CNA

I love the heroic, the history of man, science and its applications, conversations about ideas with intelligent people, and writing. Of these, I came to a love of writing only after computers and printers became available to me. Before that, the fact that I needed to edit what I wrote to achieve any satisfaction from it caused too much frustration. The result was that I did not practice writing enough and I was never good enough at it before computers to get much enjoyment from it. Writing well is hard work and takes a very sustained effort. I remember many years in school and college of really not liking writing assignments.

My first hero was my father, who was a naval aviator. He served two tours of duty in the Pacific Campaign of WWII, flying first a torpedo/attack plane and then an attack aircraft. At the end of the war, he was on Okinawa to participate in the invasion of the first Japanese home island, Kyushu. Dad served in the Navy for 22 years, during which he graduated from the Senior Naval War College and became an instructor at the Junior Naval War College. By the time I graduated from high school, I had lived in 17 states. The longest I had lived anywhere was Middletown, RI, near Newport, where we lived 4 years. Every move was a great new adventure.

My first memories were of living in the Norfolk, VA area. I remember finding snakes. I remember two bulldogs knocked my little sister down and I ran to drive the two dogs away from her, only to wind up under one of the dogs and slamming my fists into its chest furiously. Then there was the time two boys were throwing rocks at my little sister and I charged them, pausing in a ditch to pick up some stones, which I threw so fast and accurately that the two boys ran away as I renewed my charge against them. We had a woman come in to help with the cleaning named Virginia Baker. We called her Gina. She was a woman of great strength and character. We all loved her. She was black, so I was never able to understand why anyone would not judge anyone else on the basis of anything except their character.

We moved to Rod Field in the Corpus Christi, TX area. The field had been a training field during WWII, but only the officers quarters were still in use. There were several large, abandoned swimming pools on the base and one smaller one in use. There were many unused barracks and hangars. Most of the base was leased out to cotton farmers, who stored their baled cotton in the hangars part of the year. My friend Rusty and I used to ride our bikes all over the base, with my little sister sometimes tagging along. We hunted water moccasins in the cotton field irrigation ditches and played cowboys and Indians running through the barracks and over the stacked cotton bales. We used to jump off the back side of the seats at the abandoned baseball field. We hunted for horned toads, tarantulas, and scorpions. When the fields were freshly plowed, we made forts out of the large dirt clods and threw the smaller dirt clods at one another in wars. For a 6 and 7 year old boy, Rod Field was just about paradise. But, the schools were very bad.

We moved to Brigantine, NJ on the island just north of the very run-down Atlantic City. I started playing baseball and swimming on the beaches. I entered 3rd grade and Mrs. Cobb, an elderly teacher with strict standards, learned that I could not read. I was also getting all of my math problems wrong. My Mom discovered that this was because all of the math problems were written down from the board and I was writing them all down incorrectly, but then doing the math correctly. Soon, I was fitted out with glasses and math was a breeze. Reading was still a problem, however, and Mrs. Cobb told my Mom that if I did not learn to read before the end of the year, I would have to repeat 3rd grade. For a few months, I was tortured by having to read Dick, Jane, and Spot at home every night. But, in the end, I was passed on to fourth grade. Mrs. Leeds, another elderly teacher with strict standards, took over. We had to read a book and write a book report. I decided to read a book on John Paul Jones and for the first time, I found that I loved to read. This was the first book I ever read that was interesting to me. I still own the book. Of course, it was about a heroic man. I then read a Landmark book about Chief Black Hawk of the Sauk and Fox Indians. I started reading just about every book in the Landmark series, the We Were There series, and all sorts of other biographies of historical people. I found I loved history. I branched out into mysteries and science fiction also, but mostly I kept returning to history because it was just as interesting and there was so much more to learn from it. Other than reading, I played in the dense thickets or the top soil piles of a construction company with friends. In baseball, I played shortstop, second base, left field, and right field at various times, but mostly shortstop or second base. I remember that I loved going to the beach whenever we had a heavy storm. We had a few hurricanes that passed by out to sea, but the waves on the beach were great fun to watch. Dad was away on cruises leading a detachment of all-weather, low-flying attack planes for a long stretch in a Pacific Ocean cruise.

We moved back to Virginia, this time closer to Virginia Beach. Gina rejoined us for awhile, but she had left a better job to do so and she really could not afford to. She returned to it, but she helped my Mom to get through some difficult times when Dad was away on cruise. My fifth grade teacher was Mrs. Sochek (phonetic spelling). She was young, fun, intelligent, and beautiful. Her husband was a Navy officer. She made up great math problems involving such things as calculating the area of an aircraft carrier's deck. Oftentimes, I was the only one who could solve her problems, so she would frequently call on me to explain how to do the problems to the rest of the class. She had us write lots of book reports. My Dad was taking extension courses in Business Management with Cornell University at the time, so he was subscribing to BusinessWeek and the Cornell School of Management Review (or similar), so I started reading them. I was also reading the newspaper, Time magazine, and Compton's Encyclopedia regularly by then. I continued reading history. My best friend was Doug Pauley, who was a jock. We played baseball about 3 hours every summer day and most Saturdays any time of the year, except a few in the Fall when we played football. At home, I talked about politics, foreign affairs, defense policy, and history all the time with my Dad and Mom, when Dad was home from cruises. Dad was the skipper of an attack squadron and had two cruises, one to the Caribbean and one to the Mediterranean while we were here. In 1957, when I was ten, Sputnik was launched and I told Doug Pauley I was going to be a physicist. We were in his garage at the time. He did not believe me. He kept insisting that some girl in his class was more intelligent than I was. For some reason, that was important to him. I told him it was fine with me if she were. My 6th grade teacher was Mr. Duggan. He was an interesting teacher for social studies. I won an American History book for being the only student to list all 50 states with their state capitals and spelling them all correctly.

We moved to Middletown, RI. The high school had been 7 - 12 grades, but there was no longer room for the 7th grade. We were bussed to a barracks on the Naval Base at Melville overlooking acre upon acre of stored mines. My teacher was Miss Jolivet, who had been a nun, but left. She was intelligent and strict. But, she liked True/False questions and I had occasional problems with her because I knew the exception that often made what most people thought was true to be actually false. Jerry Wells was my best friend in the 7th and 8th grades in the neighborhood. His father was a warrant officer who did not think much of book learning, so Jerry was an under-performer at school, but he was really very bright. We used to go to the Naval Base Library and we soon read all of the science fiction books there. He moved away, so I started playing a lot of one-on-one basketball with Paul Larkin who moved in and was a year older. The summer before the 9th grade, I read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich and concluded that fascism and communism were very similar and both forms of socialism. In the 9th grade, I was in the first algebra class offered for advanced students at that grade level. A schedule conflict kept me out of the advanced science course, so Mr. Rezendes, who taught General Science, allowed me to read science books while he taught the class. I read books on particle physics and nuclear physics and many other topics with an ear cocked to pick up anything new he might get into. He was a good teacher. Katie Webb, a redhead, sat behind me in his class and used to play with the label of my shirts. She became my first girlfriend, though I also became good friends that year with Mary Hutchinson, who was the most intelligent girl in my grade, at least barring the really screwed-up and dark Leslie Michaels, who later showed up as a Pembroker in my class at Brown University. Dad received orders to a new station so we put our house up for sale. Dad shook hands on a deal with a buyer and the Navy changed his orders to have us stay. No papers had been signed on the house, but Dad said he had given his word, so we were homeless. Dad, Mom, myself, Karen, Betsy, Scott, and the newborn Peggy all packed up and went on a camping trip through New Hampshire, Maine, Quebec, Ontario, to Niagara Falls and back. We then spent six weeks in a small duplex at Ft. Adams before moving into a small Navy house near the Marine Corps Base area, so we could return to Middletown schools. That house was small. Scott and I shared a small bedroom. Karen slept in a closet. Betsy and Peggy shared a room. Dad was taking an University of Rhode Island extension course on International Law and used to study in the bathroom to have some quiet. This neighborhood had many more guys my age and we went to the Marine gym most Fridays to play basketball. In the Fall, there was usually a game of tackle football on a field nearby on Saturdays, so I was usually there. While living in Middletown, I cut lawns in the summer and delivered newspapers the last two years. I was on the debate team in the 9th grade. I ran cross country in the 10th grade, the year the new high school opened. That was the year I took geometry, which I loved. I had a fairly good English teacher, Mr. North. The best course was Honors American History, in which we had a surprisingly good book and we had many classroom discussions. Mr. Anthony was magnificent. He also organized a class trip to New Hampshire to go skiing. That was my first skiing experience. Some kids did some drinking, so that was the last of the larger group trips, but Mr. Anthony took a few of us from the Honors History class on two more ski trips. Mr. Anthony was a retired Army major who had fought in the Korean War.

