Reason Man

Science is mostly useful and abstract philosophy is mostly useless. That is a way of differentiating between the two. Bob Kolker This time the reason for delay in responding is that I had to come out of the shock of the above statement, particularly on this forum dedicated to Ayn Rand's PHILOSOPHY. Yeah, she cheated us by being "the Greatest Salesman of philosophy" and not selling any "useful science". The sub-forums on Metaphysics, Epistemology etc on this site are all useless! We have too much time to spare, so we indulge in wastage. I don't wish to continue this dialogue further over here, it has gone far beyond my limits, but some more details will be given in another post in response to one of Barbara Branden's post: Objectivism's Plague. The above dialogue was a good example of it. Reason Man

(Similar stuff about Aristotle's "bad habits" etc from previous posts not produced here.)Sorry for the delay in responding (slightly indisposed and busy with other urgent work in that state), but I think you have a problem differentiating between philosophy and particular sciences, and you expect Aristotle to deal with everything like steam-engines, rockets, DNA, nuclear bombs, oil etc. More than that there is a problem, not specific to this, but to several O’ist sites I look at, viz. reducing serious discussion to triviality by stretching arguments beyond limits. To explain this I will say that there is the photo of a lady on the left hand top corner of every page of this site, and above it words saying that in part the site is dedicated to her. I am quoting a few words from her book For the New Intellectual – Aristotle, the Father of Logic should be given the title of the world’s first intellectual, in the purest and noblest sense of the word. …. If we consider the fact that to this day everything that makes us civilized beings, every rational value that we possess – including the birth of science, the industrial revolution, the creation of US, even the structure of language – is the result of Aristotle’s influence, of the degree to which, explicitly or implicitly, men accepted his epistemological principles, men would have to say: never have so many owed so much to one man. Unquote. You will be able to infer similar things from Atlas Shrugged, her PS comments about it, etc. I am detailing the above words -- the degree to which, explicitly or implicitly, men accepted his epistemological principles – in my book THE ANGLO SAXON PROTESTANT REVOLUTION, A Review of the Anglo Saxons against 5000 years’ history of Mankind, justifying the title, giving the details etc therein. It is Aristotelian philosophy (i.e. Reason) that upholds truth, honesty, justice, and all other virtues necessary for civilized human life; to the extent it is eroded in a society, those values fade away from that society, and accordingly, societies rise and fall on the world stage. This statement is justified as the cause for the rise, and today the erosion, of the Anglo Saxons on the world stage for the last 400 years. In another post here, Immaculate Conceptions, Greybird discusses that Ayn Rand’s view about US history / 1787 Constitution etc was lop-sided or incomplete. I do not go into the details of Ayn Rand’s view alone about that topic, or the 1787 constitution only etc. But I detail on what their lives, their achievements etc meant – all of it based on Aristotle’s philosophy alone – and what kind of erosion has happened today because of the implicit fall of that philosophy as Ayn Rand said (and not to keep repeating about minor errors of Aristotle or his wrong views in specific sciences). I don’t think your arguments are correct from an O’ist point of view.

Thank you very much MSK -- the time spent and the efforts that you have taken etc in advising can be felt. I have already started loading the book on Kindle, and will publish after more study of the platform / completion of technicalities. Only problem is, the thing really is time-consuming, and my environment is a bit bad -- but I hope to finish off the matter soon. Thanks again and Best Regards.

