seymourblogger

Well, maybe you should exit OL before you die crazy in an asylum. You are already over halfway there, and you probably should not push your luck. Ghs Bye. WHAT? Bye? She actually exited, just because you told her to? Goshdurn you George, you druv her off afore the rest of us could get a good tasty bite out of her. Dang it. Yup.

Well, maybe you should exit OL before you die crazy in an asylum. You are already over halfway there, and you probably should not push your luck. Ghs Bye. Really? Phil's still here! Xray too! It all goes back to calling George out on Foucault. I warned you. --BrantTell me why. Why would he care. He likes the sport. Like hunting humans on a private island. He knows the terrain, he's got the dogs and the guns. Run, run, run. --Brant if you don't know why you're a guest here, you'll soon find out. OL Island Ooooooooohhhhhhh! Dangerous and fun. Risky business eh.

Oh I just loved the first Dune book. All the rest went downhill. I could tell he was using a word processor on them. I have always been afraid to read it again, that I wouldn't like it so much, that I would be critical of it.

Well, maybe you should exit OL before you die crazy in an asylum. You are already over halfway there, and you probably should not push your luck. Ghs Bye. Really? Phil's still here! Xray too! It all goes back to calling George out on Foucault. I warned you. --BrantTell me why. Why would he care.

Well, maybe you should exit OL before you die crazy in an asylum. You are already over halfway there, and you probably should not push your luck. Ghs Bye.

Orthodox Hebrews hold Saturday sacred. They do not work or use electricity from sun up to sun down. Or any utilities. (I wonder if they turn their heat off in the winter or the air-con in the summer.)Are you gonna try to get one of them to help you start your car or change a tire. Try explaining that it won't matter if they do. How about the Jews in the concentration camps that were starving, observing fasting on holy days. Doesn't make any sense. The secular orders and the sacred orders are not just between countries or cultures.Do you really not understand the philosophical point I am making about relativism? Have you never studied philosophy or the philosophy of the social sciences at all? Can you really be that dense? Ghs Of course I do. Does that mean I have to agree with how you spin it?

It is clear what you say does. It clears you of any responsibility to deal seriously with ideas. Ghs It is clear what you say does. It clears you of any responsibility to deal seriously with ideas. Ghs Why should we believe Foucault is not "people" either? Of course it applies to him. He is acutely aware of this. What he has said has done a lot. Please don't tell me you are really worried about all these poor Arab women with their cut clits and draped faces. You don't give a snit for their clits.

It is clear what you say does. It clears you of any responsibility to deal seriously with ideas. Ghs Seriously bah as far as you are concerned. You just want to fight. I don't mind. I like to duel too. Keep it up. Yeh that's probably what's going on, it keeps it up. Testosterone parade here.

Yes. Islamic countries are within the Sacred Order not the Order of Production, not a Secular order. You cannot judge them from within ours, tempting as that may be. Your division between Sacred and Secular Orders merely reflects the inherent bias and warped perspective of your own culture and institutions, especially universities. You therefore cannot dub Islamic countries "Sacred Orders," however tempting that may be. Nor can you criticize westerners who judge Islamic cultures, however tempting that may be, because such criticisms are nothing more than a manifestation of your own cultural bias, as informed by Foucault. Or have you learned some magical way to transcend the limits of Foucault's vicious relativism and assess things objectively, without cultural bias? If you have, please fill the rest of us in on the secret. Ghs Gee I thought you could tell me since you are so free of cultural bias. Please tell me. I haven't criticized westerners. I feel the same as you do but it's like criticizing Catholics for having their kids confess sins at six years after confirmation. How are you gonna win that one?On the assumption that you did not understand my point, I will repeat it: How is your distinction between Sacred and Secular Orders anything other than yet another bit of cultural bias, a prejudice that you picked up from western academics, such as Foucault? In other words, it has no objective status whatsoever. Got it now, hon? Or do I need to make it even simpler for you? Ghs Orthodox Hebrews hold Saturday sacred. They do not work or use electricity from sun up to sun down. Or any utilities. (I wonder if they turn their heat off in the winter or the air-con in the summer.)Are you gonna try to get one of them to help you start your car or change a tire. Try explaining that it won't matter if they do. How about the Jews in the concentration camps that were starving, observing fasting on holy days. Doesn't make any sense. The secular orders and the sacred orders are not just between countries or cultures.

People know what they say. They frequently even know why they say what they say. But what they don't know is what they say does. - Michel Foucault

Well now that you have been suitably enlightened, can you see it. A rose is a rose is a rose. Theme is OK but it does not open any more information to you, it just labels what you have seen. There are no resonances except what is like it in theme or not like it in theme, but a Foucault reading allows you to see the power/knowledge/capital relation in action, in it dynamics rather than stasis. An object does not exist until and unless it is observed. - William Burroughs And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar -- as the saying goes in Freudian folklore. Do you seriously think that Rand somewhere backs up the quotation from Burroughs? Or is this the result of a "Foucault reading" that enables us to see Rand in "dynamics rather than stasis"? Ghs She does. Do I haffta go hunt for my quote link? Go to google Rand quotes and you will find it faster. Here I did it: “The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see.” ― Ayn Rand , The Fountainhead google/goodreads/quotes Do you know how difficult it was for Pasteur to get his ideas across when the Discourse pooh-poohed them? Or S...........to convince gentlemen doctors to wash their hands before delivering babies. What? Is he implying gentlemen have dirty hands? They ridiculed him, sent him out of the profession and he died crazy in an asylum. The Discourse kills.

