basimpson22 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 I would like to see arguments that justify the overthrow of Jacobo Arbenz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I would like to see arguments that justify the overthrow of Jacobo Arbenz.Aristocrates,Why would anyone want to see a justification of that?It would be far better to study Bernays and see why it happened so that crap won't ever happen again. (Like study how propaganda public relations works for real.)Unless you're just a contrarian looking to see if you can goad people you look down on. Then you might decide to make a "leading question" kind of request that presumes the folks you address believe that something bad is justifiable, thus they are (1) stupid, (2) evil, or (3) hypocrites.Whatever...Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I would like to see arguments that justify the overthrow of Jacobo Arbenz.I'd like a new leach field for my septic system.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basimpson22 Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 I would like to see arguments that justify the overthrow of Jacobo Arbenz.I'd like a new leach field for my septic system.--BrantI know where you can get a free perc test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I would like to see arguments that justify the overthrow of Jacobo Arbenz.I'd like a new leach field for my septic system.--BrantI know where you can get a free perc testI'd pay a hundred bucks for that info. It'd have to gork (grok?) with the authorities. If I can find an original public record of my 32 yo system no perc test is required, but that's a hang up so far.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basimpson22 Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 I would like to see arguments that justify the overthrow of Jacobo Arbenz.Aristocrates,Why would anyone want to see a justification of that?It would be far better to study Bernays and see why it happened so that crap won't ever happen again. (Like study how propaganda public relations works for real.)Unless you're just a contrarian looking to see if you can goad people you look down on. Then you might decide to make a "leading question" kind of request that presumes the folks you address believe that something bad is justifiable, thus they are (1) stupid, (2) evil, or (3) hypocrites.Whatever...MichaelHey Michael! Man, it's been a long time since I posted this. Tonight I was doing some research on this and made me think of this post. First, I want to say that I admit I was out-of-line in the way I presented this topic. Anyways, about Bernays.....You make a valid point, but that is not the underlying issue. The problem is when a single corporation has the ability to persuade the Presidency to act in a manner contrary to democracy and diplomacy. More specifically, when a single corporation has the ability to influence a government to promote war and corruption in order to protect and promote its economic interests. Here's a nice little story from the New York Times about the UFChttp://www.nytimes.c...z-Phelan-t.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Look, a corporate entity has money and power mostly, usually. So it injects itself into politics? Wonder why. Good reasons and bad reasons and in between reasons. The real question is, WHY CORPORATIONS?--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basimpson22 Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 Why corporations? I don't understand what you're asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Aristocrates,I am no fan of the corrupt crony capitalism system that evolved in Central and South America--neither the USA policy of treating it as a slave camp (don't get me started on Operation Condor) and junkyard, nor the corrupt governments who would sell their own mothers for a small price. I lived there long enough to see all this up close.Be careful with Che worship. He is just one side of the class warfare mentality. (I looked at your blog from your link.) He might see the injustices from one class, but he is not so discerning on the injustices of another.It's the old conundrum in Latin America, who should rule (and confiscate land, kill citizens and have secret police and all the rest), the old money elite spouting tradition or the new money elite spouting Marx?How about neither?I often had long discussions with left-leaning Brazilians who would tell me that they had to fight the multinational corporations because they are buying up Brazil. I would ask, who is selling the country? The multinationals or Brazilians? And then the discussions would go downhill. We have had separation of church and state on a formal level and nobody ever thought that would be possible until it happened. Time to have separation of economy and state.When you mix gigantic corporations, greedy politicians and guns, you get war. And I don't mean just USA corporations and politicians. It doesn't matter who's fighting to these fine people, either, so long as it is not their family members.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Why corporations? I don't understand what you're asking.They are legally created entities. How do they jibe with gov. that only protects rights? Why do governments need to be involved in tort?--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basimpson22 Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 you tell me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 you tell meThey don't and they don't.--Brantall I can do now--not trying to be a smart ass, but contracts can be protected with bonds and private arbitration and economic shunning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basimpson22 Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Man, I'm not trying to be a smart ass either when I ask this question. How did we go from the UFC's involvement in Guatemala to tort law? I'm not seeing a connection. Yes, they are legally created entities....I don't deny that. I have nothing against corporations.... Anyways, I'm not sure where you're coming from on this issue..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Man, I'm not trying to be a smart ass either when I ask this question. How did we go from the UFC's involvement in Guatemala to tort law? I'm not seeing a connection. Yes, they are legally created entities....I don't deny that. I have nothing against corporations.... Anyways, I'm not sure where you're coming from on this issue.....UFC was what a corporation with legally defined rights and responsibilities. It would have been quite a different company, I would think, without that government standing and maybe not capable of economic imperialism.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basimpson22 Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 You must mean the U.S. government. Well, Michael speaks of separation of economy and state (which I completely agree with) and you, correct me if i'm wrong, hint at the solution being to remove the gov't, which automatically brings to my mind the concept of anarchism... Personally, I believe what anarchists preach is very true. They see the evils that are spawned from hierarchical organizations which includes both governments and corporations. That's not to say that governments and corporations are inherently evil. Also, a variety of organizational structures can be applied to G's and C's that would act in curbing the negative effects of hierarchy or, if so desired, its very existence. Our own gov't is suppose to be operate under a system of checks and balances though it would seem that the majority of power lies within the executive branch. I'm sure you guys could easily expound on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 You must mean the U.S. government. Well, Michael speaks of separation of economy and state (which I completely agree with) and you, correct me if i'm wrong, hint at the solution being to remove the gov't, which automatically brings to my mind the concept of anarchism... Personally, I believe what anarchists preach is very true. They see the evils that are spawned from hierarchical organizations which includes both governments and corporations. That's not to say that governments and corporations are inherently evil. Also, a variety of organizational structures can be applied to G's and C's that would act in curbing the negative effects of hierarchy or, if so desired, its very existence. Our own gov't is suppose to be operate under a system of checks and balances though it would seem that the majority of power lies within the executive branch. I'm sure you guys could easily expound on that.I'm only dividing civil from criminal. Civil would be "anarchism," not rape, robbery, arson, murder, etc. The open question and perhaps a bridge is fraud.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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