.... both men, Bacon circa 1600 and Boyle in the next century, cited Aristotle as the source of all their problems. .....And Aristotle never said "A is A." He did state explicitly the law of the excluded middle, .... Because of the above comments, I am including 2 new paras between the first 2 paras of the sub-article "The Greatness of Aristotelian Philosophy -- the Guarantee of its Success". I had thought of including something to this effect initially, but at the same time also thought that the matter is obvious and excluded them -- now I am re-introducing them. (New paras are italicized). XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ..... The meaning of the term Aristotelian philosophy as used here is as follows: It would be incorrect to expect of Aristotle to develop knowledge that would solve all problems of humanity, leaving nothing for future generations to do. But he gave to mankind the base of a good metaphysics (a real, knowable world independent of the perceiver), and a method for development of knowledge via his laws of logic. Aristotelian philosophy, as referred to here, is a time-wise correct development of the philosophy of reason, applicable to any aspect of human concerns. Nor was Aristotle infallible, and there are several mistakes in his theories, particularly physics. But these are negligible in comparison to the core of his achievements. I am elucidating / emphasizing the above point because of my experiences during discussion of this sub-article on the Net. There is a very strong criticism of Aristotle’s theories – not merely from unknown academicians of every type, but from such men as Bacon, Galileo, Robert Boyle etc. Some part of this criticism is valid (and for a more detailed discussion of its interpretation see the sub-article “The Short-comings of ASP Revolution” ahead.) But I was surprised to see it voiced on web-sites that should consider Aristotle as their Founding Father. To repeat a sentence used just above, his mistakes are negligible in comparison to the core of his achievements. There is a famous painting known as “The School of Athens” by a Renaissance Master, Raphael, made in 1509-10 when they were rediscovering civilization via Aristotle (specifically brought in by Thomas Aquinas around 1250 for this very purpose after the moral fall of the Church). The central part of this painting is equally famous. It shows Plato and Aristotle arguing philosophy -- Plato points to the heavens, implying that this earth is semi-real, imperfect realm which man should strive to give up in exchange for the perfection of the heavens (which is also the basic philosophy of most religions); Aristotle on the other hand points towards the earth (the surroundings) as the true reality, as man’s real abode. I believe the word Metaphysics was specifically coined by him as the subject to be studied prior to physics – the answer to the question whether reality, this earth etc is real or no. This painting shows the essence of the difference between Plato (representing all irrationalists like religion, Heraclitus via communism etc) and Aristotle (it has been used by Ayn Rand for the cover of her book “Philosophy Who Needs It”). If this earth is unreal (or semi-real), unknowable, an ever-changing flux etc, then what were men (whether they be ordinary men, or geniuses like Bacon, Galileo and Boyle) to study? But that question is answered just ahead in this sub-article. The entire religious (and other irrational) poison against the ego, against human mind, oozes out of this base of Plato and other non-Aristotelians. (The main reason why Aristotle’s theories in physics continued to impede men of later years is totally different. It is the same reason why it took so many years for his name to percolate down to academicians though Aquinas brought it in around 1250 AD itself. It reached the common man much later. This is because evil irrationalists make full use of errors of big men to the extent they can – in this case, Church continued to have is hold over academics for a long period even after Renaissance. And having used it for their evil purposes, it is easy for them to point at the same person as the culprit. As shown in the discussion on “Advanced Civilizations of Ancient Times”, all ancient civilizations reached more or less the same level of knowledge, independent of each other, and then stagnated, as if waiting for some important piece of knowledge necessary for further progress – that piece of knowledge was Aristotle’s fundamental philosophy, his metaphysics and his logic (and even his ethics is very good contextual to his time, and generations of Englishmen were brought up on it to achieve what has been called here as the ASP Revolution.). It is because of Aristotle’s philosophy that western contribution to knowledge beyond what the “advanced civilizations of ancient times” reached, is 99.xx%. The most important differences in terms of basics, between the religious rules (which also includes Plato and his predecessors like Parmenides and Heraclites) versus the ASP Revolution are summarized below: While religion considers reality to be illusory, ever-changing, or otherwise unknowable, Aristotelians consider it to be firm, orderly and knowable. ......... XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX That sentence is in bold -- But I was surprised to see it voiced on web-sites that should consider Aristotle as their Founding Father. Though some have objected to it yet he is the only philosopher to whom Ayn Rand has acknowledged debt -- as seen even in the titles of parts of Atlas Shrugged, its body etc. You can also see the difference explained at the start of "For The New Intellectual", and so many other places of her writing where she called him as the Original Founding Father of the US. She says: We owe everything to him -- which is a fact! England came to prominence with him, other-wise what was England prior to 15th century? The language in which we are dealing presently was "third rate" then, with no social recognition. Generations of men brought up on Aristotelian metaphysics, logic and even ethics is what made England a world power, America a possibility. See more about this in the links provided by me -- there is an entire chapter "The Importance of Aristotle in Human Affairs" available in the links. Such matters as he did not use the words "A is A", or that so much of his physics was wrong, etc are too very minor.

