Selene Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Ahh, so when the state coerces your child into a state classroom because home schooling has been outlawed, like in Germany, all upstanding righteous folks should stand up and refuse to compromise to coercion...correct?I have more examples Angela...taxation will be next.All laws are coercive, so to speak. But in a democratic society, one is free to protest against laws. In several cases, laws have been changed as result of protests, especially if the time was ripe for change.Ah, OK so the individual being raped has the right to protest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jts Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 "The dose makes the poison". (Paracelsus) .I don't believe. I am not impressed by the fact that the rest of the world believes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Also bear in mind that Rand used her compromise example to polarize right versus wrong.Rand: "There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil." (end quote)"Right" versus "wrong" are epistemological categories, but what is the function of the term 'evil' here? This is one of the frequent instances where Rand suddenly switches from epistemology to morality, the issue being no longer 'wrong' versus 'right', but 'morally wrong' versus 'morally right'.Truth morphs into 'moral truth' (= the moral sytem worked out in her philosophy).No: no morphing and switching involved - one integrated whole.Merely applying logic, does not alone lead one to a rational morality.You have to begin at what IS : Man's - and Nature's - essential identity,properties and attributes. Metaphysics.Then:metaphysics + epistemology = morality (-> rights).or simply,The truth of existence + truth in thought = truth in action and being.Disagree with the whole package if you want, but if you start in the middle - with some epistemology, and then mix in traditional, normative ethics - you won't interpret Objectivism correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 You have to begin at what IS : Man's - and Nature's - essential identity,What makes you think all humans have the same nature? There is a degree of genetic variation among humans and epigenetic factors make even more differences. Which is why two identical twins (natural clones) do not turn out the same.Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 You have to begin at what IS : Man's - and Nature's - essential identity,What makes you think all humans have the same nature? There is a degree of genetic variation among humans and epigenetic factors make even more differences. Which is why two identical twins (natural clones) do not turn out the same.Ba'al ChatzafBa'al,Not specific "humans" - individuals - but the genus 'Man'. Man's unifying,essential, properties.One has to dig deeper, take the concept higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Ahh, so when the state coerces your child into a state classroom because home schooling has been outlawed, like in Germany, all upstanding righteous folks should stand up and refuse to compromise to coercion...correct?I have more examples Angela...taxation will be next.All laws are coercive, so to speak. But in a democratic society, one is free to protest against laws. In several cases, laws have been changed as result of protests, especially if the time was ripe for change.Ah, OK so the individual being raped has the right to protest?The issue was about the right to protest against a law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 "The dose makes the poison". (Paracelsus) .I don't believe. I am not impressed by the fact that the rest of the world believes it.I think you do agree but, for whatever reason, like to play devil's advocate. Correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jts Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 "The dose makes the poison". (Paracelsus) .I don't believe. I am not impressed by the fact that the rest of the world believes it.I think you do agree but, for whatever reason, like to play devil's advocate. Correct?Wrong.The reason why people think the dose makes the poison probably is that they don't count anything as a poison if the body does not go into emergency mode against it. I count it as a poison even if the dose is so small that the body does not go into emergency mode.Homework assignment:Look up 'poison'. Read everything about poison. There are enough paragraphs with 'poison' to keep you out of mischief for a long time.http://jtstory.onlinewebshop.net/lexicon-nh/nh_lexicon.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Homework assignment:Look up 'poison'. Read everything about poison. There are enough paragraphs with 'poison' to keep you out of mischief for a long time.http://jtstory.onlin...nh_lexicon.htmlJerry:How do you search that term on your link?Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Never mind Jerry...I figured it out.Great website by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 FYI:Here is the link for The Hydropathic Encyclopedia: A System of Hydropathy and Hygiene, in Eight Chapters/Parts? (1851) by Russell Thatcher Thrall.http://archive.org/details/hydropathicency00tralgoog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Ba'al,Not specific "humans" - individuals - but the genus 'Man'.Man's unifying,essential, properties.One has to dig deeper, take the concept higher.I pay attention to the nuts and bolts. Taking the concept higher means taking it further away from the biological realities. Scientists pay attention to facts which is why what they do eventually has a cash value, to wit the useful applications. Philosophers produce hot air. Man is a concept. Humans are sticky and gooey. Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jts Posted May 26, 2012 Author Share Posted May 26, 2012 What makes you think all humans have the same nature? There is a degree of genetic variation among humans and epigenetic factors make even more differences. Which is why two identical twins (natural clones) do not turn out the same.Ba'al ChatzafDo you really have difficulty differentiating between me and humans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Do you really have difficulty differentiating between me and humans?Not at all. I see mostly differences between humans.You have to understand my situation. I was in my forties when I finally learned how to pass for human without too much difficulty. When I read about Ayn Rand going on and on and on about Man qua Man I think to myself, she never met an Aspie in her life. Not even L.P. is a close enough approximation. Or Alan Greenspan. Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Compromise to a bulimic girl is when she tells people, yes, she is too skinny and will do something about it just to get them to shut up.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Merely applying logic, does not alone lead one to a rational morality.ITA.You have to begin at what IS : Man's - and Nature's - essential identity,properties and attributes. Metaphysics.But that's already when things get difficult in ethics: for "man's nature" also has characteristics which one cannot call benevolent.For example, we have the evolutioary equipment to fight (and not always for our mere self-defense). The impulse to fight also works for pushing rivals ouf our own tribe out of the way. If for example, our stone age ancestors had patiently waited until getting their share of meat, they would not have got any at all.Imo the questons for a rational ethics is: which elements of 'man's nature' can productively be built into this system of ethics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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