9thdoctor Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 21 hours ago, George H. Smith said: But his general point about cheering, in effect, upon learning of the deaths of evil people is quite sound. I agree. 18 hours ago, KorbenDallas said: To what degree of "evil" does one have to be to warrant cheering for their death? I thought Objectivism placed a higher value on human life than this. I thought it was reserved for only the truly evil, or "evul". Osama Bin Laden was way past the cutoff point. Dylann Roof was beaten up in jail recently, and if it had been fatal, I'd rank him highly (or is it lowly?) enough. John Geoghan died that way, and even though he didn't kill anyone I'd put him on the bad list. Looking for a borderline case? Can't think of a good one off-hand. Probably belongs in a new thread, if anyone wants to come up with criteria and debate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 19 minutes ago, 9thdoctor said: I agree. Osama Bin Laden was way past the cutoff point. Dylann Roof was beaten up in jail recently, and if it had been fatal, I'd rank him highly (or is it lowly?) enough. John Geoghan died that way, and even though he didn't kill anyone I'd put him on the bad list. Looking for a borderline case? Can't think of a good one off-hand. Probably belongs in a new thread, if anyone wants to come up with criteria and debate it. When "Father" Geoghan died by having a sock stuffed down his throat (how appropriate!) I did not cheer, but I felt that Justice had been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George H. Smith Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 On 8/30/2016 at 0:18 AM, KorbenDallas said: To what degree of "evil" does one have to be to warrant cheering for their death? I thought Objectivism placed a higher value on human life than this. I thought it was reserved for only the truly evil, or "evul". I just heard on the news that a high-ranking member of ISIS, Al-Adnani, may have been killed. If this is true, then how should we respond to his death? Should we reflect that he was a human being who probably had some admirable characteristics? Or should we respond with a lively round of Bronx cheers? I prefer the latter. As Murray Rothbard used to say: "Hitler loved cats. Who cares?" As for the degree of evil necessary before we cheer the death of a person, there is obviously no pat answer to this question. It depends on the evaluator and the person he is evaluating. In many cases, as with politicians, I may not cheer their deaths, but nor will I be in the least sorry to see them go. Nor will I pretend to feel sorrow for the deaths of people who meant nothing to me. Everyone dies. And death does not change what a person did during his life. Death is not an accomplishment that should change what we thought of a person when he was alive. If both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump were to die tomorrow of natural causes, the world would be a better place. Ghs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 22 minutes ago, George H. Smith said: If both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump were to die tomorrow of natural causes, the world would be a better place. George, Why stop there? Why not include Obama and his entire administration, most all the Bushes and the rest of the Clintons, both houses of Congress, all judges, and two-thirds if not more of all military and law enforcement commanders? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 The Great Dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George H. Smith Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 29 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: George, Why stop there? Why not include Obama and his entire administration, most all the Bushes and the rest of the Clintons, both houses of Congress, all judges, and two-thirds if not more of all military and law enforcement commanders? Michael Fine with me. Ghs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 If you actually kill someone--it's another ball game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KorbenDallas Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 13 hours ago, George H. Smith said: I just heard on the news that a high-ranking member of ISIS, Al-Adnani, may have been killed. If this is true, then how should we respond to his death? Should we reflect that he was a human being who probably had some admirable characteristics? Or should we respond with a lively round of Bronx cheers? I prefer the latter. I'd cheer for Al-Adnani, as I did for Saddam and Bin Laden. 13 hours ago, George H. Smith said: As for the degree of evil necessary before we cheer the death of a person, there is obviously no pat answer to this question. It depends on the evaluator and the person he is evaluating. In many cases, as with politicians, I may not cheer their deaths, but nor will I be in the least sorry to see them go. Nor will I pretend to feel sorrow for the deaths of people who meant nothing to me. Everyone dies. And death does not change what a person did during his life. Death is not an accomplishment that should change what we thought of a person when he was alive. I think cheering for someone's death is a serious moral response and needs to be explored more than Peikoff's treatment of it. For example with the response, was the person cheering secretly wishing for that person's natural death? Was the person cheering not secretly wishing, but upon the news cheered like they had wished for it all along? Was the person cheering not secretly wishing, but upon the news simply thought the world wouldn't be affected by them any longer? Also, what kind of natural death did that person experience, and did that warrant cheering? Cancer? Suffering? Were they in terror? Was it peaceful? Additionally, personal and/or political justice needs to be taken into account: if a person isn't personally affected by an evil person's injustice I think it should take some serious offenses to cheer politically. For the immediate example, Peikoff shouldn't have cheered for the Brandens, it was wicked and sadist that he did---unless he has was personally affected by them in ways I don't know about but this seems doubtful. He had no regard for how they died, and this tells me he doesn't value human life as much as he says he does as an Objectivist. And for note, I wouldn't cheer Peikoff's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jts Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 6 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: George, Why stop there? Why not include Obama and his entire administration, most all the Bushes and the rest of the Clintons, both houses of Congress, all judges, and two-thirds if not more of all military and law enforcement commanders? Michael Politicians are the lowest form of life walking on 2 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Bissell Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 On 12/3/2014 at 7:54 PM, Robert Campbell said: I will miss him. The Journal of Ayn Rand Studies will be doing a special issue on Nathaniel Branden and his contributions, to Objectivism and to the wider world. My only regret is that we couldn't have it ready when Nathaniel was there to appreciate it. Robert Campbell That special issue will be published and available in just a few short weeks - sometime in December. It will be a double issue of the Journal of Ayn Rand Studies, and it will also be available in Kindle format. Further details and ordering information will be posted soon. Stay tuned! REB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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