Thanks a lot. OK -- but can you (or somebody) elucidate on it a bit further like who all to approach, 3 - 4 names in ascending or descending order etc? Authorhouse, Lulu and many others are advertising a lot, and its a bit confusing -- the best of your knowledge in good faith and nothing more, even whatever you have heard from your more reliable friends / acquaintances, means some lead at all instead of total darkness. Reason Man

Dear All, I have finished my book -- and hit upon the usual bigger problem, getting it published. The topic of the book is the current socio-political situation in western countries (focus on US), take-over of politics by irrationalists, and how to stem this slide. (Info is given in an article by me in Productivity - Member Writing Forum). The problem is: there are usually not enough readers for this kind of work in India, so no publisher will be interested in the economic risks involved. More importantly, this is a bit of a risky affair — it may land into the hands of politically undesirable persons and bring a vindictive backlash. English-speaking countries are a desirable choice — but there too, new-comers have to search for too long, have a long waiting period even after a publisher accepts, etc. So self-publishing is another alternative. Here again we have no information / prior experience of whom to rely on, etc. Money has to be sent by credit card, and if the publisher turns out to be bogus or even not up to his claims, I will have to accept the loss. I will be thankful if those members, who have any information about this issue, share it with me. I am particularly interested in self-publishing. Because of web-advertisements, I know a few people like Author-house, Lulu.com etc, but no idea whom to choose. I also hear that there is a body of people known as ‘literary agents’ in the US / UK (we have no such thing in India). Information about these would also be welcome. Thanks and regards,

Following is a continuation of my response-post to M S Kelly’s article “The Ayn Rand Love / Hate Myth – Part – 4” about the importance of history and the greatness of Greek civilization. You may also see that post on page 2 of MSK’s article – it includes quotes from Plato, J Adams, J Madison, T Jefferson and Ayn Rand – showing the necessity of studying history. It is also chapter no 4 of Release – 1 of my book awaiting acceptance by publishers, posted on this forum for discussion. Being a middle chapter, there may be some difficulty in understanding ideas explained in earlier part of the book. I shall give explanation with thanks to anybody who asks for it. For further details about “Fall due to Democracy”, please see at the end of this article. CHAPTER 4 THE ANGLO SAXON PROTESTANT REVOLUTION – PHASE OF ASCENT A. The Anglo Saxon Protestant (ASP) Revolution The Protestant Revolution started in Europe as protest against the above described rule of the Church, the Dark Ages. Aristotle’s philosophy, otherwise hated by irrationalists, got a prolonged chance of development because it was specifically inducted to justify Christianity after the 1000 year misrule of traditional Christian philosophy of unselfishness, non-egoism and brother-love. So its initial period of existence in Christian world was with basic contradictions about nature of universe, position of god, etc. This induction of Aristotelian Philosophy, though starting with a religious base, moved slowly but inexorably to reverse several tenets of Christianity. Some of the direct contributors were the leaders of the European Protestant movements. Some of the indirect contributors too were Europeans like Galileo (who claimed to be a devout Catholic, nevertheless giving strong impetus to the then Protestant demand of freedom of the mind, because of his life long fight with the Church). Point is that the Aristotelian philosophy of reason does not belong to any particular race like the Greeks or the ASPs, it is open to Man the Rational Being, whosoever amongst men chooses to achieve that state. But the ASPs have been relatively the most consistent practitioners of Aristotelian philosophy, of protecting freedom of mind (i.e. man’s freedom to use his own ego) and man’s right to his own life. (We will see ahead that though the Protestant movement itself started against Christian rule in Germany, the seeds of the fall of Aristotelianism were also sown in Germany – and Germany has contributed a lot to the backward movement. Similarly, even though the earliest contributors to Renaissance were Italians, in later years their contribution is not much; in fact the political rule in Italy shows a similar corruption and chaos as in undeveloped societies, including their role in the two world wars. As a society, the Spaniards are closer to the Italians, though having discovered ‘The New World’, while the French are in between these Europeans and the ASPs. (These are all different mixes of Semi Rational (SRS) Societies – and amongst them, see condition of Latin American societies.) Also, note one important sign of progress – The ASPs were free of dictators much prior to other Europeans – this is an important indicator of level of rationality in society, because if low on