Dglgmut

On 1/3/2022 at 11:03 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Actually, even though I'm no scientist re evolution, genes, etc., from what I have read so far, individuals can evolve brainwise through neuroplasticity (where the mind changes the brain).

I think a lot of patterns exist at different levels of abstraction. The process of natural selection happens constantly in our own consciousness. We have thoughts bouncing around in our head all the time, apparently randomly, and a selection process happens somehow. Memetics is a social example.

15 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

ted 15 hours ago

18 hours ago, Dglgmut said:

The assumption really is that the majority must always be in the moral right. It's like a crossing of signals... somehow feeling safely in the crowd translates to being virtuous in their brains.

D,

I can see this in some contexts, but in general, at least from what I have studied, there is a lot more to it. Starting with human nature.

For instance, the idea of a superorganism as Howard Bloom goes into.

Also, crowd behavior working like hypnotic induction might have evolved as a survival mechanism during a phase of human evolution. This would go hand-in-hand with the idea that once something evolves in the human brain, it never goes away, even if it loses its usefulness or becomes detrimental. Other things just pile on top of it--modules so to speak. Then the brain works out how the modules interact.

Rather than make individual morality an either-or proposition with crowd morality, it's reasonable to wonder whether both can be present at the same time, especially seeing how human beings are both individuals and members of a species at the same time.

Michael

Yeah, I mashed together two separate thoughts there... The first observation is valuable, I think, while the other thought was a throwaway and about individual morality rather than the perceived morality of the majority.

On the perceived morality of majorities, I think it is a sort of intellectual bystander effect. I think people expect that surely there must be someone else policing the ideas and morality of popular culture. Surely the News wouldn't just lie, because there is a system in place to prevent that, or at least minimize it.

Curtis Yarvin has really hammered the point that to the Left, politics is purely performative. I think this is a good point. You see it everywhere, and, while some people here don't like me bringing gender into things, this again correlates with the transition to a more feminine society.

9 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Mass Formation Psychosis was the main topic in the video I posted here.

The following clip in the quoted post connects to it as well, in a way. The assumption that the "journalist" had that if Dr. Malone is speaking out, as a virologist, he must have some financial incentive. The assumption really is that the majority must always be in the moral right. It's like a crossing of signals... somehow feeling safely in the crowd translates to being virtuous in their brains.

3 hours ago, william.scherk said:

Here's my general thoughts: influenza is a respiratory infection, so what kinds of behaviours can slow the spread of respiratory infections?

-- short answer: masking, social distancing, restricting attendance at indoor affairs with strangers.  Etcetera.  Individual actions.

If this is true you would see flu cases directly correlate to COVID cases, on the basis that they spread the same way. When COVID cases rise, flu cases would also rise, and the inverse.

Lets compare the hospitalizations:

... and from

... couldn't find a graph anywhere. But here's a quote!

Quote

Severe Outcomes Influenza Surveillance

Provincial/Territorial Influenza Hospitalizations and Deaths

In week 01, no influenza-associated hospitalizations were reported by participating provinces and territories^{Footnote 2}. To date no influenza-associated hospitalizations were reported by participating provinces and territories.

Number of provinces and territories reporting in week 01: 9 out of 9

Footnote 2

Influenza-associated hospitalizations are reported by Alberta, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador, Northwest Territories, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and Yukon. Only hospitalizations that require intensive medical care are reported by Saskatchewan.

That's the first week of 2021.

Here's just cases, opposed to hospitalizations:

Wow! Looks like masks worked! (too bad they didn't for COVID during this same time period).

37 minutes ago, Marc said:

I think its good for Trump, so guilty as charged!

When playing chess, sometimes a strategy is a gambit and my fav of all time, a certain kid from Brooklyn with the initials BF had some very famous gambits, one I recall against Spasky and also the Evans gambit ( victory in 17 moves).

