theandresanchez

But despite these portrayals, Rand was fiercely committed to living.

Wouldn't it be something to feel what she did in all her passion and complexity--even if just for a moment?

Michael

If I am to surrender to death and pursue hedonism, ignoring the context of my existence, I imagine recreational drugs are more effective. And cheaper than anti-depressants+mood stabilizers+cognitive therapy.

As for those who believe in physical immortality being achieved one day, the Second Law of Thermodynamics should dampen their enthusiasm considerably. For how can humans believe in their immortality in view of what awaits the whole cosmos?

Existence invalidates that possibility. If the second law of thermodynamics could "kill" the universe, it would have done so by now, seeing as the universe has always existed. Do you assume something external to the universe brought it into life? There is nothing external to the universe, by definition.

As for the universe being boarded by non-existence (which is another way to say lack of existence), this statement assumes a number of things, not the least of which is that ours is the only universe.

Universe = the totality of everything that exists. There cannot be multiple universes by the very definition of the word.

It's not such a quip as you think. Being in a clinical depression is entirely premised on death, the depressed person has forgotten how to live, believes he does not deserve to live, and wishes only not to live because life is unbearable, constant mental torture.

There is a quote, I forget the source-

"Acute clinical depression is a disease which left untreated, is nearly always fatal."

It's somewhat amusing that such words are used. Those who do not suffer from depression seem to die just as often as those who do.

I can't resist a quip from a traditional Objectivist slant:

Death premise anyone?

Michael

No. Are you aware of rand's take on suicide?

I have come to the point of thinking there was no alternative but suicide, but at that moment my mind started shifting back and forth between despair and a deep need to hold on to hope. Apathy and anger have blocked suicidal ideation from becoming a suicide attempt. Fundamentaly I do not wish to die, I wish to live, and the thought of being driven to suicide actually made me angry at the universe. It is the sense that I cannot live that drives me to despair. The sense that I have no long term. That no virtue can save me.

My concern is not that there are negative aspects to my life that I do not know, in the immediate moment, how to deal with. My concern is that I don't really have the time to figure things out, even assuming they can be figured out, that life is fundamentaly outside of my control. I may work hard to put myself in a "sweet spot" so to speak, but I'll be dragged out of it and into the abyss, where I'll be chained forever, with no way out.

That's all very touching, but welcome to the human race. You could get mowed down tomorrow. You have The Fear. This is a classic situation, nothing more, nothing less. It Goes With The Territory<tm>.

That's exactly the problem.

Either way, you wake up in the morning and that sun is gong to be up, right?

See above.

For the record, I have been to a doctor recently. He asked for some tests and gave me some meds. I have the impression that this is futile, but I'm willing to be proven wrong.

Andre, have you already tried out the medication the doctor gave you?

No, it is sitting quietly in my bag. I am hesitant to start taking them.

Gee, wouldn't it be nice if human beings understood why life is such a crock of shit and had a solution for each and every problem that really, really worked? Hey! Let's pretend we do have that understanding and those solutions!

My concern is not that there are negative aspects to my life that I do not know, in the immediate moment, how to deal with. My concern is that I don't really have the time to figure things out, even assuming they can be figured out, that life is fundamentaly outside of my control. I may work hard to put myself in a "sweet spot" so to speak, but I'll be dragged out of it and into the abyss, where I'll be chained forever, with no way out.

Are there any depression/mental health problems in your immediate family?

From my father's side, there is nothing obvious, though everyone is obese and seems somewhat gloomy, they are probably considered to be within the "normal" range. From my mother's side, my half-sister is diagnosed as bipolar and has a wreck of a life. My grandmother suffered from severe depression for several years (even being afraid to leave the house), but she had a difficult life, went through abuse, wars and revolutions. My uncle shows the behavior of a classic bipolar, though this is not an official publicly known diagnosis. Everyone in the family seems somewhat unstable, though it is hard to say exactly in what way and to what degree it is a "mental health problem" or a personality trait.

I got the same kind of self-righteous, pure hatred that you are getting now. Don't try to tell me that Objectivists are benevolent.

I didn't perceive any hatred.

I'm sending you my Facebook page.

I don't really use Facebook, but I guess I can get my account back up.

Now, you can't help laughing when you see stuff like this, right? I mean, really. Step One: slap a smile on your face or we will kill you. Step Two: repeat step one, as needed--lather, rinse, repeat.

Thank you. I have tried humour and fiction in general. I have also tried hiding from the world and playing games instead. I have tried exercise and music. I have tried all sorts of pleasurable activities, I have tried immersing myself in work projects. The pleasure or activity can be distracting and "fun" for a short time, but it wears off, and it can start to feel painful. I feel the pressure of aging, this dual sense of urgency to live life to the fullest, and futility in trying.

To train oneself out of unnecessary and therefore destructive negative thinking, one might make a sign, even frame and hang it in one's home, reminding one of that task. For instance: "Think up, not down"--"POS"--"NEG"--etc. That sort of thing.

--Brant

Unnecessary? Destructive? If I am doomed for death, such terms are meaningless. The option to live does not seem to be on the table.

First aid first, imo. If meds can help, let them.

For the record, I have been to a doctor recently. He asked for some tests and gave me some meds. I have the impression that this is futile, but I'm willing to be proven wrong.

So what if life eventually ends?

I don't understand this.

The main thing is that it will be OK.

Will it?

Hello,

I'm suffering from a fairly serious depression, and have been for many years (since mid childhood, as far as I can tell). It is very debilitating. I have looked for a solution, but did not find it. My study has reached the conclusion that the only means by which depression can be cured is by self-deception, something which psychology has termed "Terror Management", or the use of symbols to evade awareness of death and the anxiety and fear this brings. I am open minded in the sense that I don't simply assume things to be false, and other people to be wrong, but everyone who promises a solution seemed delusional upon closer inspection. I'm sure they have the capacity to bring others into their delusion, and in doing this give them a certain sense of relief, but that's not enough for me. And yes, that includes "doctors".

My problem as I see it is this: it seems to me that life is hopeless and action is futile. I cannot escape death. Rand is dead. I am a victim in a universe that is fundamentally hostile, I'm unsafe in the world. At first I was just concerned with politics, but as I grew older I realized this was not a "social" problem, but a metaphysical one.

I need help. From people who are actually rational, and won't simply tell me to "meditate" and "let go of the Ego" or any other such nonsense.