Yes. Islamic countries are within the Sacred Order not the Order of Production, not a Secular order. You cannot judge them from within ours, tempting as that may be. Your division between Sacred and Secular Orders merely reflects the inherent bias and warped perspective of your own culture and institutions, especially universities. You therefore cannot dub Islamic countries "Sacred Orders," however tempting that may be. Nor can you criticize westerners who judge Islamic cultures, however tempting that may be, because such criticisms are nothing more than a manifestation of your own cultural bias, as informed by Foucault. Or have you learned some magical way to transcend the limits of Foucault's vicious relativism and assess things objectively, without cultural bias? If you have, please fill the rest of us in on the secret. GhsGee I thought you could tell me since you are so free of cultural bias. Please tell me. I haven't criticized westerners. I feel the same as you do but it's like criticizing Catholics for having their kids confess sins at six years after confirmation. How are you gonna win that one?

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Well spend some time contemplating and you may figure it out. Yeah, right. Your cryptic gems are so profound! My time would be better spent watching my hard drive defragment. You have not been on this list nearly long enough to play these cat-and-mouse games. I'm getting very close to writing you off as a troll, and I suspect others are as well. Either get serious or bug out. Ghs I tried being serious and you din't like that. Should I keep trying to go down that path in the maze to get the cheese when it isn't there and isn't going to be there? Shouldn't I try a different pathway? Jes askin'. Does this mean you will really be gone from my comments? I can hardly wait.Why are responding to your own posts? Are you engaged in some kind of Foucauldian self-dialogue? The answer to your question is: If you persist in troll-like behavior I will give up all hope of taking you seriously and probably ridicule you unmercifully. I'm good at that sort of thing. Just ask around. Ghs Oh good a duel! I can't wait!

As I understand it, Foucault's basic point was that it is inappropriate to judge Islamic culture -- including its horrendous treatment of women -- by Western standards. Correct? Ghs Yes. Islamic countries are within the Sacred Order not the Order of Production, not a Secular order. You cannot judge them from within ours, tempting as that may be. I presume you are talking about genital cutting among other things. Stoning because of adultery, etc. They are a culture that has a great fear of women. And women are the cornerstone of their culture /religion. Exchange and property. This is a total belief system. And I think you know about beliefs. You may suppress the behavior but you are not going to get rid of it. You may punish and try them as we do in the US, but thaat still is only going to suppress it, the belief will still be there. Maybe here after a few generations it will not happen. Ousmane Sembene's last film was on genital mutilation. He is a filmmaker, educated in France, from Somalia and has always done films on taboo subjects, exposing hypocrisy. It shows that other women in the village are the most adamant on the cutting, and the young girls want it as a ritual of feminine adulthood, otherwise they will not be marriageable and then what do they have if they cannot marry. It's complicated. Mothers often try to spare their daughters, but other women undermine them, grab their daughters and do it anyway against her wishes. Human rights belong to secular orders not sacred orders. Then why do they judge our culture? --Brant Whaaaat! What kind of question is that? How would I know the thousands of reasons they do. They do because they do, just as we judge them. A question well asked is one half the answer - Bacon Really if you ask questions like that you can never find out anything or know anything.

Well now that you have been suitably enlightened, can you see it. A rose is a rose is a rose. Theme is OK but it does not open any more information to you, it just labels what you have seen. There are no resonances except what is like it in theme or not like it in theme, but a Foucault reading allows you to see the power/knowledge/capital relation in action, in it dynamics rather than stasis. An object does not exist until and unless it is observed. - William Burroughs And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar -- as the saying goes in Freudian folklore. Do you seriously think that Rand somewhere backs up the quotation from Burroughs? Or is this the result of a "Foucault reading" that enables us to see Rand in "dynamics rather than stasis"? Ghs She does. Do I haffta go hunt for my quote link? Go to google Rand quotes and you will find it faster. Here I did it: “The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see.” ― Ayn Rand , The Fountainhead google/goodreads/quotes

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Well spend some time contemplating and you may figure it out. Yeah, right. Your cryptic gems are so profound! My time would be better spent watching my hard drive defragment. You have not been on this list nearly long enough to play these cat-and-mouse games. I'm getting very close to writing you off as a troll, and I suspect others are as well. Either get serious or bug out. Ghs I tried being serious and you din't like that. Should I keep trying to go down that path in the maze to get the cheese when it isn't there and isn't going to be there? Shouldn't I try a different pathway? Jes askin'. Does this mean you will really be gone from my comments? I can hardly wait.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Well spend some time contemplating and you may figure it out. Yeah, right. Your cryptic gems are so profound! My time would be better spent watching my hard drive defragment. You have not been on this list nearly long enough to play these cat-and-mouse games. I'm getting very close to writing you off as a troll, and I suspect others are as well. Either get serious or bug out. Ghs I tried being serious and you din't like that. Should I keep trying to go down that path in the maze to get the cheese when it isn't there and isn't going to be there? Shouldn't I try a different pathway? Jes askin'.