Now anyone watching these games live would not have understood perhaps but now these games and gambits are studied and revered to this day.

#nogroundgame

When you sacrifice your Queen, that may be good for you (lead to victory), but it's not good for the Queen...

10 hours ago, Mark said:

Trump: I came up with a vaccine, with three vaccines.  All are very very good.  Came up with three of them in less than nine months.  It was supposed to take five to 12 years.

This is so good, but not for Trump. Anyone who thinks this is good for Trump is crazy.

The "supposed to take five to 12 years" part is my favorite, because the left seeing that must be salivating at the opportunity to call Trump out on his typical hubris and self-aggrandizing. It was supposed to take at least five years, this idiot tried to make a vaccine in less than 9 months!?

Then there's the part about him losing favor with his base. Again, the left have to love that. But the part the left would not like, is if someone is smart enough to rub their face in the fact that the anti-left (not necessarily right) are not too attached to Trump... rather it is they who are obsessed. If people are willing to denounce Trump because of his negligence concerning the vaccine (and better still, invasive procedures in general), that puts the left in a very awkward position. Is it really their love of vaccines and Science that got them in this position to begin with? Is that their foundation? Or were the people elevating the authority of certain institutions and groups exploiting something else?

People don't cling to authority for no reason... And the reason recently has been that Trump supporters/the Right are irrational and dangerous. A public display of rationality, reason and integrity (in dumping Trump, but not for the reasons they want) would really damage the narrative that incensed the left at the core of the issue (the ultimate would still be if they could reconcile with their fathers, but that won't happen).

1 hour ago, Mark said:

Trump is digging himself in deep.  Candice Owens interviewed him 21 December 2021 at Mar-a-Lago resort.  The full interview is behind a paywall but here are two snippets:

Trump:  The [covid] vaccine is one of the greatest achievements of mankind.  We would have had a 1917— remember the Spanish Flu killed perhaps a hundred million people. Actually it ended the first world war because the soldiers were so—.  A lot of people don’t know that.  The soldiers got so sick, it was a terrible thing, there were vaccines, there were no anything.

I came up with a vaccine, with three vaccines.  All are very very good.  Came up with three of them in less than nine months.  It was supposed to take five to 12 years.
...
Interviewer:  More people have died under Covid this year ... under Joe Biden than under you, and more people took the vaccine this year, so people are questioning how—

Trump:  Oh no, the vaccines work but some people aren’t taking them.  The ones that get very sick and go to the hospital are the ones that don’t take their vaccine. 

I actually love this, because it would confuse the hell out of the left. I don't care if Trump is being truthful or not, whether he's smart or not... but this would make those pushing mandates to question what they believe.

On 12/21/2021 at 2:40 PM, Peter said:

Way to go President Trump. Follow what your doctor tells you.

Yes. Thank God doctors are so reliable!

20 hours ago, ThatGuy said:

The Vaccine Pushback Is Bad, But Wait for the Climate One

T.CO

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At some point, governments will start using more sticks than carrots to break our deadly dependence on fossil fuels. How will humanity...

 

This is a quote from that article:

Quote

In some ways, the rhetoric is reminiscent of the mantra of the pro-choice movement: “keep your laws off my body.” But it’s a misleading resemblance. Anti-vaxxers do have a choice and it’s not comparable to a back-alley abortion. They can quit their jobs.

It almost sounds like a joke it's so stupid.

5 minutes ago, Marc said:

Everything is Covid, people who fell off buildings, got hit by trucks or buses had Covid, all the hospital numbers are highly inflated

Deaths were obviously inflated. That's been said many times, but I don't remember hearing anything about hospitalizations.

Question (not sure if this has been answered here yet): Does anyone know if hospital patience who tested positive for COVID while in hospital, but not being originally admitted for COVID, were counted towards COVID hospitalizations? I have heard many times that hospitalizations are the best metric for measuring the effect of the virus on an area... but I can't believe that people who just happened to test positive while already in the hospital (especially considering there has been a higher chance of contracting the virus while in hospital), would be tracked differently than those who were admitted for COVID.