Dad retired after 22 years of service and we moved to Tulsa, OK, where Dad intended to get a job with American Airlines, though he had no offer from them until after we had already moved there. I went out with Dad on the trip to buy a house. We found a great stone house. I helped Dad make the down-payment by giving him the $1500 I had saved cutting lawns and delivering newspapers. The cost of the beautiful house was $36,000, in 1963. Leslie had been born shortly before we left RI. The new house was short a bedroom, so I slept in what was meant to be a small study off the large family room. It was often a noisy place to try to study. I took Honors English, Honors Algebra II and Advanced Geometry, and Honors Chemistry. Mr. Dikes was a good English teacher, Mrs. Matthews was a good math teacher, and Mr. Bernard was a good chemistry teacher. Mr. Hickman was pretty good for Oklahoma History and Civics. Soon, I had a new group of friends, generally from the advanced classes, and we had a group that played tackle football most Saturdays for about 3 hours. We had serious discussions, with a number of us being Goldwater supporters, and we played bridge fairly often. We were not party-goers, though the school had a strong contingent who were. Of my group of friends, three became doctors, one a mathematician, one a dentist, two became lawyers, one an Economics professor at Northwestern University, and one a successful businessman. Another, very unacademically inclined, became the much acclaimed future principal of our high school! He was always very funny and always talking about how stupid he was. I used to tell him that no one so humorous could possibly be stupid. He was a character. The summer between 11th and 12th grades, my counselor, Mrs. Stansberry, helped me get into a summer program at Brown University, where we studied calculus, computer programming, and materials science and engineering. I loved it. Especially the calculus and the materials science. I did well and that helped me to get acceptance into Brown University when I applied. In my senior year, I flew through the calculus course and took physics, which was taught with the greatest imaginable incompetence. I took Honors English, but old Mrs. Higgins was awful, so at the end of the semester, I transferred to a Creative Writing class. A couple of the girls in that class were really very good writers. That class was an interesting challenge, though the teacher was more enthusiastic than intelligent or knowledgeable. I was on the debate club team. About December, a friend told me he had read The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand. I had never heard of her, but I got the book and read it early in 1965. Then I read Atlas Shrugged about April. That summer, I had a job as a geophone placement technician for oil exploration crews and I got all of the back issues of the Objectivist Newsletter and read them. I went off to college as an Objectivist.

The next adventure was going to Brown University. I was a physics major who had never had a decent course in physics. There were 52 people in the physics course for physics majors that year. A number of them were actually Applied Math majors, with a median Math SAT score of 800. Others were graduates of the Bronx School of Science. In any case, my Oklahoma high school was definitely in the minor division compared to the schools that many of the Brown students had gone to. I studied 16 hours a day and pulled off an A- that first semester. I pulled the A- up to an A the second semester. That was back in the day when few A's were given in any class, especially in math or science classes. Sophomore year, the number of physics majors was half what it had been at the start of the Freshman year. Junior year, the number was half what it had been the sophomore year. I took a lot of math course as well as physics. Through the mid-term, I did well in each math course, but in the late semester I turned all my concentration to physics and did well in it, at considerable expense to my math courses. But, I figured that I learned enough in each math course to have an idea of what I could do with various math techniques and I could always read up again on it as I needed it as a tool. That approach has always worked fairly well for me. Other courses tended to get my attention or not depending on whether anything useful was being taught. About half the time the teacher was doing something worthwhile and about half the time it was a waste of time. But, I loved solving physics problems. While at Brown, I also became involved in many a bull session, of which there were many due to the Vietnam War. Commonly, I was one side of the debate and several socialists were the other side. I met Larry Bellows from Dallas who was an Applied Math major and an Objectivist. He met Roger Donway and introduced me to him. When we were Juniors, David Kelley was a freshman and Roger brought him around to meet Larry and I. Earlier, Roger had introduced us to his older brother Walter Donway who was two years ahead of us at Brown. Larry, Roger, and David were my best friends at Brown, though there were a couple of physics majors who were also friends.

Well, that was long-winded! But it was good to force myself to remember the names of many of my teachers. I was fortunate that at least some of them had not been brought down from the professional level to the blue collar level by socialist labor unions at that time. Also, living near Navy bases also meant one was in a somewhat more cosmopolitan environment that that of the average town. Even Tulsa, now relatively parochial, was less so then. It had been an oil capital and it still retained that world-traveler influence back then.

Wow, hon, that was seriously long winded. ;) I'm seriously impressed but not surprised in the least bit by your remembering so many of your teachers' names and others in your life. There are a number of areas in what you wrote. But I am most curious do you have any more specific adventures with details that I can revel in, how it made you feel, what you observed and your perception of it, and my being able to relive part of your life as if I was there with you?

I have to admit, I genuinely enjoy this thread...a lot. If only we could have a get-together and hash this stuff out in person, that would be grand

Charles, something tells me you dug out a diary, or have a photographic memory ! What surprises me most is that a lot of us have a military brat background...haha! Great entry btw.

Stephen, so you're a car buff to boot with physics? Are you still doing any work on cars after all these years?

Angie, it doesn't surprise me about your confrontation. I bet he still has scars...haha!

~ Shane

Shane,

Charles can do some very very serious output. I can also do some very serious output with my own writing, but man, he can also do it as well and can be quite impressive. He is amazing. I'm astounded that he remembers so many teachers' names. I have always been horrendous with names but great with remembering faces, etc. I'm very visual and to an extent photographic memory. I "think" in pictures and replaying it in my head and can go into tremendous amounts of detail because it's like "watching" a movie, remembering almost verbatim what was said, etc. I remember people's names in some circumstances and they are the ones that have made some sort of impact on my life or someone that I got into it with.

You're probably going to laugh at this one. In college, I had or should say have a great friend who now lives in Florida though and so far away from me but that's okay. I've always gotten along better with those that were older than me. She had 25 years on me and I love her dearly. I saw this woman almost everday for 3 years before I remembered her name. D'oh. Arlene Rubenstein!!!!! Once we became better and better friends, I didn't want to offend her and ask her what her name was because I had forgotten it. Yikes. But you know, that changed. For those here on OL, I see your names in black and white when I read so it reinforces who everyone is. LOL

As for the scarred fallen for a brief moment comrade in my high school days, I don't think it would have scarred him but perhaps. I know after it was done he approached me in the hallway and said, "We're still friends; right?" I said, "Of course." We were more acquaintances than anything else but hung out on ocassion in junior high. Plus his liking me that way didn't help much either. LOL But do have other stories though that even I have to laugh at and scaring people off and no doubt made them taken inventory of themselves. Where I lived in Signal Hill a number of years ago and Steve's son's girlfriend had come over. Sweet but very naive girl, very young. Someone had come over that was friend's with her boyfriend and this friend she did not like in the least bit. She gave me a bit of a run down on him real quick and how he was. Unearned cocky arrogant asshole, disrespectful.

After talking with her a bit in the kitchen and his sitting in the living room on the couch, I told her let's go in there and watch this. My "evil" little plan went into effect and putting him into his place. We both walked into the room and sat down on the couch. He was directly across from me and I said nothing, just observed him for a while, getting a bit more of an understanding of how he operates, what he says and body language, etc., and how to approach him hehehehehe, she started to talk to him a bit. I only had her information of what she told me and then what little observations I had of him for that time sitting in front of him to go on so better for me to watch him more closely to get a better idea. Once she got him talking, I then started in on the convo. Nonchalantly and being friendly but knowing full well what I was about to do to him. *evil laugh here* After all was said and done, he ultimately said, "How do you know all this stuff about me. I don't even know you," he took off out the front door and never came back again. LMAO ooooo, freaky, freaky. LOL Nah, been around these types more than my share and know how they operate and did quite a number on him....definitely scared him though.

Even the girl that was there and playing along with me, she was like, wow, how did you know all that about him. We both had a great laugh with it though!!!!! I did something kinda sorta similar (different circumstances) with a guy that was very similar, gorgeous man but soooo disrespectful to women. It was my first job and I was working at Subway so long ago. He would come in for lunch or dinner and of course all the girls in the shop would drool over him and he knew it. It bugged me that he treated women so nastily and that we were inferior to him in all respects and that we were deserving of so little. I couldn't resist and bursting his bubble one night and do have to admit took great satisfaction in doing what I did to him. Even the girls that I worked with were surprised in that there was full blown in your face rejection on so many levels when he tried it with me and had to rub it in even more. He avoided me as much as he could thereafter. Oh, wow, also have an English professer in college that I did the same thing to, Mr. Burris. Different circumstances but similar in that he was a woman hater, extremely controlling. Oh, I gotta tell this story but later and needing to remember it all and what happened and getting it down. After finally getting into the other English professor's class, even she came up to me and said, "I am so glad you did what you did. He had it coming." Everyone was terrified to speak up to him because he was so well respected in that college. So many of women at that school and was the hot topic and what happened with him out in the hallway when we got into it. Interesting enough though, he quit his position about 6 months later and a lot of the students and teachers believed it was because of what happened out in the hallway between us.

There are other posts I still would like to read and reply to but I'm way tired, worked all day and throughout most of the night and wanted to reply before going to bed BUT wooohooo have kinda sorta a day off today so hopefully will have a bit more time to reply to the other posts. I see Charles has posted and I look forward to reading his very much!!!

I re-read my last post to Phil and it's kinda all over the place. Sorry you guys and it possibly being tortuous for you all to get through. Oi There's some repetitive shit but I'm not going to mess with it again. I gotta go to sleep badly. Burning the candle at both ends.