rationality, the society ends in dictatorial rule, and dictators have wrecked far more havoc on earth than democracy. While the ASP countries were stable democracies, the leading nations of Europe, France and Germany, were in dictatorial turmoil even in the 19th century (Germany continuing into 20th). Tocqueville, a well-known French thinker of 19th century, made special visit to the US (almost one year duration) to study “the most stable democracy of the time on earth!” The Europeans could perhaps have known vaguely, but could never have strongly imbibed or practiced the concept of “the inalienable rights of an individual”, which subdued the majority to the individual and which was the climax of the ASP Revolution. Based on the weaknesses of “Christian Democracy” described in this book, and actual history, it would not be wrong to infer that the Europeans would have most probably destroyed the Renaissance, had it not been for the achievements of the ASPs. Add to it the fact that the Industrial Revolution was mainly grown in England! As compared to Europeans, the Americans (mainly the English and German Protestants who migrated in protest against this state of affairs) have done much more for furthering mankind’s progress and civilization, and therefore the name, The Anglo Saxon Protestant Revolution. But beyond that, the reasons why it is not called as American Revolution are given ahead. Regarding the above nomenclature, “ASP Revolution”, I have been cautioned that it is racist. I have insisted to call it so for reasons explained in the book, particularly in the above paragraph and the sub-article on ‘Racism and Reverse Racism’. B. The Greatness of Aristotelian Philosophy – The Guarantee of its Success The meaning of the term Aristotelian philosophy as used here is as follows: It would be incorrect to expect of Aristotle to develop a philosophy that would solve all problems of humanity, leaving nothing for future generations to do. But he gave to mankind the base of a good metaphysics (a real, knowable world independent of the perceiver), and a method for development of knowledge via his laws of logic. Aristotelian philosophy, as referred to here, is a time-wise correct development of the philosophy of reason, applicable to any aspect of human concerns. Nor was Aristotle infallible, and there are several mistakes in his theories, particularly physics. But these are negligible in comparison to the core of his achievements. The most important differences in terms of basics, between the religious rules versus the ASP Revolution are summarized below: While religion considers reality to be illusory, ever-changing, or otherwise unknowable, Aristotelians consider it to be firm, orderly and knowable. Religion considers man to be a weakling, unable to individually combat the forces of nature, and therefore men should live collectively necessitating each to submit his individual ego in favor of the wisdom of society. Aristotelians consider man to be capable of every achievement if he strives correctly, each man’s ego being the means of achievement (i.e individualism) . Religion considers Ego to be the root of all evil, therefore to be annihilated and banished from earth if an ideal society is to be established. Aristotelians consider the rational exercise of the ego to be the root of a life of reason for man, and had come very close to the establishment of a perfect society in the 19th century, a totally New World far away from the Old one. Politically, Religion therefore established a rule based on the submission of the ego of the Ruled, thereby conferring unlimited powers to the Rulers. Total Freedom to ego and limitation of the power of Rulers by a written constitution of checks and balances was the basis of the ASP government. While religious rulers ruled the subjects as favor, the American rulers ceased to be rulers in the conventional sense – as bureaucrats they were servants chosen for particular tasks, and more importantly, they were paid servants, performing specific tasks within the limitations of what was allowed to them for monetary payment in return. (As politicians, they were volunteers offering themselves for specific tasks, sometimes receiving honorarium in return.) Conversely, the taxpayer, the producer of money, the Businessman and the Industrialist were considered to be important persons, indirectly benefiting society while they prospered. The westerners were the first ones to accord the VIP status to businessmen – no other society in men’s history had recognized them as so. The above also explains the reason as to why the Europeans, particularly the ASPs, were destined to progress far ahead of the rest of the world and why their success was guaranteed. If a society has a metaphysics that declares the surrounding reality to be unknowable, an epistemology that calls the senses to be invalid and the ego to be a tool of distortion, an ethics of self-sacrifice and renunciation of the world, and politically, if this philosophy is imposed on that society with the help of swords, then that society never intended to have much knowledge of Reality around, which it claimed to be unknowable in the first place. But on the other