Decline of Detroit - Ayn Rand's "Starnesville Incident"?

[Jerry Biggers]

Link to an article in the London Telegraph, comparing Ayn Rand's depiction of Starnesville and Detroits economic collapse. Not identical, but some interesting paralells.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100227375/obamanomics-is-turning-america-into-detroit-ayn-rands-starnesville-come-to-life/

[Darrell Hougen]

There are still parts of the country that are growing, so I hope we will escape the fate of Detroit.

Darrell

[caroljane]

Poor Detroit!

I think the Sabres donate some players to them in a gesture of city solidarity. Then Detroit would have real Buffalo Wings.

[Dglgmut]

It's pretty crucial that Detroit not get bailed out or the rest of the country may soon follow.

[BaalChatzaf]

Detroit is going back to a wilderness state. Scary, isn't it? Who would of thought that could happen in America?

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Jerry Biggers]

Detroit is going back to a wilderness state. Scary, isn't it? Who would of thought that could happen in America?

Ba'al Chatzaf

I think that there was a novelist who had discussed the causes of America's economic decline, including the auto industry, in an obscure, unremembered novel.

Anyway, she was a novelist, not a real Social(ist) Thinker, like John Kenneth Galbraith...

Dglgmut:

We taxpayers already bailed-out Chrysler in the late 1970s. Lee Iacocca came in, reinvigorated the car manufacturer by transferring much of its industry to Chrysler plants in Canada, and saved Chrysler turning it into the number one auto manufacturer it is today. O.K., so poor Chrysler, it back to the wall by greedy foreign car makers, needed yet another bail-out.

If the rest of the country bail-out Detroit (and plenty of near-bankrupt states and municipalities are eager to get in line), who will be left to bail them out? But this is an evil selfish question. As Mr.Thompson said, we must all sacrifice for the Greater Good

.

[Dglgmut]

Here's Peter Schiff's video about it from a couple days ago (including a clip of Obama boasting).

[Jerry Biggers]

Wow! It's a LOT worse than I thought.

I am not familiar with Peter Schiff ,but he presents a pretty damning indictment of Detroit!

Actually, Schiff's presentation is a lot better than Stossel's "Special" on Fox, last night.

[Darrell Hougen]

At this rate, Detroit will be a ghost town before long. It's hard to imagine a major U.S. city becoming a ghost town. I could imagine the federal government stepping in and bailing it out. But, as Schiff says, that will open the spigot to every state, city, and town being backed by the Feds. Then, the entire country could turn into a ghost country.

Darrell

[Selene]

Hmm...

One would almost think that it is beginning to look like that crazy ladies novel that was written in 1957...

Nah, nothing to see here, move on Johnny...get off the corner and get back to being a subservient producer, so that the parasites can survive for another year, or so.

[Jerry Biggers]

In my comment above, I did not mention the one really interesting segment of the Stossel show.. He interviews a developer by the name of Rod Lockwood, who is heading a group investers and developers that wants to buy or lease a huge island, Belle Isle, between Detroit and Windsor, Canada. Their plan, if it was accepted by Detroit and Michigan authorities (highly unlikely, in my uninformed view), is to create a tax-free, laissez faire zone (Lockwood compares what he has in mind to the highly industrialized and economically successful city-state, modern Singapore, as an example of what he has in mind).

Stossel played an excerpt from Stephen Colbert's show where he sarcastically mocks his strawman distortion of Lockwood's idea, referring to it as "an Objectivist orgasm" (or words to that effect). Stossel then asked if he (Lockwood) was an Objectivist, to which he said yes. Lockwood has a book out describing his proposed transformation of Belle Isle. See this link for more information:

http://www.mackinac.org/18932

[BaalChatzaf]

In my comment above, I did not mention the one really interesting segment of the Stossel show.. He interviews a developer by the name of Rod Lockwood, who is heading a group investers and developers that wants to buy or lease a huge island, Belle Isle, between Detroit and Windsor, Canada. Their plan, if it was accepted by Detroit and Michigan authorities (highly unlikely, in my uninformed view), is to create a tax-free, laissez faire zone (Lockwood compares what he has in mind to the highly industrialized and economically successful city-state, modern Singapore, as an example of what he has in mind).

Stossel played an excerpt from Stephen Colbert's show where he sarcastically mocks his strawman distortion of Lockwood's idea, referring to it as "an Objectivist orgasm" (or words to that effect). Stossel then asked if he (Lockwood) was an Objectivist, to which he said yes. Lockwood has a book out describing his proposed transformation of Belle Isle. See this link for more information:

http://www.mackinac.org/18932

The idea of a tax free, mostly free enterprise zone in the U.S. is a reproach to every governmental policy and principle since the New Deal.

It does not have a hope of being approved. If it were approved it would immediately become the real life Galt's Gulch.

We cannot have every productive person in the U.S. defect, can we?

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Jerry Biggers]

Here is the link to the Amazon page discussing the book. It is apparently available as a Kindle download or paperback. Already some interesting comments.

Also, I misquoted Stephen Colbert's comment. He did not say it sounds lake an "Objectivist orgasm." Rather, an Objectivist "wet dream."