Subject: Passions - Part 2

Continued from Post #41:

"If you want an argument or a debate after midnight, go to Phil's room. It's down at the end of the hall, where you hear all the raised voices and shouting."

Interesting, Phil. So many that are into heavy debating and getting panties all tied up in a knot. In the 10th grade, myself and this other guy got into it if you will in the middle of class -- for the life of me, I can't remember what all was said but it revolved around the US going into another country, oil, gas prices here, shortages, etc., and he was supportive of our not becoming involved even though it would hurt us and we all would suffer to some degree here in the US and would be reminiscent of the crap in the 70s. For the life of me, I can't remember exactly what was said or what specific event it revolved around. It was something that was brought up by the teacher to get the students' views on it and he was very vociferous with it and he irritated the hell out of me. No one else in the class had voiced an opinion, assuming didn't care or whatever or just not smart enough to possess a view of it.

This guy and myself had been friends in junior high so when my irritation became too much I spoke up (my always being so vocal anyway at least then and still this way to an extent now but only if you tick me off and my bitch side will come out and will be brutal and will put the person in their place, not often that this happens though) But when this went down in 10th grade and my irritation, there wasn't this little tiny, timidm fragile little flower voice. Very much in your face and no backing down with raised voice. He attempted to defend his view and I'd shut him down every time and bringing up the consequences of our not becoming involved and a repeat of past events and how it would affect us and how we would suffer.

One of the other students had said something and tried to cut it short because it was getting heated and the teacher said no, I want to hear this, keep it going. The bell rang to go to the next class and we still continued at it and continued to shut him down. I have to admit it was nice to see him begin to cower and his realizing he chose the wrong person to battle with. The teacher just stared at me.

After all was said and done, the teacher and many of the students had said that I needed to join the debate team. The teacher pushed it hard but nah, no interest. It's not my job to convince others that they are wrong and that I am right. Or I perhaps may be wrong. BUT if I am wrong, it is MY JOB to fix it based on my own further thinking, firsthand knowledge, experience and understanding because it is MY error and it is not their job to convince me otherwise. I'm extremely stubborn this way, I want to figure it out on my own through my own understanding, thinking, experience, firsthand knowledge, etc., thereby it truly becomes MY OWN KNOWLEDGE and not that of another's.

For me, no need to get my panties all tied up in a bunch and angry and upset and early heart attack or whatever or allowing others to push my buttons. I've been through enough drama and arguments and shouting matches if you will and my fighting for what was right for me when I was younger and all the shit I went through to get to where I am now ....been there done that with so much DRAMA, DRAMA, DRAMA when I was a kid....nope, I like my peace and quiet now and sitting back and relaxing and enjoying what I've found!!! pursuing my interests, my happiness, my money and all the other goodies!!!!!! LOL ;)

Of course, there are those that really enjoy this aspect and no problems here. Whatever floats yer boat!!! For me, doesn't float my boat at all. After everything that I have been through and this point in my life, peace and quiet is what I am after!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't get me wrong, there can be disagreements, etc., etc., with those that I am friends with but it's not pursued and I recognize very quickly as do they I think when there is not much to keep pursuing other than we can agree to disagree type thing. ;) Or I'll put a stop to it before it gets to that point. I'm here for fun and entertainment and no more drama and getting my panties all tied up in a bunch and why I stay to threads that interest me where I can have some laughs and fun and ENTERTAINMENT in whatever form!!!!!! LOL

Have you picked up your interests though in mathematics, etc., that you lost an interest in but that in private????

Just as in college, I spent more and more energy and thought on 'extra-curricular' activities - studying Objectivism, studying psychology, some public speaking and lecturing. Sports, training for the marathon. Travel. Some teaching and tutoring opportunities. First in math and computers, and then in history, English, literature, etc.

Aw!!!! it sounds like you started to pursue which you truly enjoyed the most??!!

When I say something is my passion in a career or hobby sense, I mean that I love to do some combination of three things in that area: To read, to teach, to write. I've steadily discovered year by year, step by step that my passion is for "the humanities" more than for math, computers, or the sciences. In my case, by the humanities I mean literature, history, the visual arts, and philosophy / psychology.

I've always loved science and technology and enjoyed the logic of math and computers. So what changed? What tidal sea-change or brain transplant turned me emphatically to the humanities?

In literature and history it was great and stirring books. Ones I discovered on my own and often half-forgotten in our culture and schools. In the arts: for me, painting, sculpture, and architecture -- it was two trips to Europe -- Vienna and Italy -- and seeing the great museums, the sculpture and paintings of Michelangelo, Raphael, and Donatello. Bernini, Brunelleschi and Fischer von Erlach in architecture and Bernini in both sculpture and architecture. (The movies played a role.)And the Dutch painters and the Impressionists. And SO many others. In philosophy, it was both Ayn Rand and what I learned about thinking skills, first as a (software) systems designer and then as an organizer and a teacher.

And in general, it is because the humanities is centrally about *man* - his nature, his glory, his skills, his stature, his complexity, all the varied things he can create in the realm of the spirit. This was always my passion from the days of my childhood heroes. It just dulled and it faded, weather-beaten and overlaid for a time, due to bad teachers and abysmally ignorant curriculum.

Not much to say here other than :) :) I wonder if I can throw in another smiley? What the hell, might as well ;)

(I soon expect to continue the parts of this which relate to teaching in the "Teaching Literature and Music" thread. It's a good example of how one can successfully build a paying career out of an interest or passion -- if anyone wants to do that -- and not necessarily having the right 'credentials' or degrees. In many ways this next part, discovering and starting late to implementing what someone was meant to do is the more lively and interesting -- See that thread tonight or tomorrow.)

You are most correct and totally agree in that you don't always have to have credentials and/or degrees to be well paid or to set new ground or to be a great man or great woman. I know many many men and women as well that don't have degrees or haven't finished high school that are absolutely phenomenal. There are a number of these people that lurk or on OL now that are this way and they know who they are.

I had a neighbor a long time ago and ultiamtely turned into friends. Haven't spoken to him in quite a while though. His not familiar with O'ism at all but pretty much is in hiding if you will. He's an inventor. As I got to know him better, he let me in on his little secret and took me down into his little area of his house where he creates his passions and loves. So many inventions of his that would do absolute wonders for everyone. I asked him why he hadn't pursued it, patents, etc., and started to make money off of it and to my surprise, he said, "Why should I? It will only be taken from me. These are mine." This response surprised me considering the circumstances but also brought a smile to my face because I understood him perfectly and his whys. He took me through each invention hanging from his walls, laying on his work bench, pulled some out of the drawers. I'd pick something up and ask him, "What is this and what does it do?" His face would light up with enthusiasm and would start explaining what it was for. Despite his inventions and tremendous amount of potential, he works menial jobs, enough to survive and that's it. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this and his choices. Of course, there are those that would look down on this, but hey, to each their own!!!!!!

There are truly so many men and women out there that are John Galts or Howard Roarks?? and these individuals not being familiar with O'ism or who Ayn Rand is and carry these values or came to these values beforehand and without ever knowing who Ayn was. I haven't read the Fountainhead or any other books from Ayn Rand and her fiction novels aside from Atlas but I think the other person that I am familiar with as I have read it here on OL is that of Howard Roark?? I think it is. These men and women are truly out there. I've known a few, my neighbor being one of them and quite honestly it's truly interesting to think about when it comes to Ayn Rand and what she wrote about.

Angie's photos are fascinating and beautiful. Her love of natural lighting results in her catching some incredible moments, which pass too quickly for most people to even notice them, let alone appreciate them. Her gift is holding an instant forever, so we can all revel in the beauty of that instant for as long as we like. Angie is a time-stretcher with a perfect eye for the selection of the time worthy of eternal appreciation.

I like the idea of this exercise Phil. I have to leave the lab now for a few winks and must return soon to finish a report on the surface chemistry of combustion-formed carbon particles as a function of post-combustion temperature processing, which is covered by one of my many loves in life, namely science and its applications. But, I will post something here later.

It is interesting how many here with active minds were also active in their childhood adventures. I have a few myself, though there was never a time I can remember when I did not know better than to be a pyromaniac. It's a good thing you grew out of that Phil! You probably would have become good at it with disastrous results!

Thank you, sweetie!!! I too like the idea because it humanizes with whom we all interact to whatever degree here on OL rather than just black and white words on a screen. There is a human being on the other end!!!!! I am in anticipation of hearing or should say reading your stories, either adventures or tragedies with a ray of light that lead you to who you are today. We all have these. I know I do for sure but I am who I am today because of these tragedies and what I learned from them and ultimately turning these to my favor and making it work for me rather than against me. Choosing that of life or death....for a very long time have always chosen the first and making it work for me rather than against me. No matter how bad things seem to be at that time, there's always a light at the end of the tunnel....never giving up and pushing forward with fierce determination to get through it, knowing that this isn't my or your constant state and that you fight it tooth and nail no matter what. Hell no!!!!! The best revenge if you will is that of success and your achievement and showing them that you will not allow them to affect you the way they want you to be affected or for them to destroy you and they will NEVER get the best of you. You're too strong for it, too much of a fighter.