hand, if a society has a good philosophy (the Aristotelian base), i.e. it considers the world to be stable and knowable, the senses and the ego to be the tools of gathering and interpreting knowledge about that world, armed with logic to filter right knowledge from wrong one, if ethically that society accepts living by means of production by using knowledge of the world around as its “way of life”, and if politically that society is protected from any agency (including its own government) that intends to rob its individuals by ensuring “inalienable rights of the individual” and a constitution of checks and balances in ensuring such a “way of life”, then it will only be a matter of time before that society unravels all the mysteries that the other people call as “miracles of science”. Also note a derivation from the above: Just as an Aristotelian society is destined to succeed, so also a non-Aristotelian society is destined to fail sooner or later – it may copy some science and methods of production, acquire bombs, temporarily be a threat, cause destruction and so on – but in the long run it will fail because of the weight of its own irrationality. Therefore, the long term stability of England and America has been proof of their rationality, while the ever-growing internal tensions today, are a strong indication of loss of Aristotelianism – and once they cross that crucial level, they too will collapse. This is very important while studying the ‘Descent of ASP Revolution’ today, from two angles: that internally the western countries are slowly, even if imperceptibly, moving towards collapse; and that their external policies are very wrong on this count, viz. that the irrational societies are destined to fail sooner or later. The above difference between the Aristotelian and the Non-Aristotelian societies is so very simple to understand; the reason why the world does not accept it is complicated, though we will discuss the same as we proceed in this article. Continuing with the ASP Revolution, once its concepts became appreciably established in society, there was no looking back. The Rational usage of the ego went on creating ideas and conquering knowledge forbidden and punished by Religion. In a few days, men who were afraid of and ravaged by nature, by famines, drought, floods and epidemics were soon free of that permanent wrath of nature. Men till then were born and brought up to look with awe and fear at religious leaders for their alleged abilities to perform miracles now had the chance to really be dazzled by “miracles of science”. The ships, the cranes, the railway and the steam engines which they called as the Iron Horse, eradication of diseases after Pasteur and others, and in a later century, the airplane, the above 100 storied buildings, artificial organs in human bodies, the cyclotrons – all these were in their service. Today, physical material is so very easily and amply available to men, that many Asian countries, perennially famished even till the middle of 20th century, now have become food surplus, but only due to usage of western concepts like dams and irrigation, tractors, fertilizers, harvesters, storage silos etc. (As an aside, these men of the backward countries look down upon Western achievements as “mere materialism”. Many centuries back, before the dawn of this cursed modernity their moral leaders tell them, they were an ego-less society of men who loved each-other, and sacrificed for each-other and for the country.) The first beneficiaries of science were the Europeans – but they continued with the old practice of “conquests”, i.e. attacking, annexing and subjugating other countries and fighting with each other over the spoils. Some of the continental Europeans were straight away pirates and buccaneers! The change within Western society was not overnight. The struggle for supremacy was long and drawn out between the French, the English, the Germans, the Spanish, and the other Europeans – but the clear winners were the Anglo Saxon Protestants originating from England, for the simple reason that they inducted Aristotelian philosophy the most amongst all the Europeans into their lives. The game was very easy for the Europeans – when aided by science in their conquests, resistance worth mention was impossible, and conquests were quick and easy, with very few casualties. Such was the difference of power between them and the rest of the undeveloped world that within a small period of time the British started controlling all the seven seas and the five continents. A handful of them were enough to rule vast countries like China and India – in fact 1500 ICS officers assisted by Indian clerks and sepoys, was all that the Queen required to govern India’s hundreds of millions from her palace. Ditto with China, ditto with rest of Asia, ditto with the whole of Africa. And in fact, for the first 100 years India was ruled merely by the officers of East India Co, only after 1857 the Queen took over the rule from them. (Contrast this with the fact that even today governing India is a very difficult task for Indians. Several other countries have already collapsed.) The ASPs conquered most of the seven seas, becoming