I don't know for sure, but if my feeling is correct, then even hospitalizations may be way over represented...

2 hours ago, ThatGuy said:

Remember when the media laughed at Trump's UV light suggestion? Pepperidge Farm remembers...

I saw this posted on social media when Trump originally made the suggestions:

I found it again here:

What Is The Use Of Ultraviolet Light?

UVPOD.NET

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Ultraviolet light, also known as UV light, is a kind of electromagnetic radiation that makes dark light banners shine, and is liable for tans...

Quote

While the introduction to UV light can prompt skin malignancy, some skin conditions can has dealt with utilizing UV light, as per Cancer Research UK. In a methodology called psoralen bright light treatment (PUVA), patients take medication or apply a cream to make their skin touchy to light. At that point, UV light is shining on the surface. PUVA is utilizing to treat lymphoma, skin inflammation, psoriasis, and vitiligo.

I am linking this because of the calibre of Curtis' readers, and even though they are generally big fans of his, this issue they cannot agree with him on.

These are the comments from his latest blog post that contained this inflammatory passage in particular:

Quote

But Science also created the vaccines, you say! No—the vaccines were created not by the meta-organization that is Science, but by scientists in the meta-organization that is Capitalism. Science grudgingly, after a year and a half of “development” ordained by itself, allowed them to be used. Science also did such a great job with its monopoly of the pursuit of knowledge that the inventor of MRNA was hounded out of her career (and now works for Capitalism). And Science’s headlock on the product cycle is strong enough that we only have very leaky, slightly dangerous first-generation vaccines. (Which I still recommend taking.)

And here is one of the illuminating comments:

Quote

Tina Dec 5   Just a lowly RN (who got fired last weekfor not getting vaccinated) weighing in here; you are staggeringly wrong about these scandalously dangerous vaccines. The carnage I witnessed in patient charts terrified me daily and led to my decision not to take the vax when my turn came. Not only that, I can tell you that the climate of absolute denial and refusal to connect the damage/symptoms to the vaccines has the character of a virtual trance-state that has gripped the medical community. I practically had to force one of my doctors to file a VAERS report on his patient whose catastrophic physical deterioration following vaccination was too blatant for even his near-total trance-state to ignore. This was the only VAERS report I am aware of from out of literally dozens of severe, crippling adverse events I was witness to. The VAERS data are massively underreported. Who knows by what precise factor. All attempts to escalate concerns to management were met with the same trance-like stare and the words “the vaccines are safe” Also can personally attest to the absolutely astonishing lockstep conformity among doctors in denying early treatments and refusing to even consider the many highly effective treatment protocols developed by their more courageous and innovative colleagues around the world. Literally refusing to even try anything that hadn’t been given a bureaucratic stamp of approval when the bureaucrats withholding the stamps are heavily funded by the guys making the big bucks from the vax. It’s just a sickening display of institutional corruption and cowardice all around. With treatment, covid plummets in significance to a serious misfortune that need not have perverted the fundamental values and deformed the lives of the citizens of any serious society. Sad!

Omicron and governance theater - by Curtis Yarvin

GRAYMIRROR.SUBSTACK.COM

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"In the 2020s, Science has killed more people than Hitler."

4 hours ago, Peter said:

Thanks. I see the distinction. A diagnosed Coronavirus sickness may be what brought someone to the ICU but a heart attack or lung disease may have been the "final cause.'  