> [bicycling] also should help with mental faculties and thinking

I'm sorry...say that again???

Yes, exercise helps keep the mind sharp and thinking. There's many different forms on how people learn and problem solving. I do my best thinking and learning when I am actively moving. I remember in college and studying human anatomy and thinking it through and if I had a block if you will, all I would do is get up and start pacing the floors or walking around the house while reading my anatomy books or what have you. Also I do this when thinking about other areas that I may find complex and difficult to figure out. I'll do some step aerobics and will get so deep in thought and thinking about the problem that by the time I am done I've figured it out and understand it. If I am struggling with this aspect of it and trying to solve the problem either what I am reading or another issue that I am thinking about, I will do the same and staying active and sometimes "thinking" out loud and verbalizing it. By the time I am done, problem solved. I know it sounds strange but it works. There's medical terms for these different forms of how people learn, understand, etc., and unfortunately the terminology is escaping me now because it's been so long.

They're finally doing research into this aspect of it and how exercise keeps your mental faculties sharp, thinking, problem solving, etc. It's been around a long long time but never any serious research into it until somewhat recently. Here is a quick article I just pulled up to give you an idea. I can go to the journal of medicine and look for the specific article but here is a bit of it.

Improve Brain Function -- exercise

Remember, I am the medical junkie over here and is a major passion of mine. There's things I know about medicine that I've been aware of for a long time (some right underneath their noses and so simple) but "they" haven't quite gotten it yet or haven't begun research into it.

> when it seems to happen it's either accidental or my ID monster took over the controls--that's why Tokyo's burning. It's that damn radiation! [brant]

Omigod. See now, no smiley,,,, so I have to assume that's serious.

> Unfortunately the watermark is still on the shot, doubled, because I got soooooo tired of people taking my work. [Angie]

Angie, you realize you could make a lot of money as a photographer, right?!?!

Thank you very much, Phil. I've had many many offers to sell my work, have been published, etc. But I'm very protective of it for obvious reasons. I have tons of other shots but just haven't had much time to go through them. 99 percent are on my external hard drive. With the whole ordeal with my son, I had to put it on the back burner. I miss it desparately but that's okay. I'll pick it up again soon, not sure when but soon. A lot of these pictures I'm posting are shots taken years ago and still improving. When all of the stuff started to go down, I was beginning to dabble in street photography and photo journalism. I was at the train station and almost got arrested and only got a few shots off. The whole 9/11 thing really screwed things up, especially for photographers. There's so many ideas in my head that I want to play with but limited because of not being able to have access to my desired locations. I showed this shot to Mike about a week ago. I was just beginning to play with photo journalism and street photography (3rd day out on the streets of LA and learning and experimenting) and this is one of the few shots I got at the train station and it turned in to being one that I really really like. I love the lighting. This man was asleep with all the hustle and bustle around him. There was a bum sitting right behind him and asleep as well so adjusted the settings on the cam to completely blacken this area of the photograph out so it wouldn't distract from the main subject and that is the man slumped in his seat asleep. The lighting there also I just couldn't pass up. God, I do miss it so much!!!! Soon enough!!!

Tell me about it, Angie! I didn't ever have to go to the hospital like your sister, since my bones seemed to have been made of titanium, but once I knelt down in the junkyard the wrong way and a sharp piece of broken glass poked about an inch into my knee. I still have the scar. There's the time I ran into a car on my bike and flipped completely over the bike, landing on my back. And the time (I liked to play with matches and see how much of the dry desert like grass and tumbleweed would burn) I almost started the neighborhood on fire...actually that happened twice. Did I mention I was a very stupid kid and never learned my lessons the first time? And then......well, that's enuff.

Oh, my GOD, you almost set the neighborhood on fire?? DAYAMMM. We never did that. Wow, Phil. Thinking you were invincible. ;)

Hi Shane,

>...did you ever play the card game Mind Trap? That's another love of mine...puzzles.

Shane, I haven't heard of it. I used to play cards a lot in junior high and high school with my cronies - hearts mostly (and chess and "Go"). "Go" is the only game I miss. Right now my mother is in a nursing home - I moved to Florida to take care of her - and I've been doing crossword puzzles with her to try to fight off any mental decline. I don't enjoy them all that much, but they're ok. She likes it and her mind is much better than it was even six months ago because of the challenge.

I hope your mom is doing as well as expected and sorry to hear. Not an easy time I am sure.

> Do you still go on bike rides to revisit your childhood fun?

I've had a bike in several places I've lived as an adult and greatly enjoyed it. Maybe it's time again!

Oh, most DEFINITELY time to pick it up again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If it brings you joy and happiness and definitely healthy for you, also should help with mental faculties and thinking, DO IT, DO IT, DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW, there is no greater joy than biking fast years ago through New York's Central Park and down Broadway from 59th street thru Times Square and down to work near Madison Square Garden (mid 30's?) when there is a transit strike and you are going faster than all the gridlocked taxis. Glory daze, glory daze, glory daze...

:) :)

Subject: Passions

> "How about some more info about yourself? What other passions and loves do you [Phil] have? What makes you tick so to speak? " [Angie]

When I was a little kid, I loved to explore places, as far as I could go from home. This worked well as I was hyperactive (and noisy), even more than most kids. Have you ever seen those kids, usually boys, who are tugging on the poor mom's arm as if to tear it off in the supermarket? Or, they run around in cirles at high speed, yelling "vroom, vroom, vroom"?

Oh, yeah, I've seen those kids up close and personal. My son CHRIS!!!!! Rambunctious like you wouldn't believe. He's calming down quite a bit though as he's getting older. I was the same way. Always on the go and exploring anything and everything and for the most part still this way.....curiosity and experiencing things firsthand is a wonderful thing!!!!! Also can't forget, gotta love the spirit and sense of life that all kids have, their love of life and enjoying it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

We lived in the outskirts of San Diego for a while, and there was a lot to explore, both on a bicycle and on foot. There were little gullies and rocky hillsides and city dumps and even a nearby small mountain. I went everywhere on that bicycle and no hill seemed too step or garbage dump too smelly on foot.

Yep. Where I grew up, there were many abandoned houses, some in complete disarray, dilapidated but being kids that we were we had to go see and explore and play. Sometimes got into trouble though. I have one very vivid memory of myself and my sister and a bunch of other kids went over to this house that was on many acres, completely destroyed, not well kept, etc. We were playing in the tree house and swinging from the rope that lead to the ground from the tree house itself. It broke and my sister went crashing to the ground and to our surprise crashed and broke the wood that was covered up with dirt and got lodged in what obviously was underground tunnel ways. It was an interesting house no doubt. Unfortunately, the broken wood and nails tore into her thigh and impailed her leg something fierce. We tried to get her loose and couldn't so I went hauling ass home, running so fast tripping and falling a number of times, got bit twice by spiders, one rather large (I don't like spiders in the least bit because I've been bitten pretty badly in the past) but it didn't phase me at all and kept running to get my dad. We got her out but she ended up in the emergency repairing the damage done to her leg. Not a happy girl at all. Needless to say, we only went to that house maybe 2 or 3 times thereafter. But have so many stories of great adventures for us when we were kids and still have some pretty great adventures and experiences. My most recent comical one and a lot of fun was out in Yellowstone!!!!! Some funny funny stuff going on there. LOL

Next came books. I had loved the little children's classics and 'Landmark' books they seem to have published throughout the first half of the century. Especially postwar, the 50's. But when I was ten I discovered science fiction. And that became a central passion for many years. My parents were so happy to see me quietly reading in a corner for long hours of peace and quiet. It was like they had suddenly acquired a different child who could sit without moving a muscle like a rock or a stone.

hehehehe, my son is the same but that with science books. Get him to chill out for a bit, hand him a science book and he's glued to it. A bomb could go off outside and wouldn't phase him at all. Or if I interrupt him and his time, he'll get a bit irritated with me. He's such a cutie. Love him dearly.

I was going nowhere. Highway to hell. [Phil sings it loudly in front of the keyboard..]

Things changed for me twice - in 8th grade and then in 10th grade. And this is where some lifelong passions started to stride in from the shadows. So many times in people's lives it's an English teacher who first reached out to them, who inspired them, who changed them. It was for me. In Seventh? grade I had published a poem that impressed teachers and parents in the school newspaper. In 8th grade, Mrs. D thought she saw potential and that I wasn't a total retard. She had the school put me in - her - "A" division.

She was a tiny, demanding woman with a really loud voice. She scared some of the kids and even made the principals run and hide, but I loved her. She cast me in the school play twice and that's probably what blew on the tiny sparks and kept the flame from dying entirely of my love for words and for the English language.

Teachers make all the difference. Mr. Peralta was my science teacher in high school. We got a long really well. Out of my entire schooling through high school, he is the only one that inspired me and I thoroughly enjoyed his class. He was a great teacher. He knew the potential was there with me and did what he could to bring it out and he did!!!! But unfortunately, many other forces working against it, home, friends, myself, and some other things I was going through at that time, etc. Something had happened that I won't talk about here but I went running from his classroom down the hall (totally surreal) and he came running after me. I went into the girls bathroom and his telling me, "Please come out, I know there's something wrong, I can see it on your face, please come out," and my telling him, "No, leave me alone." Anyway....funny because I was thinking a few years back about going back to that highschool and giving him a visit!!!!!