economically the most prosperous nation, scientifically the most advanced, in fact giving birth to the Industrial Revolution. Yet, there were men all over Europe, most particularly amongst the ASPs themselves, who were not content with the irrationalities from the earlier ages that still remained in the European way of life. This, they gave up as the “Old World”, and departed across the ocean in search of the “New World”, in search of greater freedom to the ego from a society closer to religion. Within 2 centuries of the ASP philosophy spreading to an appreciable extent within society, the ASPs had built two full continents on two sides of the Pacific Ocean, far away from little England of yester years. Of these, one chose a new path in the name of reason and freedom to the individual, vowing to build the greatest country in human history. Within a few years they fulfilled their pledge. This country then proceeded to become the citadel of reason and all its consequences in human life, achievement, success, prosperity and strength based on knowledge. And not only in one sphere of life, but every aspect of life, whether it be research and the Nobel prizes in science (*see below), sports and the Olympic Medals, film-making and other entertainment, production, business and industry, military might, literature – or any other, name it and America led. Soon it started producing and owning a huge percentage of the world’s GDP, many times more than any other nation. (That phrase “citadel of reason” is important – it is the thesis of this write-up that erosion of reason is the point over which America is likely to collapse.) (*) – Amongst such Prizes, and those awarded by governments of different countries, the Nobel Prize for science has retained some credibility (while losing some), science being more objective. Other Prizes leave room for much more skepticism because irrationality can be practiced a lot more in humanities and social sciences, which is also mankind’s practice so far. Few more details of this are given ahead. PS Oct ‘09: The nomination (and subsequent award) to President Obama, not only without any performance, but even without full announcement of policies, gives further credence that either the awards are used for political purposes, or something is wrong with mankind’s philosophical theories. C. Spiritual and Moral Aspects of the ASP Revolution The ASP revolution was not merely materialistic, as alleged by the world looking at the success of the ASPs in the fields of science, industry and business. The revolution was first and foremost spiritual and moral, because without being so, material progress is impossible. The society that the Protestant revolution produced was the most moral / honest society to have ever lived on earth. Consider these examples typical of social life of the 19th century: There was the story of newspaper sale in all the towns and cities of 19th century England and America. A pile of newspapers would be left in the squares, unattended, with a box for money. At the end of the day, the cash in the box would automatically be equal to the cost of newspapers taken away. In the developing countries of the “unselfish”, this would have caused riots for every broken piece of the box and the stool supporting the newspapers. (Similar was the situation in some parts of Europe where people would go away from their houses without closing the entrance door – in the so-called “backward” countries where ‘pious religion’ rules and people are supposed to be ‘unselfish’, 2 – 3 days is how much it takes for the owners to be away from their house, even for a locked house in a crowded city to get wiped out.) Following is another story narrated by a man from a “developing” country, visiting a western country, who once tried to make a phone call from a public phone in a post-office. He told the employee inside that he had wasted three coins, but could not get the connection. The employee gave the visitor his three coins, informing that the instrument was faulty, further adding that he would recover the money later. The visitor was aghast at the employee’s credulousness, because back home he knew there would be long queues and heated arguments for coins wasted in spoilt instruments, if such a policy were in practice. The first claimant’s demands would far exceed the daily turnover of the machine. Compare this with the achievements of “pious religion” from another angle: Let us forget for a moment that the rulers of religious societies were heartlessly cruel, cutting of organs, blinding etc was common. What is the mental state of the common folks, the Gareebs, in such societies? Just to give a sample, if an accident happens in any of the villages – cars dashing against each other with 4 – 5 mangled bodies in each of them needing immediate medical attention, blood infusion etc, or a bus of 30 – 40 passengers collapses leaving them in the above state – A mob of villagers is seen running merrily towards the accident spot, one may be moved by their compassion and be a bit surprised at their merriment – but the reason for merriment is that it is the chance for the Gareebs to pull ornaments and clothes from the dying bodies, to