Actually, I'm surprised the proposal got this far. The likelihood that Detroit will sell Belle Isle to him is,...zero..

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1300621923/ref=rdr_ext_sb_ti_hist_1#_

[Darrell Hougen]

Just an update. The judge in the bankruptcy filing has named a mediator. He is a member of the Federalist society. However, I don't think that his libertarian leanings will have much effect. As a mediator, all he can really do is shuttle between the groups trying to broker a deal and advising them on the law.

[Selene]

Just an update. The judge in the bankruptcy filing has named a mediator. He is a member of the Federalist society. However, I don't think that his libertarian leanings will have much effect. As a mediator, all he can really do is shuttle between the groups trying to broker a deal and advising them on the law.

Darrell:

That is not true. A mediator has much more subtle power than you my realize.

A...

[Brant Gaede]

Just an update. The judge in the bankruptcy filing has named a mediator. He is a member of the Federalist society. However, I don't think that his libertarian leanings will have much effect. As a mediator, all he can really do is shuttle between the groups trying to broker a deal and advising them on the law.

Darrell:

That is not true. A mediator has much more subtle power than you m[a]y realize.

A...

The mediator has more de facto power than the judge who would probably be loath to over-rule the situation after giving him a job to do, especially, as is the likely case, if they had known each other and worked together previously. The judge would not be happy if the opposing parties didn't make things happen and the mediator would be embarrassed. His "subtle" power is a club in the closet behind him--the "club" is the judge is the court.

--Brant

oh, and the mediator is another judge: put that in your pan and fry it--good luck with that (the feds have completely taken over, BTW)

[Selene]

No need to have a gun in Detroit...

There is one Democrat, State Senator Gretchen Whitmer, who, not realizing what political party she is a member of, actually argued something mostly sensible: “If you want people to live in the city, and not just visit to go to games, you have to invest in schools, in having the police to respond to calls.” (Remember, it takes an average of about an hour for police to respond to emergency calls.) “There are so many investments that should trump a sports stadium.”

http://politicaloutcast.com/2013/07/444-million-hockey-stadium-to-be-built-in-bankrupt-detroit/

[caroljane]

Right now I feel like police everywhere should take longer than an hour , in fact it might be safer if they never showed up at all.

Better to spend the money on hockey.

In addition to the killing here recently, the 22 officers plus EMTs managed to trample all over the crime scene, kick potential evidence out of the way, and oh yes, taser the suspect after he had been shot nine times and was apparently dead. Nobody bothered to cordon off the witnesses/spectators who were getting a real eyeful.The cops were solely concerned with the "one of their own" who looked like he might get in trouble.

[Dglgmut]

I love it.

In the Zimmerman case it's, "He should have waited for the police!"

When the police screw up, "Fuck the police!"

It is tough to commit to anything, though, and even tougher to shut up about what you're not committed to.

[caroljane]

FYI , I consider that Zimmerman was considering himself as the police in that situation.

It was the guns that killed Trayvon and Sammy, and neither Zimmerman nor Forcillo should have had one.

[BaalChatzaf]

FYI , I consider that Zimmerman was considering himself as the police in that situation.

It was the guns that killed Trayvon and Sammy, and neither Zimmerman nor Forcillo should have had one.

Saws don't cut wood. Carpenters cut wood.

[Dglgmut]

It was the guns that killed Trayvon and Sammy, and neither Zimmerman nor Forcillo should have had one.

That's like saying anyone who's had their arm cut off by a snow-blower "shouldn't have had one". Or anyone who's caused a car accident shouldn't have had a car.

What you want is an unrealistic level of control over reality... and it shows throughout your politics.

What can be controlled are incentives for people to behave ethically. That means this cop should be charged with at least manslaughter, to make sure police are careful, for their own sake, not to go overboard when dealing with potentially dangerous suspects.

[caroljane]

FYI , I consider that Zimmerman was considering himself as the police in that situation.

It was the guns that killed Trayvon and Sammy, and neither Zimmerman nor Forcillo should have had one.

Saws don't cut wood. Carpenters cut wood.

People are not wood.

[Selene]

FYI , I consider that Zimmerman was considering himself as the police in that situation.

It was the guns that killed Trayvon and Sammy, and neither Zimmerman nor Forcillo should have had one.

Saws don't cut wood. Carpenters cut wood.

People are not wood.

Carol:

You know better than to make a specious counter argument.

His comparison/analogy is excellent.

A...

[Brant Gaede]

FYI , I consider that Zimmerman was considering himself as the police in that situation.

It was the guns that killed Trayvon and Sammy, and neither Zimmerman nor Forcillo should have had one.

Should Brant Gaede have a gun? Carol snaps her fingers and Brant's gun(s) disappear. Brant no longer has any guns. Brant is home invaded. Brant kills three home invaders with his samurai sword. Should Brant have a samurai sword? Carol snaps her fingers and the samurai sword disappears.

Uh, Carol, all I have left now are steak knives. Would you kindly mind your own business?

--Brant

blood luster