(I don't know if this is interesting to people who don't know me, but hopefully I'll finish this later...)

Yes, please do write more!!!

Amazing shots, Angie! I have to admit, as much as I love Hawaii, I miss my home in Maine. There's nothing quite like the trifecta in New England where you have the spring of life, autumn with the multi-colored leaves, and then all the same trees in a blanket of snow. But winter is my favorite. The Yosemite picture makes me want to go there. Just beautiful.

Thank you very much, Shane. I have similar but more interesting shots at the Dunes in Death Valley done with a Fish Eye lens and Tilt Shift lens. Some way trippy effects with a Tilt Shift, gives the impression of being miniaturized.

Way contrast to your favorite time of year. When I was last out there and took the one shot I'll post, it was about 120 degrees out. Death Valley is so well worth it and to deal with the heat and other hazards from wild life. So many opps there and can't wait to go back again. Hmmm....I don't think I have one on that other site with the Tilt Shift but may have one with a Fish Eye. Where I am at we don't get the four seasons if you will. But as much as I have travelled in the last 3 or 4 years, it makes where I live a bit drab but beauty still abounds in the most unusual of places!!

I'm always very critical of anything that I produce and how it can be improved or not entirely happy with the results and wanting to learn and get better with it. This shot below was processed in Lightroom, new software I was trying out. A bit saturated and one hell of a bitch calming the pinkish hues down. Everything I did to no avail. But much better at it now and processing the images from RAW format. The thing I like about this shot though is that I was maybe only two feet away from this bush if that. The Fish Eye is an extreme wide angle lens that gives 'curvature' to your shots, depending on how you hold the cam. I was kneeling down in front of it and kept getting my knees in the shot on the left and right side of the picture LOL

Unfortunately the watermark is still on the shot, doubled, because I got soooooo tired of people taking my work. I have the original but would have to dig it off of an external hard drive and would take me forever to find I am sure. So will post it anyway with the double watermark over it. Distracting but you may like it.

I haven't read Lie To Me. But I have read quite a few of Dean Koontz's novels. He's good. I have a hard time putting his books down. The one I'd like to write is called Dream of the Soul Racers. It's one of the once-in-a-lifetime offers that the Devil hands out to those whose souls he possesses. This was a story concept of mine back in HS. But he puts them through a hellish obstacle course. If they win, they get to keep their souls, and the offer is good for life. But...what are the chances they'll make it? Hmmmm. And I promise to do my best to keep it more intellectual than gorey, but you have to throw in a carcass or two...haha!

You may like Lie To Me. I tried reading Koontz once and just couldn't get through it. Read a lot of Stephen King though when I was way way young. Your idea for your book does sound quite interesting. Have you written anything at all, just for yourself, that you may want to consider posting here on OL? Or maybe you have already? I browse OL often and read but really taking the time to go through the site I don't do often. I will usually just scan real quick, looking for something that may perhaps interest me and then move on to the next.

Chris’s sudden death got me wondering again about Adam, who stopped posting on March 19th. We’ve been pretty chummy here on OL. He wouldn’t acknowledge that his name was a pseudonym, though among Heinlein fans his name had a likelihood factor somewhere between Michael Valentine Smith and Lazarus Long. Anyway, I tried a Google search “Adam Selene New Jersey”, and bad news, this turned up: http://www.queensda.org/newpressreleases/2010/march/cappellazzi_cmp_3_19_10.pdf

No judgements, just passing on the finding.

Wow. I was wondering about Adam as well and noticing his absence here on OL and also wondered if he had passed. I spoke to him briefly about some of my own stuff going on with my son and what happened to him at school. He offered some really great suggestions.

These are some very very serious charges against him. I truly hope that what is alleged is not true but doesn't look good on what I've read. Wow. Hopefully he'll be able to find competent enough counsel to defend him if he's innocent.

As for paths, I'll assume you mean writing? I'd like to try a variety of genres and not be type-cast (was that a pun? ) I have quite a few stories floating in my head. A few of them are sci-fi, a couple are fantasy, and one or two are thriller/horror ideas. Michael gave me a great idea a while back about running one of the stories as a graphic novel - Souldier Saga. I even bought software to get it started but I just have too many distractions at the moment. I have so many ideas, but need to find a way to best bring it out. I honestly don't have enough practice at it, so that impedes process, too. School first I say. Get some solid grounding with studies and research. Objectivism for me has been an anchor in all of this. It will be my hub to introducing many fundamentals in character conflicts and such. I look forward to the day when I can say...."got it!"

I don't read many novels. Well, at least not anymore. You made mention of thriller/horror. Have you ever read a book called Lie To Me? A friend of mine asked me to read it a number of years ago and so I did. It's not a book for everyone and can be rather graphic and disturbing but it is a thriller/horror/suspensful. Hard to predict the outcome as is so common in these types of books.

Lie To Me -- David Martin

I am stationed in Oahu and have been here since mid '07. I won't bore you with all the oohs and ahs as it goes without saying. But my favorite views are the sunsets. I don't know if you have a Facebook account, but I do have pictures on there of a sunset at Waikiki beach near one of the piers. In a couple weeks, I'll be doing an outing with my co-workers and will definitely be snapping a bunch of pics. I'll be interested to see what you think. I do have one regret. I was stationed in Okinawa and one of the most beautiful things I'd see on a regular basis were god fingers through the clouds hitting off the water...amazing!

I remember Hawaii pretty clearly. Beautiful there!!!! Although so young at the time, there are tons of pix and the sunsets and sunrises are gorgeous!! I do have a Facebook account but don't use it often. There's only a few pics up on FB though, not many.

It took me a bit to reduce these, remove the watermark which identifies me on the internet and uploading to a site that I don't care if it is found but I'm hesitant to post the shots connected to the other site for very good reason obviously. The latter site is the one that I will eventually be working out of and want this site to remain anonymous for now for obvious reasons.

This is the shot from San Onofre. I was originally out there doing long exposure shots but as the sun kept going down and this beautiful reddish orange hue that enveloped everything, I quickly changed lenses, switched the shutter speed but not enough so the ocean is a bit blurred in the foreground from a longer than normal exposure but won't ever forget the night being out there. I don't mind going with people shooting but times I absolutely love being out there by myself and everything is left behind except me and my cam!!!

This is the typical shot and so common from Yosemite. But when there, you can't help but greatly admire the beauty!! It's kinda funny because on this trip I slipped into that damn river while taking a few shots. I need hazard pay is what it is. LOL But well worth it. Saved my cam though but not good at 10 degrees out soaking wet, 6 am, and no change of clothing other than a men's pair of pants in my car from the person that I was with. hehehehe, that was a sight and a half and thankfully no other photographers were out there at the time when I changed next to the river. LOL

Candles = romance. Who doesn't like that? ;) A good friend of mine used to make them for a little side money.

That's a given of course!!!! For me, I use them all the time, in the morning taking a shower and/or getting ready for work, during the day and the beautiful scent that fills the house, at night, etc.

Chris Grieb - RIP

I just got a private notice from Ellen Stuttle informing me that Chris Grieb passed away and giving me some indications of where to confirm this.

On his Facebook account, there is the following message dated yesterday morning from his friend, Barbara Stevens:

For those of you who are friends of Chris's, or just correspond with him here, I have some very sad news.

Chris Grieb passed away sometime on Sunday, May 16, 2010. There are no details yet (he was found in his apartment on Wednesday), but it appears that he died in his sleep. Chris was a dear friend, a kind-hearted and... unique individual who was deeply interested in the lives of his friends and acquaintances, His wide-ranging knowledge was daunting--he was our own Alex Trebek. It's impossible to express right now all the ways he touched my life, all the little daily triggers that will make me think of him. For me, he was the person who put the friend in friendship, to use an old saying. He will be sorely missed.

This message above was written by Cynthia Ingham, who has corresponded with Chris for a very, very long time. Please take a moment to remember this unique character, and join Ms. Ingham and I in remembering his soaring spirit despite the challenges he faced.

I will miss Chris, as I believe we all will. He was a chirpy delightful presence here on OL. Now he is gone...

What sad news...

What sad, sad news...

Michael

Oh, my God, this is terrible news and truly heartbreaking. He was such a sweet and caring man. I haven't been to facebook in a little while but would always see his postings and will miss them tremendously and will miss him. My deepest condolences to his family.

> So much for keeping the thread on track but it seems we're the only two interested in talking and getting to know those on OL so thank you, Shane!!!

Angie, I am going to answer the other question you asked me earlier, and particularly the second one as it applies to this thread -->

"How about some more info about yourself? What other passions and loves do you have? What makes you tick so to speak? " I just haven't had a chance yet because I think it might be long.

--Phil

Totally understand. I'm not going anywhere! Always patient and not pushy and demanding for a reply right this second. LOL At your leisure and timing for you! ;) I have more than my share of "floating" threads/posts that I've never gotten back around to for various reasons and/or have chosen not to continue with it.

