A brief Hello

[mrorville1]

(NOTE FROM MSK on June 4, 2021: The personal information of this poster has been omitted in this thread by request. Anyone addressing him from here on out should use the name mrorville1.)

 

Hello, My name is [omitted], I am age 15 and my current residence is [omitted],and I have an IQ of 132. I like to consider myself a pre-objectionist. I atually got interested in the ideology through a game called Bioshock. It interested me enough to go online and see its ideology and found out it was based on Objectivism by Ayn Ran. Now I am currently reading Atlas Shrugged(from my poit of view it is a very good book and told in a very good way). But I wish to ask you something. What exactly is objectionism? I understand the overview but could I have a description of what it is?It would help me a lot (I am trying to convert my Anarcho-Communist friend).

[Guyau]

Hello, [omitted]. Welcome to Objectivist Living.

I gather you know that Objectivism is the philosophy of Ayn Rand. You will be finding the main parts of the philosophy in your book Atlas Shrugged. Rand once summarized the philosophy this way:

Quote

My philosophy, Objectivism, holds that:

Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man’s feelings, wishes, hopes or fears.

Reason (the faculty which identifies and integrates the material provided by man’s senses) is man’s only means of perceiving reality, his only source of knowledge, his only guide to action, and his basic means of survival.

Man—every man—is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life.

The ideal political-economic system is laissez-faire capitalism. It is a system where men deal with one another, not as victims and executioners, nor as masters and slaves, but as traders, by free, voluntary exchange to mutual benefit. It is a system where no man may obtain any values from others by resorting to physical force, and no man may initiate the use of physical force against others. The government acts only as a policeman that protects man’s rights; it uses physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use, such as criminals or foreign invaders. In a system of full capitalism, there should be (but, historically, has not yet been) a complete separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church.

I believe the overview of Rand’s philosophy to which you referred is the one here at OL, written by Will Thomas, which includes some links to subdivisions of the philosophy. I would like to point you to another, fairly elaborate, overview of the philosophy here.

But mostly I hope you have a lot of fun with your book.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PS

How old is your “anarcho-communist” friend? Looking to your sketch of his take below, would you say that he actually has known some people who regard themselves as Objectivist? Or do you think he mostly is imagining what such people would be like?

I was a socialist when I was in high school. It seemed to me that private property allowed people to be selfish, which I thought was wrong. Actually, come to think of it, back then, I had never in my entire life heard from anyone that it was good to love yourself. You just always heard that being selfish was wrong. Rand’s writings persuaded me otherwise when I got to college. She argued that there was a kind of selfishness that was good. Just by getting that new concept, I rejected my socialism. I have refined my views since those years, more than forty years ago, as I learned more about economics, ethical theories, and law. It is fun to learn and grow intellectually and not stop.

I would recommend---and perhaps you are this way naturally anyway---that you keep an open ear to what your friend’s reasons are for his own positive position, not just to what he says against yours. (What are the good things he thinks will result from anarcho-communism?) That is an additional way in which to understand him. Also, I suggest that converting your friend or him converting you is not so important as the opportunity to understand each other and further develop your own understanding of the topics themselves.

[mrorville1]

On 2/27/2012 at 8:24 PM, Stephen Boydstun said:

Hello, [omitted]. Welcome to Objectivist Living.

I gather you know that Objectivism is the philosophy of Ayn Rand. You will be finding the main parts of the philosophy in your book Atlas Shrugged. Rand once summarized the philosophy this way:

Quote

My philosophy, Objectivism, holds that:

Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man’s feelings, wishes, hopes or fears.

Reason (the faculty which identifies and integrates the material provided by man’s senses) is man’s only means of perceiving reality, his only source of knowledge, his only guide to action, and his basic means of survival.

Man—every man—is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life.

The ideal political-economic system is laissez-faire capitalism. It is a system where men deal with one another, not as victims and executioners, nor as masters and slaves, but as traders, by free, voluntary exchange to mutual benefit. It is a system where no man may obtain any values from others by resorting to physical force, and no man may initiate the use of physical force against others. The government acts only as a policeman that protects man’s rights; it uses physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use, such as criminals or foreign invaders. In a system of full capitalism, there should be (but, historically, has not yet been) a complete separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church.

I believe the overview of Rand’s philosophy to which you referred is the one here at OL, written by Will Thomas, which includes some links to subdivisions of the philosophy. I would like to point you to another, fairly elaborate, overview of the philosophy here.

But mostly I hope you have a lot of fun with your book.

I thank you for your help. You have already helped me alot.

What do you say to these arguements?

Rand's philosophies, basically coming to the conclusion that any practical implementation of Randism would inevitably devolve into anarchy. Ryan tried to set up Galt's gulch with all its intended advantages, all he got instead were imperfect human beings who played each other and ended up killing each other. Rand is a lot like Marx, living in pie in the sky fantasy land, that doesn't take into account that actual human beings have to run things.

and

But I'm still going to personally take it as an indictment of Objectivism purely on the grounds of my own personal dislike of the philosophy. I thought Rand had some interesting ideas until I realized that Objectivism essentially gives people an excuse to act like jerks and then pass it off as "I don't expect an unenlightened plebe like you to understand or approve of my more advanced stature."

I'm sure that not all people that embrace Objectivism are jerks but in my personal experience, I never encountered an Objectivist who wasn't mean, arrogant, condescending and answered any criticism of behavior with "You're not advanced enough to understand."

Would help alot more.

[Selene]

[omitted]:

Welcome to OL.

I am assuming Ryan is your "anarcho-communist" friend...correct?

How does he/she define "anarcho-communism?"

An "...an unenlightened plebe like you..." Is this reference to you because you are in a private military school? Or, is this reference to the Bioshock game?

Adam

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

[omitted],

Welcome to OL.

I could not give you a better introduction to the spirit of the site than what Stephen did. So basically what he said. And, yes, check out other sites like ARI for understanding Objectivism, by all means. You have a precious mind and you are the one who needs to use it.

(Notice that Adam followed in the same spirit.)

As to your arguments, the central core I detect is that the critics think that Objectivism equals hedonism or kindergarten-like selfishness. Not true. The morality focuses on using and developing your reasoning mind, not blindly giving in to your urges. I'm sure this will become clear and far more detailed as you grow familiar with the literature and interact with folks.

The charge that all Objectivists are jerks has a scope problem. Some certainly are and that kind can be insufferable, even to their dogs . But all you need to do is point to the way you are being welcomed here as rebuttal.

Michael

[mrorville1]

Andrew ryan was the main antagonist of Bioshock. It is a video game where it is based off of Rand's ideals.

[Selene]

On 3/7/2012 at 10:39 PM, mrorville1 said:

Andrew ryan was the main antagonist of Bioshock. It is a video game where it is based off of Rand's ideals.

[omitted]:

I was aware of Bioshock being patterned on Rand's ideas, but I do not know the characters in the game.

So again, tell us about your "Anarcho-Communist" "friend?"

Also, the plebe reference.

Adam