You are just assuming that COVID brought them there and that your original interpretation of the numbers is basically right. A lot of people could have been in hospital for other reasons and been infected there because that is a prime place for it to spread. And as you have already heard, I'm sure, the policies for qualifying a COVID case included instances when a patient tested negative, but still had been out of the country, or around someone else who may have been carrying the virus--in other words, it was up to the doctors discretion as to whether it was plausible that the person died with COVID. And of course the incentive being huge monetary benefits for the hospital ($50,000 per COVID case in some cases:

HHS Announces Additional Distribution of Funds to Hospitals with High COVID-19 Admissions | AHA

WWW.AHA.ORG

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The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) today announced that it will distribute a second round of funding from the Public Health...

The way you are using surface level, government/media/corporate approved statistics could be used against other things you believe, yet you still use them...

Hopefully this is true and people start to believe it before there's a civil war in Austria or Germany or Australia...

Covid silver lining: 'Extremely mild' Omicron variant is rapidly exterminating much more deadly Delta coronavirus mutation

WWW.CITYAM.COM

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Excitement is growing among Coronavirus experts in Southern Africa and around the world as it increasingly seems that the new Omicron...

6 hours ago, Peter said:

I would prefer to not get sick. NO Body around here has died from getting the shot. None. However, there is a constantly rising death rate from Covid though it has slowed because more people are vaccinated. If you go to your doctor with all the anti vax stats you might have accumulated, they may say, "Then don't get the shot."  

If you don't want to get sick, why not try being healthy? Stop eating refined sugar and processed carbs/oils. Build/maintain a little bit of muscle. You will be fine...

4 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

You are basing your comment on a false foundation: that inconsistency will damage the press.

No, it's not that. It's that the press will choose either to continue their vaccine worship, or they will bite on Trump being a failure (in making a failed vaccine). Without Trump admitting he failed, they won't acknowledge that it's his vaccine, but if they do acknowledge it was his vaccine, that puts them in the position to switch the narrative on the safety and efficacy.

24 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

D,

That is exactly the point.

I love seeing people using their independent mind in the middle of cognitive dissonance. You didn't shy away from that point.

And, speaking of cognitive dissonance, if that is what you are feeling right now, check your premises.

Didn't Rand say (I paraphrase) whenever you see a contradiction in nature, check your premises and one of them will be false?

Your premise is that Trump is trying to persuade people to take the vax. Or that he can persuade them to to that.

I wasn't clear, because he is owning the vaxx, and I do think that is a good move regardless. But to say he owns it and it's good, that's not difficult for the media to deal with. They just have to act like he's claiming credit for things he didn't really do again.

But to claim credit for developing the vaxx AND admitting it is not great... Well now the media are being pulled in two directions. Mostly in the direction of "Trump admits he messed up." That, to me, is more "throwing sand in the fuel tank of the machine", than what he is currently doing. And it's more honest.

And as for my premise, that's not it. I don't think Trump is trying very hard to persuade anyone, but he is sending out a false message that does have health implications... especially for young people. My premise is that this is another example of Trump not allowing himself to be associated with anything negative, which is usually a good strategy for him. But this time the sand in the fuel tank would have been better.

1 hour ago, anthony said:

Desperation is setting in, I think. A convenient diversion was needed to distract most people from the obvious fact that vaccines are not doing their job to end the pandemic (apart from all else) - but - you WILL get one..

 

It's insane. They are talking about mandatory boosters every 9 months in Germany and in all Europe for travel. It's amazing how people have this idea of a "slippery slope fallacy" that they have been trained to associate with actual slippery slopes.

My question right now is how many vaccinated people who got it simply for the convenience, peer-pressure, threat of unemployment etc, are going to accept a booster? I can't imagine the numbers for a booster are as high as the original 2-doses, even if the same coercive actions are taken.

4 hours ago, Mark said:

How will persuading his friends and their children to take the vax, it’s good, make his critics look like fools in the end? 

Exactly... I don't see why he can't say that while he doesn't admit to mistakes he didn't make, in this case the vaccine turned out to be less safe and effective than was the goal. Saying "MY vaccine" and admitting that it's flawed puts the media into a weird spot where they've been praising the vaccine relentlessly, but they cannot deny that it was developed under Trump.