Since you've spent so much time in the Air Force, and I may be misunderstanding because of so many posts up to this point, do you have the intentions of leaving the Air Force? If you've been in for so long, I would think you would have the intentions of staying in until retirement. Unless, you are close to retiring anyway which I don't think because I've looked at your profile and you're the same age I am or close to it. But then again????

I have 17.25 years in (yes, I count the months!) and plan on retiring in 3 years or so. I'll find out if I make MSgt next week. Retirement takes what they call high three, essentially the average of your last 3 years before retiring. It's been a great ride but there are other roads I wish to travel for myself.

~ Shane

I gotcha. I'm not familiar enough with this aspect. Counting the days down, uh?!?! I know you're anticipating to begin writing. What path do you anticipate taking? Do you have any goals set for when you do finally retire? Small goals? that lead up to your main goal and your personal success and achievement?

You live in Hawaii? OMG, photographers dream for me to be surrounded with so much lush beauty!!! I lived in Hawaii for a brief time when I was very young. Where exactly are you? The main island? Funny but I've actually had thoughts of moving to Alaska just for a brief time though.

With photography, I was always the last person to be given the camera to take pictures. Yikes. Now though, everyone hands me the camera. LOL Over this last weekend and at that party, a friend there handed over their 7D to me to take pictures. Wow, I have to admit it made me miss my 5D Mark II and the detail caught, how crisp the images are and the quality. It's been so long. Not being familiar with the 7D camera, it took me a while to figure it out and still didn't figure it out in the brief time I had it but I ended up being more interested in other aspects rather than being the documenter so to speak. But Hedley, an old timer there, helped refresh my memory a bit as much as he could which didn't help much though because he doesn't deal with the cams that I am used to. He has a Hasselblad, amazing camera. As the party continued and my having fun with the camera along with my frustrations with it, he came up to me drunk and said, "What's up with the camera, man; you figuring it out yet?" I responded with a giggle and said, "Well, I'm trying." He said, "Did you reading the fucking RTFIs, man?" I said, "What the hell are the RTFIs," assuming it was a term in photography from the old times. He said, "Read The Fucking Instructions" and started to laugh and walk away. I started to laugh and told him, "I don't have the fucking RTFIs, man." LMAO But Wow, I would have a hayday in Hawaii and all the photo opps!!!!! The sunsets and sunrises have to be spectacular!!!!!!! I have a shot taken down in San Onofre by the nuclear power plant that was completely surreal and felt as if I was on another planet when taking the shot. As the sun started to set, the entire beach, water, etc., had this red hue to it. It was absolutely amazing. In looking through the view finder, I found my heart rate increasing and what I was seeing through it that I had to take the cam down from my face just to see it without viewing it through the cam. Beautiful and I think is one of my fave shots from that trip!!!!!!

How long have you lived in Hawaii?

So much for keeping the thread on track but it seems we're the only two interested in talking and getting to know those on OL so thank you, Shane!!! I guess I'll throw in another passion of mine and that is candles. I played around with it for a while and making my own which is fun but no doubt a passion for them. I love the lighting it creates, the soft glow, the ambience. Have never liked harsh lighting. I don't quite know where this passion came from. Do know it started very young though. Burnt my dresser down when I was maybe 10 or 11. My guinea pigs at that time, poor things (you know me and my animal thing) were freaking out when the dresser went up in flames. But their freaking out warned everyone in the house that some crazy ass shit was going on in my room. :)

I'm not 100 percent sure of this but have you thought about furthering your "education" through the Air Force in the area that you specialize in?

I currently have two associates: Electronic Technologies & Instructor of Technology and Military Sciences. I plan on getting a bachelors in the first, and then possibly a masters in humanities (a base foundation for writing through studies in philosophy, psychology, sociology, etc.) If I get another gig in instructing next year, I might try for a bachelors in teaching. I absolutely loved that job.

Since you've spent so much time in the Air Force, and I may be misunderstanding because of so many posts up to this point, do you have the intentions of leaving the Air Force? If you've been in for so long, I would think you would have the intentions of staying in until retirement. Unless, you are close to retiring anyway which I don't think because I've looked at your profile and you're the same age I am or close to it. But then again????

The forensic aspect of it though for me in psychology deals with profiling -- which would be going over crime scene photos, being present at the crime scene, the evidence, how methodical they are, what they do and how it is done, what they take -- you basically get into the head of the seriel killer, you create the potential profile of exactly who you are looking for, possible age, career, flamboyant, charismatic, and social or withdrawn and isolated, their interests and where you may find them and so forth. It's just basically tracking them down -- giving the profile to authorities on where to begin and they take it from there but you still are involved with the case until the conclusion of it.

That would be a kickass job. I'm sure it would come with a lot of emotional baggage to see what depths some humans will go to, but knowing that you had a hand in putting them away for good...that would be the balance.

Yeah, no doubt. I've read some of this in regards to different serial killers (Richard Ramirez did some way out there wow freaky things) and eek and yikes as to what some of these people did and do. It's extremely disturbing to say the least. It's an interesting area for me. But when it comes down to it and actually pursuing it, I'm not sure how I would be able to do some of it. Of course, you get to know the killer themselves but you also become involved with the victim to an extent. If I was to pursue any given area of my interests thought, it would be in medicine and perhaps seismology above all other interests. Of course, Photography!!!

It was ME in the casket. I looked exactly like her.

I had a similar occurrence, although in a different manner.

Shane:

I have to say that your experience would have left me shaken for days!

Most definitely. But amazing everything that pursued thereafter!!! There's much more to the story and what was talked about that night. It's no doubt a trip.

Phil:

I can completely see that, Angie. Maybe it would remind you of happy days when you were young - also combined with seeing something pretty taking shape that you are responsible for?

Yes, it does remind me of happy days with her. She was a trippy lady and fun to be around. I was very close with both of my grandmothers, especially my dad's mom towards the end. Some absolutely amazing profound shit going on with the latter and still to this day BLOWS me away. Wow is all I can say. Her death was a huge turning point in my life in regards to my father and family. I'll never forget that day. EVER Although revealing, it was also some freaky freaky stuff. Even my dad and the others at the funeral parlor said that I literally turned ghost white, it took my breath away, looking down at her in the casket and what I saw and what it meant to me and my father. WOW. I remember taking a step back and being absolutely floored and my sister coming up to me and placing her hand on my chest wanting to feel my heart beating and she said, "I need to make sure you're alive, you look exactly like her." This had many meanings to it because everyone had noticed. But primary was that it confirmed that my father truly was my father. There had always been doubt and something that was made fun of for the longest time, jokingly, no biggie. It didn't matter if he was my biological father. He was the man that was in my life as a child and that was that. Everyone at the parlor had already seen my grandmother in the casket and there were so many whispers throughout the room. Some had approached me and started to talk to me, in a round about way telling me not to go over to the casket. My dad was going to say something but ultimately chose not to.

I remember finally walking up and I could see my dad off to the side watching me because he knew already what I was to see. I got to the casket and looked down and literally took my breath away. It was ME in the casket. I looked exactly like her. It was hard to tell for so many years because she was a heavy set woman but cancer stripped her down to being very very thin. I'm a pretty petite person. My heaviest was about 140 or so but not heavy heavy. I'm 5 foot 7. I'm 125 now and about the same weight I was when I saw her in the casket. Seeing her there, our facial structure, lips, everything was the fucking same, forehead, spacial set between the eyes, nose. I remember taking a step back and thinking to myself, "My god, my father is truly my father. This is the last thing that my grandmother did for me and that was to show me that I am truly hers." I looked over at my dad and he was in tears. And then my uncle whom I hadn't seen in 20 years showed up unexpectedly and came up to me where I was sitting next to my father at the very front of the room and he addressed me as my sister (my sister and dad are the same in so many ways but always the doubt with me) My uncle on my mom's side saw my grandmother in the casket and he then addressed me as though I was my sister so this was even more of a blow to me and absorbing all that happened.

After it was over, I left. They were going to go after me. It was so much for me and my entire family to take in and what happened at the parlor. But my dad and stepmom stopped everyone and my dad said, "Let her go. She's been through a lot today and needs to absorb it all and to think." I wandered in the country pouring down rain that night for many many hours, thinking about everything. When I finally came back to the hotel soaking wet, I went into the room where my dad and stepmom were and sat at the edge of the bed and a long very profound convo took place between myself and my dad. Some amazing stuff. Honestly, makes me teary eyed now thinking about it. Such a huge tragedy but so many beautiful things came from it. There's so much more to this story but there it is.

When I was a kid I had several things I'd like to experience again: certain children's books and, -- here's something that would be silly to anyone else -- from when we lived in Japan, a five inch tall fierce tin gorilla. When you shot rubber tipped darts at it, and hit the center ring, its little red eyes would light up, it would lift its arms up to the sky and fill the house with a shriek for ten or twenty seconds. I could spend hours lying on the carpet with that thing and, if they still made them, I'd cross the Sahara to have one again. If I throw a party, instead of an opening prayer, I'd like to have everyone take a turn and shoot at the gorilla and have it raise its arms and scream to whatever gods might be. Once we got all the darts out of the fruit salad we could start to eat. I'm a big believer in ceremony.