Suddenly I'm interested in seeing the video. I have Explaining Postmodernism: Skepticism and Socialism from Rousseau to Foucault by Stephen Hicks. I haven't read it yet. This recent barrage aspiring to be a discussion mght be a good prompt for me to crack it open. Michael You're funny and oppositional.

Suddenly I'm interested in seeing the video. I have Explaining Postmodernism: Skepticism and Socialism from Rousseau to Foucault by Stephen Hicks. I haven't read it yet. This recent barrage aspiring to be a discussion mght be a good prompt for me to crack it open. Michael Be my guest.

Seymourblogger, It's a good idea to start toning it down. Michael I didn't think that. Michael Then what did you think? Jes askin. I didn't think that. Michael Then what did you think? Jes askin. I didn't think that. Michael Then what did you think? Jes askin.

As I understand it, Foucault's basic point was that it is inappropriate to judge Islamic culture -- including its horrendous treatment of women -- by Western standards. Correct? Ghs Yes. Islamic countries are within the Sacred Order not the Order of Production, not a Secular order. You cannot judge them from within ours, tempting as that may be. I presume you are talking about genital cutting among other things. Stoning because of adultery, etc. They are a culture that has a great fear of women. And women are the cornerstone of their culture /religion. Exchange and property. This is a total belief system. And I think you know about beliefs. You may suppress the behavior but you are not going to get rid of it. You may punish and try them as we do in the US, but thaat still is only going to suppress it, the belief will still be there. Maybe here after a few generations it will not happen. Ousmane Sembene's last film was on genital mutilation. He is a filmmaker, educated in France, from Somalia and has always done films on taboo subjects, exposing hypocrisy. It shows that other women in the village are the most adamant on the cutting, and the young girls want it as a ritual of feminine adulthood, otherwise they will not be marriageable and then what do they have if they cannot marry. It's complicated. Mothers often try to spare their daughters, but other women undermine them, grab their daughters and do it anyway against her wishes. Human rights belong to secular orders not sacred orders.

I didn't think that. Michael Then what did you think? Jes askin.

Elsewhere I said try Thomas Mallon's A Book of One's Own http://www.amazon.co...27966557&sr=1-9 NOt exactly what you were asking for but it will do. Do not talk about your own sex life in a bio about someone else. Save that for your own. Or call it your own not The Passion of Ayn Rand. Glug. What an unfortunate choice of a title. And she was my teacher so I feel free saying what I want about her. Has anyone else here watched her and listened to her for two years straight. Hello.......bio Your rules (or Mallone's, haven't read him) are interesting. In part, technically, you are right in that Barbara's bio did incorporate part memoir, and she presented this honestly. Xray's evaluation was right, and yours was wrong. The book was insightful, it was beautifully written. Furthermore, it was as objective as she could make it, I think, and as well researched as it could have been, given the constraints the "heir to the Estate" put on materials and even people who could give information. I have read hundreds of biographies. Have you? I am fully qualified, although not by the Sorbonne, to read them and judge them as a reader. Are you? I don't agree she presented it honestly. The title was The Passion of Ayn Rand, so why did her agoraphobia and sex neuroses have to be included. For titilation? As I said, she incorporated memoir elements and presented them honestly. As a friend as well as a biographer she disclosed her own premises, which included her own circumstances. Her title was accurate. Well it was accurate for the book sales department for sure. Buy a book about Rand and get BB's psychic disorders. Hope that's not too far out of hand. I can take it back.

Seymourblogger, No. I was asking. I use the epistemological method of identify correctly in order to evaluate correctly. I go from the idea that how can you evaluate something when you don't know what it is? As I don't like to evaluate things I am in doubt about, I ask. There is a story behind why I have restrictions against gratuitous Branden-bashing on OL (a quite explicit "dominant discourse" to use your jargon--and it is one I will enforce). Michael Well then I really don't see how you could have even thought I was saying that BB did it on purpose. That would just be sloppy reading, and I don't want to think that either. So again, what part of it made you think that?

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Here is part 2 of a debate between Foucault and Chomsky. (The first part can also be seen on YouTube). At 2:55 in, Foucault cites Mao's distinction between a bourgeois human nature and a proletarian human nature. (No other source is cited by Foucault throughout the discussion.) This typical leftist claptrap is followed, near the end, by Foucault's summary of his idiotic relativism -- something he also hawks in the first part. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0SaqrxgJvw Foucault has always struck me as a caricature of an intellectual in a Woody Allen movie. Ghs "A pity," says Jane. Well spend some time contemplating and you may figure it out.