On 12/2/2021 at 8:01 PM, william.scherk said:

Read a couple or more or all quotes from Malone in the article and find out what he has to say about Kariko and how he views his departure from grad school and who fucked him over in the following years. Read the story from his wife.

The "quotes" in the article are all broken down into 5 word snippets. It's garbage journalism.

It's essentially a journalist attacking a scientist on the basis of science. Anyone interested in that is just looking for validation of their own opinions in a really pathetic way.

The left are giving medical advice through mediums like Bigbird, while criticizing celebrities who have shared their experiences and tried to frame that sharing as giving medical advice. When it is convenient they say listen to the experts, when it is convenient they allow non-experts to give medical advice.

If you don't have an allergy to this bullshit it's going to be a tough time to think clearly.

Donald J Trump on Gab: '' - Gab Social

GAB.COM

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Donald J Trump on Gab: 'America fell 340,000 jobs short of the very modest expectations set by economists. That’s because Joe Biden is...

Quote

America fell 340,000 jobs short of the very modest expectations set by economists. That’s because Joe Biden is a one trick pony, “Get the vaccine.” But no one trusts this administration. I developed the vaccine when everyone said it wasn’t possible, now without “Trump,” that’s their only solution. This administration is destroying America before our very eyes because there is no leadership. Besides my vaccine, this is the administration of no jobs and massive layoffs, high gas and energy prices, high crime, empty shelves, open borders, and a horrendous surrender and evacuation from Afghanistan. A lot of effort and money went into RIGGING the 2020 Presidential Election, only to destroy the Country. Was it worth it?

4 hours ago, william.scherk said:

Ask Doctor Malone ... from an article by Tom Bartlett at The Atlantic:

...

...and?

Dr. Malone was all over the Wikipedia page for mRNA vaccine technology before he spoke out against the current vaccines. We already know people don't like him. That article did admit he discovered the delivery system, being lipid particles, but it's just another journalist cowardly attacking someone with minimal facts and plenty of opinions and posturing.

And what does any of the stuff about Dr. Karikó have to do with Malone? Nobody is trying to credit Malone with her work...

I don't know what anyone could possibly take away from that article except feeling a connection with the author if they share the same enmity for Dr. Malone.

5 hours ago, Peter said:

From one of the articles listed by William: Development of a vaccine to combat COVID-19 has been of paramount importance since the onset of the pandemic [2]. The scope of this review focuses on the safety and efficacy of the Moderna and Pfizer/ BioNTech mRNA vaccines exclusively. The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine (BNT162b2) trial reported that the vaccine had 95 % efficacy [29]. The trial enlisted a total of 43,548 adult volunteers, with half of the participants receiving a placebo injection, and the other half receiving the actual vaccine. end quote

Data like this is why my VA doctors chose Pfizer. So . . . . are you convinced yet? Peter

That's a bullet point, not significant data at all. Here's a comment from another article in reference to that study:

Quote

The number of severe cases of Covid-19 (one in the vaccine group and nine in the placebo group) is too small to draw any conclusions about whether the rare cases that occur in vaccinated persons are actually more severe. For practical reasons, the investigators relied on trial participants to report symptoms and present for testing. Since reactogenicity was more common in vaccine recipients, it is possible that they were less inclined to believe that minor symptoms were due to Covid-19 and therefore less likely to refer themselves for testing. And some important data, such as the rate of asymptomatic disease (as measured by seroconversion to a viral nucleoprotein that is not a component of the vaccine), have not yet been reported.

But even if it was legitimately 95% effective, there are still many reasons to doubt its safety--or more precisely it's cost/benefit based on demographic. And the vaccine has been shown to illicit an antibody response; that is without question. However, antibodies alone are not how our immune system fights off pathogens. Again, there are reasons to question this vaccine in terms of how long that protection lasts in comparison to natural immunity which includes memory B cells.