I don't think I have ever seen this toy, but perhaps as it triggers a vague memory of such a gorilla. LOL It's funny because when I was very very young I used to read Judy Bloom books. Books for growing girls if you will. There was a book of hers - don't remember the name now - but there was a technique that the characters would do and that was to put your hands together in front of you with your elbows out and pressing your hands together to work the muscles in the chest and then you chant "We must, we must, we must increase our bust." LOL We all did it. I think I may have done it way too much. LMAO Oh, god, that's just soooo funny to me and makes smile and laugh now. Talk about a bit of an emotional roller coaster with this posting from what happened with my grandma and getting teary eyed writing about it and remembering it to now and then laughing and smiling because of the chant we all girls did because of that book!!!!! *sighing* Amazing life, no doubt.

How long have you been in the air force? What exactly is it that you do?

I enlisted back in '93. I had been accepted twice to University of Nebraska Lincoln to their English program. Full-time jobs were nowhere to be found, and because of a paperwork error I was unable to get a loan to go there. My dreams were dashed. And so, into the Air Force I went.

The work I do for the Air Force is communications, troubleshooting specifically. I started in tactical comm, then moved to long-haul voice and data circuits, and thankfully landed in networking. I've been doing that since '97 and haven't looked back. I've built deployed networks and did a four-year stint as an instructor teaching protocol analysis (very geeky stuff...especially when you can read data packets in hex!). For the past couple years, I've been the computer guy for my directorate, so now I'm somewhat computer savvy. I came into this job so that I'd have a marketable trade that I could always lean on. In 3 or so years, I'll retire and try to find work or make my own. Somewhere in there, I'll set down roots and get to writing.

Interesting subject about forensics! I love those types of shows. Dr. G is the bomb and I appreciate her all the more since she is a human troubleshooter

~ Shane

Wow, that sucks about the whole schooling deal but love the alternative. I thought very seriously when going into college about joining the reserves and getting my schooling paid that way but I ultimately decided not to.

I'm not 100 percent sure of this but have you thought about furthering your "education" through the Air Force in the area that you specialize in?

So when you do get out, you'll have that degree, etc. That's also something similar to one of the reasons I chose to be a court reporter -- what other areas can I go into with that education? To my surprise, there's quite a bit of opps that it opens up for me. My extensive law background opens up opps in the legal field if I choose to stop working as a court reporter. The medical background is the same and can take a detour into this area. English is extensive so can always work in this arena, editor, etc. Many different areas. I had an opp to work for the US Embassy I think in France but they were looking for someone that wasn't married at that time and without a kid. At that time it was offered to me, my situation fit both of those situations. Plus don't think I would do well being away from my son so much.

I absolutely enjoy forensics very much, especially involving medicine!! The forensic aspect of it though for me in psychology deals with profiling -- which would be going over crime scene photos, being present at the crime scene, the evidence, how methodical they are, what they do and how it is done, what they take -- you basically get into the head of the seriel killer, you create the potential profile of exactly who you are looking for, possible age, career, flamboyant, charismatic, and social or withdrawn and isolated, their interests and where you may find them and so forth. It's just basically tracking them down -- giving the profile to authorities on where to begin and they take it from there but you still are involved with the case until the conclusion of it.

A bit morbid aspect and if I should write about this but my fascination with these aspects is when serial killer Richard Ramirez back in the 80s was in my neighborhood, killed a lady down the street from us. Unsettling knowing that it could have been your house instead of hers. He killed another person and dumped her body behind the building where my mom had worked at that time. Everybody was on extreme edge like you wouldn't believe. That started my fascination with these types of people and what makes them tick and why.

Ninth:

I made a sound suggestion about how to keep this thread from dying. It turns out to have worked, though I believe the contributions have been offered more in a spirit of pity than interest inspired by your original request. And so far you’ve been laudably congenial towards the offerings, I credit this as resulting from behavior modification achieved by yours truly. He shoots he scores! Goal for the Doctor, credit Jonathan with the assist. We’ll see how long it lasts.

Just to let you know, I didn't post out of pity. I posted out of interest, truly I did, and needing a bit of a detour from some things. It was just finding the time to post to this thread and choosing exactly what I want to reveal of how I came to be, my loves and passions, etc. Shane's post started it off great for me -- kinda sorta the ripple effect. How one "rock" if you will that is dropped into that pond or lake and then the waves that generate out from that one event and how others react to it. It's been a nice breather and change of pace for me from homefront stuff and work with this thread now. I'm working a lot and have some other things going, aftereffects from the party last weekend (which was absolutely AMAZING) and some things that happened, so this thread has been a nice detour if you will for now.

Well, these emoticons suck the big one. LOL I was going to say relax a bit, although I don't know the full nature of your dealings with Phil up to this point (not pleasant obviously) but wanted to give hugs and kisses emoticons but they're not working. Oh well!!! I guess xoxoxoxo !!!!! Relax and enjoy!!!!!

To make a quick clarification because I didn't make it clear enough in a prior post, the depo of the coroner was not on that "specific" case. It was the same coroner that did their autopsies but a different case. I was still in college when the whole freaky OJ thing went down.

Another passion and love I have are animals. I am a complete sucker when it comes to animals. I was always one of those kids so long ago that brought home stray cute, cuddly, and furry creatures!!!! LOL

Phil, it's funny that you ask the question that you did and it's truly so overly broad because there are so many loves and passions that I have as well as I am sure others, how I came to them and makes me who I am that stem from my childhood and throughout adulthood. I sit here and think about all the things that I have truly enjoyed and one strange one perhaps for others is that of beading. I have Cherokee Indian in me and this was something that my grandmother, now deceased unfortunately, had gotten me into when I was very young. She even gave me a name which I don't remember unfortunately. I stopped doing it but picked it up again in my 20s for quite a while but have since stopped. I've thought about taking it up again just as a hobby, nothing serious, etc., as it is quite fun and addicting to play around with.

Angie, there's a part of what you wrote that brought tears to my eyes: How you thought you were going to the principal's office because the teacher despised you, you would get an F. And instead the whole thing changed and they loved your paper. He'd apparently actually shown it to the principal because of how good it was? And they told you it was excellent and wanted to help you and put you in a better school.

Sometimes the sunlight comes and you weren't even expecting it.

Yes, you are most correct. Thank you, wasn't expecting that from you!!!! Yes, he did show it to the principal. But other areas obviously intervened and I shut them down, in some ways to protect myself. But I did a lot of growing in a short amount of time, moving on, finding out who I was and staying true to myself!!!!!!!!!!!! The thing about it was I was taught to live that way until I finally changed it. When I finally left home and being extremely happy, I set many goals for myself. My determination was fierce. I went back to highschool and finished 4 years in about 6 months and valedictorian on top of it. During this time, I worked a full time job and worked my butt off and saving as much of my money as I could. After getting out of highschool, I took a small break of about two months and then went straight into college. Had many interests but was looking for something that would be relatively quick and would make me good money and I could be self-employed and able to set my own hours so to speak and when I wanted to work, plus I needed to support myself. I ultimately went through the money that I had saved and ultimately took school loans to pay for the remainder of my college days.

How about some more info about yourself? What other passions and loves do you have? What makes you tick so to speak?

Phil and Angie,

Thanks!

Angie, are you still pursuing science? Or are you attacking your passion through photography? Or perhaps science is more of a hobby, hitting all spectrums at whims? I tend to do the latter...looking stuff up as I read or view something and wish to learn more about it.

Sucks how schools build these walls, and then some teachers try to bring them down around non-conformists.

And too bad about your diaries! That would make an interesting read...after you did the editing, of course...haha!

~ Shane

I still heavily pursue science but in private. Honestly, I've thought very very seriously about going back to college and taking up my passion in many different areas, medicine being a HUGE aspect, seismology, paleontology, archeology, geology, phychology with a specialty in forensics; ie, serial killers. Please don't ask, it's an interesting subject no doubt. Took the deposition of the coroner that did the autopsies on Ron and Nicole I thing is their name. Eek, a bit freaky dicky going into a morgue into the back area where they had on display many many pictures of victims of serial killers, etc., etc. The psychological aspects are intriguing to say the least. Sciences overall, I enjoy very much. Photography is also another HUGE passion of mine but unfortunately haven't had much time for it but hoping to in the near future. I have two sites...one stripped down because I got tired of people ripping off my work and then another one that I started to put together and to sell my work but got sidetracked when I started to have problems on the homefront and had to put it on the backburner for now and the site is in shambles right now, not organized, etc., and just haven't had much time to go through it; plus it makes me miss it too much going through it. But no biggie.

