# Is Using Someone's Reason Against Them Fraud?

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I was in a pub once and witnessed two "strangers" setting up a con game. The game is played with 15 coins.

The rules of the game are you can go first or I can go first. You may take 1,2 or 3 coins from the pile at one time. Then the opponent can do the same. The person that is left with one coin on the table is the loser. I say back and watched the strangers playing for money apparently winning and losing at random with either one or the other getting mad, doubling down etc.

I was to be the mark.

So I joined in already knowing the "hidden" rules to the game. I feigned the same outrage. I ended up taking about 400 bucks out of the exchange.

After I collected my winnings I looked at them square in the eye and said " 2,6 and 10" they knew I conned the cons.

If you get to start first you take 2 and that guarantees you win. They then take whatever lets say 1. So you then take 3. (=6) they take 2

You take 2(=10) they take 1 you take 3 leaving the last coin on the table and winning the game.

I once knew a pool player-hustler who played an on-the-road nine-ball game in a rather small poolroom and won and won and won enough so a spectator told him on the side he was going to be rolled* when he left the room.The player put his expensive cue on the table and announced he was going to the bathroom where he exited by crawling out the window leaving his cue behind.

So, Jules, how did you get out of there?

--Brant

*get the shit beat out of him

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No offense taken. Whether you meant me specifically or not, the fact remains that I probably don't know enough about math. There's lots of things I don't know enough about. If I took offense everytime this point became clear to me, I'd spend a whole lot of time offended.

What I'm suggesting is that you attempt to find a balance between the mathematical concepts that make sense to you, and the very real fact that those concepts will likely never, on their own, give you an understanding of human behavior. It's perfectly okay for numbers to be your foundation, but you're going to need to integrate some other stuff, too.

For what it's worth, this thread has provided significant insight into how you think, and I'll say again that I've been fascinated and amazed. You have a great mind. If nothing else, hopefully some of us here in the OL community will know better in the future the best way to interact and engage with you.

I don't expect them to. Even if I had a perfect mathematical model of human behavior, it would be so complicated that it would be completely impractical to actually use it. My point is that it is possible to use math in very simplified and idealized situations so that we can gain insights for when things get messy. I'm saying this because, in your first post, you seemed to be saying that it is impossible to think about human behavior mathematically.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we are actually now mostly in agreement. That is, we agree that it is impractical to think about human behavior mathematically exclusively. I believe that's what several of us were attempting to point out to you early in the thread, but you seemed resistant to that and only arrived at that conclusion later after the math got messy. Which is fine. It's all good. The difference between us is that for me, math gets messy a whole lot quicker than it does for you.

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Second degree blackbelt trained not for defense(lol proactive self defense?) but to inflict the maximum damage with the least effort. In my prime I did not consider it a fair fight unless there were at least 4 against me. I trained 4hours/day 6 days a week for years.

Nothing actually happened though as predators often are adept at sensing fear/weakness of which I have none.

Yes I did a lot of stupid shit in my youth. Never was allowed to join the military when I was 18 for the stupid assed reason of being colorblind.

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Second degree blackbelt trained not for defense(lol proactive self defense?) but to inflict the maximum damage with the least effort. In my prime I did not consider it a fair fight unless there were at least 4 against me. I trained 4hours/day 6 days a week for years.

Nothing actually happened though as predators often are adept at sensing fear/weakness of which I have none.

Yes I did a lot of stupid shit in my youth. Never was allowed to join the military when I was 18 for the stupid assed reason of being colorblind.

How about one against you 10 feet out of your reach armed with a load cocked hand-gun? Think you could dodge all the bullets?

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Second degree blackbelt trained not for defense(lol proactive self defense?) but to inflict the maximum damage with the least effort. In my prime I did not consider it a fair fight unless there were at least 4 against me. I trained 4hours/day 6 days a week for years.

Nothing actually happened though as predators often are adept at sensing fear/weakness of which I have none.

Yes I did a lot of stupid shit in my youth. Never was allowed to join the military when I was 18 for the stupid assed reason of being colorblind.

How about one against you 10 feet out of your reach armed with a load cocked hand-gun? Think you could dodge all the bullets?

Ba'al Chatzaf

Greg

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I made the mistake when I was twelve (12) of standing up and yelling, "Stop, or I'll shoot!' Had been watching too many police TV series in the late '50's.

Caused me to get "nicked" in the forearm by folks that did not have rules. Shot both of them in the legs and created quite a problem for my father. Thankfully, both were wanted and since he was an NYFD Arson Investigator, everything "went away."

A...

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There are guns but not many in Canada. People mostly get killed with knives or bludgeoned to death. However I think there are more murders in Detroit in a week than in Canada for the entire year..

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Bob I want one.

Brant got any kickin around?

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Grossly inferior to a standard 12 guage pump tactical shotgun. If you're in a situation where you need one of these, you are going to die.

--Brant

doesn't matter if you kill a few yourself