snatch purses and belongings. Flesh of the dying is simply torn to get some ornaments! This is the brother-love and compassion “pious religion” has infused into the Gareebs over last 5000 years! The above were the achievements of Aristotelian philosophy getting ingrained into society, to which rest of the world (the so-called “developing” world) is unaccustomed. That the world is real, not an illusion and an ever-changing phenomenon, that words of language have fixed, firm meaning, that Mine and Not Mine are words whose meaning was not to be inter-changed as per convenience, was ingrained into men’s mind as per Aristotelian philosophy. Even today, despite heavy erosion of Aristotelian philosophy post Immanuel Kant, the level of honesty in Western Societies is far, far superior as compared to the undeveloped world. (But it is pertinent to add here that with changing times, there is substantial erosion of this atmosphere in their societies, details of which are given under the Descent Phase.) But this is the reason for claiming further ahead in this article that though the Americans are trying to use the UN as East India Company, they are no match for the cheats from the ‘undeveloped’ countries – they have to lose in the game. In other respects also (apart from honesty), the benevolent atmosphere had created a tremendous respect for the stature of ‘man’ – he was looked upon, not as an object of pity, but as a being to be respected for his capabilities. Charity, a solely private concern then, unlike the corrupt display of unearned government extravaganza today, took this form of magnanimity and benevolence. The man who had much more than others, and also than his personal needs, shared it with others during their misfortune – but others did not look at it as beggars who immediately throng in religious societies – they first looked for work, and only as a last recourse accepted charity as a temporary measure with acknowledgement of situation. Even when poor, men had self respect and self-esteem, and were not hated for the same, as in religious societies. The above respect for the stature of ‘man’ meant a substantial reduction of envy, and a commensurate increase of respect and appreciation of others’ achievements – an atmosphere of benevolence exactly opposite to the “religious” atmosphere, where all the Gareebs participate whole-heartedly in the defeat of rationality. Ambition was not a crime that incurred hatred from others around. This was because there was ‘good-will’ in society instead of the ‘evil-will’ generated by unselfishness of religion. Now-a-days many people in the world know the term ‘good-will’. The reason for such a construction of the sentence is that during religious times that term was absent, it was not known to anybody, and even today, there are many people to whom it is unknown (in societies closer to Thoroughly Irrational Society (TIS) where the influence of religion / communism is strong.) That feeling is replaced in these societies by ‘evil-will’. Good-will is typically a term that can be used amongst traders only – the people who were given their appropriate place in society by the ASPs and the French alone – no other society, not even the Greeks have done that. This reduction in envy, and an atmosphere of benevolent good-will had been achieved because the American had achieved the highest of morality – he had become rationally selfish! At the peak of the ASP Revolution, i.e. not in terms of technological progress but in terms of emotionally benevolent atmosphere of the 19th century, they were truly selfish enough to be motivated by how much they personally achieved / earned, and not with how much the other person earned – they were not concerned with comparative standards, but their own absolute achievement. It is only rational selfishness that can ever cure this poisonous disease of envy – it has no other cure – and no other cause except the theories of self-sacrifice and evil-of-the-ego. From a sense of life point of view (i.e. implicit in behavior), the 19th century American was relatively the most Rationally Selfish human being, i.e the most moral person. Somewhat sarcastically it is said that a typical American’s world is limited to his workplace, his spouse, his friend circle and parties (in short he is self-centered). This is the most moral of the attitudes ever, it implies that he will not claim false unselfishness, nor preach unselfishness to others, which means not expect, impose, deceive, persuade others into unselfishness taking pleasure in their losses, the way “unselfishness” is practiced all over the world – especially amongst relatives of “unselfish” societies. At the same time he will not claim to love his brothers falsely, nor demand that they love him arbitrarily, indiscriminately, overlooking his shortcomings and vices. This achievement is a part of what we have called as the ASP Revolution, as per which culture each man is expected to support his life only by means of productive work, acquiring his sustenance from nature, neither sacrificing himself, nor expecting sacrifices from others. (The exhortation for “universal love” is also motivated by the same intention as unselfishness