Selene Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Let's see...This scumbag has appointed a Chancellor of Education for the last twelve [12] years.This scumbag has "invested" approximately $18,000 to $21, 0000 dollars per pupil per year and the results are...80% of the graduates of the New York City School System are...ta da...!ILLITERATE!!Way to go Nanny! But they are slimmer than the dropouts!A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jts Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 How illiterate do they need to be to qualify as illiterate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 How illiterate do they need to be to qualify as illiterate?Jerry:Is your question an attempt at being clever? If so, you are way above your pay grade.What part of the concept of "illiterate" is confusing you?A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jts Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 How illiterate do they need to be to qualify as illiterate?Jerry:Is your question an attempt at being clever? If so, you are way above your pay grade.What part of the concept of "illiterate" is confusing you?A...Dictionary definition:"having little or no education; especially : unable to read or write <an illiterate population>"Do you mean 80% of those who graduate from grade 12 can't read and write? Can't as in zero ability? Obviously not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I will take jts's side here. Those "graduates" all have cellphones on which they text and read messages. It is not my idea of literacy but it is not illiteracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 I will take jts's side here. Those "graduates" all have cellphones on which they text and read messages. It is not my idea of literacy but it is not illiteracy.Frankly, that argument is absurd Carol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I will take jts's side here. Those "graduates" all have cellphones on which they text and read messages. It is not my idea of literacy but it is not illiteracy.Frankly, that argument is absurd Carol...Disprove it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 nannies are generally benevolent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 First of all, I have the status quo regarding the literacy of NY City High School graduates based on the community college data from the study.Therefore, you need to disprove the results of the study, Basic rules of argument, dear.Secondly, your assertion that "nannies are generally benevolent" has some serious problems in light of the Manhattan "nanny" who killed two (2) of her charges. However, generally, I would agree with you.Therefore, I will amend my lead to read...Fascist Political Scumbag Billionaire Blomberg's Exceptional Success With the Educational System of New York City still results in the study concluding that 80% of the graduates are illiterate...A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I am shocked///shockd!! That you rely on one study from a community college yet, to prove your argument/Show me that all those hapless diploma holders have been thrust out onto the mean streets unable to read or write. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 Smokeand Shall we try an argument?Nite nite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dldelancey Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Adam, I didn't see a link to your source in your posts. Is this the study you're refering to? http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/03/07/officials-most-nyc-high-school-grads-need-remedial-help-before-entering-cuny-community-colleges/My impression from this article is that the study includes only those students who enrolled the 2-year program at this college. It doesn't say how many students that includes. If so, those results are skewed, for obvious reasons. It doesn't take into account any of the students who enrolled in 4-year programs at this college or any other.The need to define what is meant by illiterate in this context is a valid point. In this case, they probably mean something along the lines of capable of passing a college level credit course. There are lots of people in this country who can read and write but would have difficulty with this, especially in math, but who manage their daily lives, and those of their families, quite well.Don't get me wrong. I am no fan of the public school system nor of Bloomberg. I think public education fails our children on a daily basis. I just don't think this particular study or its implications are as much in support of this position as you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 Adam, I didn't see a link to your source in your posts. Is this the study you're refering to? http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/03/07/officials-most-nyc-high-school-grads-need-remedial-help-before-entering-cuny-community-colleges/My impression from this article is that the study includes only those students who enrolled the 2-year program at this college. It doesn't say how many students that includes. If so, those results are skewed, for obvious reasons. It doesn't take into account any of the students who enrolled in 4-year programs at this college or any other.Thank you Deanna:I should never have launched this thread without checking the accuracy of the statement that was voiced on some of the radio stations that I listen too.The information that was mentioned confirmed my own personal experience from way back when I was teaching at Queens college in the NY City University System. I started teaching when I was twenty (20). I taught for five (5) years. In my second year, the system moved to open enrollment which flooded the system with high school graduates who were barely "ept" enough to operate a cash register, let alone take my advanced speech writing course.I made the same assumption with this report without tracking down the link. A...My error and thanks for the correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dldelancey Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 There are some definite points to be made here.1. There may very well be a disturbing statistic here. I did a little more reading on this topic last night, and it seems this study included students who in enrolled in 2-year programs at any of the SUNY campuses. How many campuses is that? How many students does that include? What percentage of total incoming 2-year students does that account for? Were these very recent high school graduates? 80% of any number is high, and one would think that a recent high school graduate would not need remediation right off the bat upon entering community college. I dunno. Maybe it's not a big deal, and maybe it is. We can't really know that because we don't have enough information and now that the journalistic zeal to sensationalize the statistic has made it so easy to wave this away, we'll probably never get that information.2. If a recent high school graduate requires remediation upon entering community college, is that student really "college material?" Adam experienced an influx of ill-prepared students when his college went to open enrollment. (My assumption is that this means admittance requirements were dropped.) This study could indicate (but we can't really be sure - see 1 above) that SUNY has an influx of ill-prepared students. I was just having a conversation last week with a coworker about how college educations are a dime a dozen these days. When I was college-aged, it was not a given that everyone went to college. Now it is. Why? Does every single person in the country actually need a college education? 3. What does it really mean to be illiterate? MSK talks about problems of identity a lot, and this is another one. This study implies that to be illiterate means that you aren't prepared for a college level course of study. Meh, so what? Lots of people aren't. I worked with literacy programs for a number of years in Memphis and on the Gulf Coast. Every single person I tutored was considered illiterate. One was a Ph.D from Iran who spoke English quite well, but couldn't read it or write it. One was a 70-year-old man who had just sold his successful trucking business for a bucketload of money, had put his 4 children and all of their children through college, but couldn't read a bedtime story to his shiny new first great-grandchild. (He cried when he was able to read Goodnight Moon.) One was a young brilliant published poet who read voraciously but sucked really bad at math. There are many faces of illiteracy. Illiterate does not always equate to incapable. Edited to add: I also tutored a lot of people who fit the profile of what most people consider illiterate. A mother who sometimes had difficulty buying groceries because she couldn't read labels, and a young man who lost his job because his employer implemented a written safety test requirement, for instance. Many were recent high school graduates. That's the statistic that needs to be sensationalized, and not because they aren't prepared for a college level course of study, but because they aren't prepared for life.Sorry, this happens to be a soapbox topic for me. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 Keep soapboxing Deanna.This is also an important issue to me also. When I get some time later, or tomorrow.Thanks for the link.A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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