Why is there religion???

[BaalChatzaf]

4 hours ago, PDS said:

Can you point me to an authoritative source for the statement that free will dwells within the HUP?    Not being snarky.   i am genuinely interested. 

Have a look here:  http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/quantum-physics-free-will/

[moralist]

3 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

It's fun to watch Greg being chased around a tree with a stick when Greg isn't moving.

I just let Jonathan wear himself out. 

How can someone be so stupid as to actually believe doing something in your own best financial interests is being ruled by government? That's why he's a failure.

 

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

Jonathan was using reductio ad absurdum sarcasm.

As for being a failure, that's your un-empirically validated deduction to that man.

--Brant

[moralist]

1 hour ago, Brant Gaede said:

As for being a failure, that's your un-empirically validated deduction to that man.

Jonathan isn't a man either... he's a male who failed to grow into a man.

And that's my totally subjective opinion.  

Greg

[BaalChatzaf]

On 5/22/2016 at 7:09 PM, moralist said:

Might your last name be Megele, Herr Bob?.    

 

Greg

That name should be Mengele.  And no it isn't. 

[Brant Gaede]

4 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said:

That name should be Mengele.  And no it isn't. 

Greg is goy insensitive dumb about his remark.

--Brant

[BaalChatzaf]

44 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

Greg is goy insensitive dumb about his remark.

--Brant

I have had Jewish people toss the Mengele remark at me because of my non-conventional views.

I used to think sentiment and basic emotion rendered our moral judgement defective.  Of late I have become convinced it is our "wired in"  moral intuition that motivates our search for moral principle.   It is the impulse to rectitude and sociable habit that -creates- our moral systems.  Some sort of ur-morality exists in most humans well before they can think in terms of right and wrong.

Alas,  nature and genetics have shortchanged me in this regard,  but I have constructed for myself an empirical similitude to moral impulse and "moral instinct".  I came into this world with some parts missing and I have had to reconstruct them in an ad hoc and empirical manner in order to get along with other folks.

 

44 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

 

[Brant Gaede]

Some Jews can be very nasty in a way a Christian can't. Also if you scratch a Jew it's Jew all the way down. Christians don't tend to go that deep. I find many Mormons, for instance, to be very on the surface with their social comportments. It's very hard for a Jew to be a hypocrite. Hypocrites tend to be Christians. Many go to church pretending to believe. Others make themselves believe, especially Protestants who tend to be more secular than Catholics. All these remarks don't gainsay the tremendous human variations taking in myriad exceptions.

Jews don't go out and proselytize. Nor do they spread their faith by conquest. Those are the big non-Holocaust reasons there aren't many Jews in this seven-billion people world. Because not all nice Jewish boys marry nice Jewish girls, Jews will be all but completely gone in one or two thousand years, their brainy genes gone to goydom, remembered more in myth (and Richard Feynman videos) than seeing them in the flesh.

--Brant

I wonder how much I just wrote is crap

[Jonathan]

16 hours ago, moralist said:

That's not being ruled.

You're totally ruled! You're fricking owned by government! You're dominated and controlled! You're government's obedient little puppy who eager volunteers to do whatever trick they command just to get a treat from them, a treat which they stole from you in the first place!

 

Quote

I voluntarily chose to enter into a contract with the government so I can enjoy the privileges of a Contractors license. It enhances business status and credibility to be legally licensed and bonded. In short, it's good for business because you can make a LOT more money.

That's what I said!!! You're submissive to government intervention into your trade! You're such a feminized leftist wimp that you call it a "privilege" when government gives you permission to do something that the government has no business granting permissions. You're so apishly stupid that you think you're being rewarded and praised and credited when government makes you jump through its hoops. You're so government-trained that you show them appreciation when they give you something that they took away from you -- you're not bright enough to recognize that it was never theirs to take or give.

"Jeepers, you can make a LOT of money when you allow yourself to be dominated and cotrolled by government! All industries should have licensing, and even more of it, because then I would make a LOT more money! See, a LOT more money comes from government intervention, not from being a good electrician in a free market! If I submit to government and join and support them in putting obstacles in front of my competitors, I can make a LOT more money bacause I've helped to prevent others from freely competing with me!!! Isn't leftist government wonderful! It certainly is for me!!! I've made a LOT more money thanks to leftist government! It's good business to use leftist government to discourage competitors!"

J

[Jonathan]

12 hours ago, moralist said:

I just let Jonathan wear himself out. 

How can someone be so stupid as to actually believe doing something in your own best financial interests is being ruled by government? That's why he's a failure.

 

Greg

Apey not like Jonathan!

Jonathan make Apey mad.

J

[Jonathan]

11 hours ago, moralist said:

Jonathan isn't a man either... he's a male who failed to grow into a man.

