his tractor up the stairs of the California statehouse in Sacramento between two pillars that stripped off his fuel tanks. He died in the fire. (My fav trucking story: the transport of freshly printed money--a 53' trailer full. This is like hundreds of millions of dollars. His Federal escort said don't stop except for A, B and C. Do not pull into any weigh station. So he blows by a weigh station and the local highway yokel comes after him lights flashing. The only problem was the presence of several escort vehicles. The yokel gave up. Then there was the federally secured shipment: "No one opens that trailer, driver." At an inspection station he's asked to open the trailer. I don't know if he said yes or no or what, but they open it up. Immediately federal agents spill out of several cars and everybody gets arrested. Law enforcement arrests law enforcement--and the driver. One such shipment was out of a military base. No one opens that trailer said the general to the driver. If they try here's my card. They better call me so I can tell them they're about to do a federal crime, like fucking with national security and the US Air Force. [i've told these stories before here, I'm sure.])Yep--the country runs on credit. I owe you and you owe me. Even if Greg paid cash, almost all if not all of his electrical supplies and equipment came to his door on credit conveyance. Capitalism does not get rid of the money lending--and lenders. They facilitate capitalist transactions. They too are capitalists.--Brant(my post crossed with Greg's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf DeVoon Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Little signs bug me. Grocery store sales flat, down slightly last several years, but population increased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Brant writes:If you can pay your accounts payable in a reasonable amount of time you're okay......if you're a Creditist. Creditists can only possess without owning, because they can only afford to rent or lease or mortgage.Even if Greg paid cash, almost all if not all of his electrical supplies and equipment came to his door on credit conveyance. (shrug...) I have absolutely no problem with that, Brant... ...because those are personal choices freely made by others who get what they deserve as the consequences of their actions... just like I get for mine.Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I used a credit card to buy my lens. I didn't feel entirely comfortable walking in with 12000 in cash lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Wow... expensive glasses, Jules. Everything I own was bought with cash... including vehicles, land, and homes.Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Lol that was for one lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 How much was the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 I have a sigma 120-300mm f2.8 sport that was about 3600 and a 105mm f2.8 macro lens that was about 1000. D4S camera was about 6500.I ma pick up a 14-24mm f2.8 for landscapes in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Ah, useful tools of the trade. Technology blesses all of us by constantly reaching new pinnacles of quality and precision that people in the past could only dream about.Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 And it is accelerating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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