I do have a rather interesting sociological experiment/observation coming up -- well, human sexuality -- sex and women and their preferences, reactions to it, the ripple effect, and so forth. As you know, this is another huge area of interest to me..human sexuality. I've always been able to get people to open up to me and telling me things they normally wouldn't admit to. BUT not only am I setting it up for them, I'm mainly doing it for myself and to have a bit of fun. I set the word out about taking the GIRLS out and possibly two gay men to a BDSM club out here in Hollywood. So far but sure more will be there once word gets out more, I've been able to get 15 very very enthusiastic girls who haven't delved into this aspect of sexuality that are wanting to go, their wanting to go sooner rather than later. They are most intrigued to say the least which already helps to draw some concrete conclusions!!!!!! But I'll see what happens when they are exposed to it and seeing it firsthand and their understanding of it. But can't do it for a couple more weeks to come. I'll drink a bit but no doubt will be observing them quite a bit, body language, how they respond to certain visual stimuli!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We'll see what happens though when they are there but no doubt for my edification!!!!!!!!!! It's not a "sex" club. It's a night club specializing in BDSM so a lot will be going on, dancing, costumes or leather corsets, outfits, etc., and will be most interesting to see who giggles and becomes embarassed but unable to look away versus those that are more overt in their likes and dislikes, aggressive men, D/s (Domination and submission), SM (Sadomasochism) B/D (Bondage and Discipline)!!!! ;) I'll be taking a few of them to The Crypt out in Long Beach soon which is a store specializing in nothing but BDSM. One has already expressed an interest in a Cat O Nine. LOL Nothing like introductions.....LOL But my curiousity is too great at this point.

How long have you been in the air force? What exactly is it that you do?

Truly hoping someone other than us will post something. I would be most interested to hear what makes everyone tick so to speak!!!!!

I get the impression that most on here feel like they've walked into a closet and are now assholes to elbows in each other's business...haha!

Well, I will put a little something on here because I feel I'm good company, despite all the unique personality quirks we find

I remember hating school. Not for the teachers or the friends...I genuinely liked them. It was the schedule and the rules and getting up early in the morning. I liked learning, but didn't feel attached to any one particular subject. That changed for me my sophomore year in HS. Up until that time, I did well but didn't excel.

I remember hating English. Again, the rules. So many little nuances involved and I've always had a hard time grasping grammar (still do). When I walked in my first day to English we learned that a substitute was going to fill in for the entire year due to the primary teacher having an ill daughter that was going to require full-time attention (she got well, so I hear). Ms. Lind was our substitute. Short in stature with a medium build, she was a bit intimidating. She started out classes given the usual exercises and assignments. Then she gave us a particular one that changed the course of my life: write a short story.

I was always into sci-fi and fantasy. So I started brainstorming a bit and figured I'd write an alien invasionesque story. But I had a twist...show the invasion from their perspective, as if we were passengers watching the drama unfold, not knowing it was Earth the aliens were coming to. The title is Metamorphs of Oblivion. As a nomadic race, they are scavengers of the cosmos. Scouring galaxies for millenia, they have become adept at changing their biologies to suit their needs for hunting and gathering resources after planetfall.

As I continued writing, the ideas flowed and when it came time to turn in my assignment, I knew I was going to get a bad grade. I apologized to Ms. Lind. When asked why, I replied "I don't have a short story. Instead, I have one chapter." I handed over my 30-page text and sat down.

After a couple of days, I was suprised to see an A+ on the top right corner of my work. She pulled me aside after class and told me I had the makings of a writer. Almost every day from that one through the end of my senior year, I sat in the library during my study halls to write. And ever since, I've wanted to become a novelist. That is my one true love...writing. I will pursue it once I retire from the Air Force...when I have ample time.

~ Shane

I like the story. Reminds me a bit of an experience I had in the 8th grade but I'll digress for a bit first. I was never much of a writer, although had a diary that I wrote in every night in detail throughout my childhood, teenage, and partial into my 20s. Talk about some serious space taken up with all of it and storage. I, at times reveled in going through them and reliving parts of my life, choosing a date from so many years ago and reading about what exactly I was doing and experiencing on that date, observing how much I was growing up, my conclusions, etc. But unfortunately, I threw them away. I have very very few regrets in my life and this one is by far my largest regret ever. It would have made for one hell of a memoir if you will....the woman that kept a running diary every single day for 20 years and possibly beyond and what was going on in my life, boyfriends, encounters, drama, and so forth. My intentions when I was writing in them heavily was for them to be buried with me when I passed. I've thought about taking it up again but prying eyes are always around the corner. I can do it in shorthand, as it is my own encrypted writing, but transcribing it would be one hell of a chore. Despite this and documenting my life for many years, writing for others really was never my thing.

BUT you know, thinking more about this and here within the last 3 or 4 weeks, someone has gotten me a bit interested in writing in other arenas though but anyway!!!!

At any rate, I was a closet encyclopedic junkie that loved science of all kinds, my passions and loves still to this day. I always hid my intelligence because it was frowned upon by so many and still is unfortunately. Long road travelled and had my shining moments when it came to what I loved so much and then finally said screw it, it's who I am and no shame in hiding it.

In the 8th grade, science class, although despised my pervert teacher and always told me I was a bimbo and wouldn't amount to anything, blah, blah, blah, WHATEVER, and at one point asked me if my boobs had names (asshole), he introduced a subject for each student to write about at our choosing. I chose to write a piece about the environment, long term effects, the ecosystem, etc., etc. I kept it very concise and to the point. A lot of it I already knew from observations as well as because of my addiction to being a closet encylopedic junkie (literally). I turned the paper in. It was about 10 pages long.

Of course, at that time, I was already beginning to party hard. I despised the school environment so much and the cliques that were there, the group thinking, and so forth. I had attendance problems even then. I very much enjoyed doing things on MY TIME and not that of others and their demands. Not much parental supervision either so did a lot of crazy shit and wayward with no structure, no certainty. When I turned this paper in, I knew it was a great paper because it encompassed one of my passions. I figured he would give me an F because he despised me so much. He despised me even more because I was very very vocal with my opinions and views even in junior high. Got kicked out of more than my share of class rooms because the teachers didn't like the defiance and wouldn't bow to their attempting to strip away my right to freedom of speech.

Two weeks later after turning my paper in, my teacher told me that I had to go to the principal's office. I thought, "What is it now? What else did I do?" I got to the principal's office and she started to talk to me and telling me that they've seen a side of me they had never seen before. I was like, "What the hell are you talking about?" She kept talking a bit and going on how they, my teacher, counselor, admins, (the school), wanted to take me out of "that" school and transfer me into another school down the street. At this point, she took out the paper I had written from my science class. She said, "We've gone over this paper and you have a gift, a gift that can't be ignored. We want to send you to the school down the street for gifted kids. There's a tremendous amount of potential here." I was floored at what I heard. Always, at that time, hiding my intelligence for so long but give me what I love and my passion and it consumes me. BUT I started to think and became fearful of all things because I didn't want to be "labeled" as a nerd, a geek, especially in having to deal with my family because of it. At that time, I was a follower and trying to find who I truly was, what was right and what was wrong for me. She then told me, "In order for us to make this move, we have to inform your parents and get their permission." At that point, I freaked because of how my parents were, especially my father and my sister as well. Whole other story here. She then asked me if it would be okay with me and if I would be willing to go to this other school and for them to inform my parents so they could get the transfer papers going. I couldn't get out of my head at what might possibly go down at home because of it so I told her no. I said thank you and walked out and went back to my class. My destructive path continued until I was about 16 or 17 y/o and dropping out of high school three times before finally seeing what was happening and why. Not just isolated to the school environment.

It's funny because everyone remembers to a degree who their teachers were. For me, I remember who they were but only remember one teacher's name and that was Mr. Peralta. Oh, wait, and Mrs. Sweeney. She was extremely religious and I used God's name in vain in her presence in front of the entire classroom which ticked her off. I didn't believe in God at that time anyway. An argument ensued and I was permanently kicked out of her class. I was in the 9th grade then. You could say I was a bit of a handful growing up and very few teachers liked me. But hey, oh well!!!!!!!

I love science and always will, love to learn, love intelligence, love things outside of the box if you will. What I am most passionate about and love the most though is learning from my own firsthand knowledge, understanding, and experience!!!!!! I'm rather stubborn this way to say the least.

*sighing* Wow, all the fighting....LOL...makes my little drama on the homefront -- have to say kinda nice drama (don't read too much into it because it's probably not what YA'LL are thinking of -- kinda refreshing!!!!!! So many choices and decisions to make -- selfish ones at that and what ta do!!!! I don't frequent OL enough and read enough of all the posts to know how Phil is but DAYAMMM, I take it YA'LL don't like him too much. Yikes. Such the nature of forums. I was thinking about posting something to this thread and who I am, how I came to be, my passions and loves but YIKES now. LOL Wow....QUICK detour over to the other more interesting and fun threads!!! LOL ;) Soon enough!!!!

I watched the whole thing.

It held my attention all the way through, but I still don't like lawyers.

(I gotta say, though, the guy's pretty damn good... Better than I imagine Valliant to be... And what's with the judge who can't speak English? If I am not mistaken, her general attitude seemed to favor Mr. Victor over the state's attorney. Maybe she has a thing for...?... Dayaamm! Now see? There I go again!... Lawyers always seem do that to me...)

Michael

ROFLMAO.... It was quite riveting, wasn't it? There's not much that can break my focus and attention ......LOL