And that's my totally subjective opinion.  

Greg

Apey upset.

Apey repeat Apey philosophy to make Apey feel better. Repeating philosophy soothing.

[Brant Gaede]

5 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

You're totally ruled! You're fricking owned by government! You're dominate and controlled! You're government's obedient little puppy who eager volunteers to do whatever trick they command just to get a treat from them!

 

That's what I said!!! You're submissive to government intervention into your trade! You're such a feminized leftist wimp that you call it a "privilege" when government gives you permission to do something that the government has no business granting permissions. You're so apishly stupid that you think you're being rewarded and praised and credited when government makes you jump through its hoops. You're so government-trained that you show them appreciation when they give you something that they took away from you -- you're not bright enough to recognize that it was nev theirs to take or give.

"Jeepers, you can make a LOT of money when you allow yourself to be dominated and cotrolled by government! All industries should have licensing, and even more of it, because then I would make a LOT more money! See, a LOT more money comes from government intervention, not from being a good electrician in a free market! If I submit to government and join and support them in putting obstacles in front of my competitors, I can make a LOT more money bacause I've helped to prevent others from freely competing with me!!! Isn't leftist government wonderful! It certainly is for me!!! I've made a LOT more money thanks to leftist government! It's good business to use leftist government to discourage competitors!"

J

You're trying to communicate with Greg by using logic?

--Brant

it must be your government education

[Jonathan]

2 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

You're trying to communicate with Greg by using logic?

--Brant

 

No, I'm not trying to communicate with Apey. I know that logic won't reach him. I'm just defeating his leftist, pro-government position.

J

[Max]

On Sunday May 22, 2016 at 1:09 AM, moralist said:

Might your last name be Megele, Herr Bob?.    

 

Greg

And that's complaining about government education...
 

[moralist]

7 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said:

That name should be Mengele. 

You'd know. Your description of life is grisly.

Greg

[BaalChatzaf]

6 minutes ago, moralist said:

You'd know. Your description of life is grisly.

Greg

No. My description of life is based on experimentally validated scientific  fact.  Living things  are  thermodynamic systems that operate  far from equlibrium and are capable of replication.  At this juncture  we don't know how to make living things "from scratch" using non-living material but we have a pretty good idea of the electrochemical  basis  of life.  I am not going to allow emotion,  sentiment and mysticism  get between me and the facts.  I leave that for others.

[moralist]

Jonathan, you don't know that in America you'll never taste real freedom without doing the honest productive work necessary to earn the money to buy it. That's a lesson straight out of Atlas Shrugged.

To be successful in life requires living by moral values. This fact explains why each of our two individual lives have unfolded in completely opposite directions. There's no one else for you to angrily blame (unjustly accuse) for the consequences you got of your own actions. How your own life turned out is your own fault and no one else's.

 

Greg

[moralist]

3 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said:

My description of life is based on experimentally validated scientific fact.

Abortion is grisly, Bob.

Science devoid of morality is Nazism.

Greg

[BaalChatzaf]

1 minute ago, moralist said:

Jonathan, you don't know that in America you'll never taste real freedom without doing the honest productive work necessary to earn the money to buy it. To be successful in life requires living by moral values. This fact explains why each of our two individual lives have unfolded in opposite directions. There's no one else to angrily blame (unjustly accuse) for the consequences of your own actions. How your own life turned out is your own fault.

 

Greg

As long as there is income tax  we will never know  real freedom.  The government has a prior claim on our incomes.  We get to spend what the government does not take. 

I assume, that if you have a car that you drive it is registered and has license plates on it.  How free are you to drive it around without the registration?

[BaalChatzaf]

1 hour ago, moralist said:

Abortion is grisly, Bob.

Science devoid of morality is Nazism.

Greg

And mistaking your judgments for facts is just plain stupid.  All you have is opinions.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  No one is entitled to their own facts.  If you don't like abortion then don't have one.  If a woman wants to clear her insides of something dangerous or unwanted then she will, one way or another and you do not have the standing to forbid it.  Women own their bodies AND  the contents thereof. More precisely,  women possess their bodies and the contents thereof.  So they have the first call on what to do about them. 

During the reign of the Nazis in Germany it was illegal for a pregnant Aryan women to abort her unborn fetus.  She had a legal and patriotic duty to bring forth yet another child for the Reich.  

[Jonathan]

16 minutes ago, moralist said:

Jonathan, you don't know that in America you'll never taste real freedom without doing the honest productive work necessary to earn the money to buy it. That's a lesson straight out of Atlas Shrugged.

Hahahahaha!!!

You're ridiculous.

Sorry, Apey, but, no, Atlas Shrugged was not in favor of government imposing licensing on trades so that only those who spent the required time and money jumping through government hoops would be allowed the "privilege" to work in their chosen profession performing their chosen tasks.

Atlas Shrugged was not about pretending that submitting and complying with government licensing was how one could "taste real freedom." Real freedom doesn't include thanking government for allowing you the "privilege" of "buying it."

See, that's not what "freedom" means. Being government's obedient little licensed puppy is the opposite of freedom. What you're inadvertently advocating is the leftist feminized idea that the government owns your "freedom," has the right to sell it to you, and that you're being virtuous in paying the government for it.

Heh. 

 

16 minutes ago, moralist said:

To be successful in life requires living by moral values.

Your "moral values" include expressing gratitude that government has allowed you the special "privilege" of producing and living. Silly, apish moron.

 

35 minutes ago, moralist said:

This fact explains why each of our two individual lives have unfolded in completely opposite directions.

Yeah, the direction that I took was that of logic, intelligence, creativity and originality, where the direction that you took was that of being an unintelligent, government-trained and licensed, obedient ape who is incapable of logic.

 

38 minutes ago, moralist said:

There's no one else for you to angrily blame (unjustly accuse) for the consequences you got of your own actions. How your own life turned out is your own fault and no one else's.

I'm having a great life, and haven't blamed anyone or unjustly accused them of anything. I've only stated the truth. But you don't like the truth, do you?

And where did you get the idea that I'm angry?!!! Apey, when people laugh at you and your stupidity, it doesn't mean that they are angry just because YOU feel angry about their laughter. See, laughter is fun and happy. I'm having fun. It's an enjoyable experience for me. I find it to be amusing, where you find it to be upsetting. See, what's happening is that you're confusing your feelings with mine.

J

[Max]

On Monday May 23, 2016 at 5:56 PM, PDS said:

None of these preferences make any sense with in the framework you claim to adhere to.   These preferences and disinclinations imply such a thing as "free will".    According to your "Man is Merely a Glorified Amoeba" theory, there could be no free will.    

 

That depends on how you define "free will". But whatever your definition may be, Bob's argument is sound and consistent with his framework.

 

[william.scherk]

3 hours ago, Brant Gaede, redacted said:

Because not all nice Jewish boys marry nice Jewish girls, Jews will be all but completely gone in one or two thousand years, their brainy genes gone to goydom, remembered more in myth (and Richard Feynman videos) than seeing them in the flesh.

--Brant

Clairvoyance?  Guesswork? Evidence? it's  a decent conversation starter, I guess.  Anything about The Joo, and making general claims about The Joo -- this is a fine conversation starter.

Quote

I wonder how much I just wrote is crap? 1) Some Jews can be very nasty in a way a Christian can't.

I wonder how much I just wrote is crap? 2) Also if you scratch a Jew it's Jew all the way down. Christians don't tend to go that deep.

I wonder how much I just wrote is crap? 3) I find many Mormons, for instance, to be very on the surface with their social comportments.

I wonder how much I just wrote is crap? 4) It's very hard for a Jew to be a hypocrite.

I wonder how much I just wrote is crap? 5) Hypocrites tend to be Christians. All these remarks don't gainsay the tremendous human variations taking in myriad exceptions.

I wonder how much I just wrote is crap? 6) Many go to church pretending to believe.

I wonder how much I just wrote is crap? 7) Others make themselves believe, especially Protestants who tend to be more secular than Catholics.

I wonder how much I just wrote is crap?  

Hmmm. The only way to find out if your speculations and conclusions are crap is to test each claim against reality as best we can.  If you aren't claiming any truth-value, then it isn't crap at all, just a conversation starter about offhand generalizing.  

I will pick one item, number 7,  dependent clause.   Protestants are more secular than Catholics ... no grousing about "tend to" ... since tend to be is measurable by the same means.

Before checking up on any of the claims/conversation-starters, can I ask if you believe that Protestants are more secular than Catholics?  If so, how would you measure it and put your belief to a test? 

More importantly, having started a conversation, are you prepared to sustain it?

Edited May 24, 2016 by william.scherk
Spelking

[PDS]

1 hour ago, Max said:

That depends on how you define "free will". But whatever your definition may be, Bob's argument is sound and consistent with his framework.

 

Max:  are you certain believes in free will?   I don't think we have a clear statement from him on this quite yet. 

[BaalChatzaf]

Just now, PDS said:

Max:  are you certain believes in free will?   I don't think we have a clear statement from him on this quite yet. 

The processes of your body (that includes the brain, nervous system and glands)  are not deterministic  at the subatomic level.  A great deal of what happens not only to us but in the cosmos  was not pinned down and programmed  at the instant of the Big Bang.  Some things do happen by chance. As long as that is the case one must allow for Free (in t he sense of non-deterministic) Will.