and non-egoism. Universal Love? Of-course a great ideal so that fools may get deceived, as well as, my vices, wrong-doings, acts of injustice – in fact my indulgence in evil – is over-looked.) Patriotism was not community service or self-sacrifice – it was man’s love for himself and his freedom. He would be ready to give up his life rather than live as a conquered person. His country, a community of independent-minded, free, rationally selfish men, had ensured for him, independence and freedom to act and produce – and he would defend the same even at the cost of his life, if it were threatened by an external or internal enemy. Today, because of America’s unnecessary participation in wars, coupled with the use of the ‘draft’, it is the opposite – and like in religious times, the upper sections use the lower sections as cannon fodder while goading them to ‘sacrifice for the country’ and ‘sacrifice for the poor people of the earth’. The climax of moral aspect of ASP Revolution was seen in the history of its first 150 years. Despite the philosophy originating in England, the latter was not free of the worst aspect of mankind’s past, viz. Empire building, annexation and subjugation. She continued with conquests, part development and part aggrandizement under the name of “enlightenment”, “white man’s burden” etc till she met with nemesis in W W II and reduction to being a second rate power. But the US in its early days, particularly the first 100 – 150 years (up to about W W I), was the great emancipator. May be that was because it had to win its own freedom from British aggrandizement itself and earn the statue of liberty. My admiration for the achievement of those 150 years is vast. Americans were the first to realize that there was no superiority in men conquering other men, whether as nations or as individuals. (This statement has important implications while handling issues of slavery and racism. They were the first and the only emancipators of entire mankind from all kind of discrimination – and see what they get in return – in the article on Racism.) Science was to be used for conquest of nature and for self-defense, i.e. for retaliation, not for domination / initiation of force. The first 150 years of the US coincided with a period that saw the least number of wars in the developed world, and a huge expansion in knowledge and production! And though the US had become the most powerful country on earth, it broke from the standard history of the past, by not attacking a single country on its own, the only 2 –3 wars it won during these years were the ones imposed on it by others. To sum it up in a single sentence – the US changed the pattern of history that mankind wrote so far, from history of wars and loot, to a history of all round achievements in all fields of knowledge – science, arts, production, entertainment and sports – a history of anybody who has achievement to his credit, not just the kings killing the populace, and the “saints” preaching unselfishness and renunciation as way of life. But this did not mean the US had become a weakling, afraid of wars. Quite contrarily, it became too very powerful for the world to wage any wars against, but at the same time was also a moral country. Any other nation fractionally as powerful as the US would have launched into all round attacks – theirs was morality at its highest – the mightiest nation on earth, having many times the power to conquer the world, got engaged in the least number of wars, and that too the ones that were forced upon them by others. (No other country on earth can match this kind of record for a prolonged period of almost 150 years – least number of wars despite huge power, and maximum development of human virtues! (One para from the sub-article on Typical Theoretical Analysis of unselfishness and non-egoism is copied here: Not satisfied with internal loot, the kings’ armies always turned to external aggression – this is the root of history being the same all over the earth, a history of continuous wars with emperors becoming “Great” by killing others and then getting killed in their turn; a history of sons killing fathers, and brothers killing brothers for succession. (Therefore an important statement is attached to the birth of the US, which highlights its moral superiority: For a brief span of about 150 years, the US changed the nature of this history in the developed world – rest of the undeveloped world still goes on with the same history of wars. For details see any standard school text-book on history.))) (In recent years, i.e. about last 100 years, the history of American wars too has changed with changed atmosphere with bad consequences mainly to its own honest citizens – details available in ‘Descent’ phase ahead – and it is yet another example of philosophy of unselfishness breeding wars.) At the same time, the country enjoyed the greatest internal stability – almost no other country on earth, with as huge a size as the US, has remained immune to internal strife for so long a period of time. As mentioned earlier, Tocqueville, a well-known French thinker of 19th century, specially went to the US to study it as “the most stable democracy of its time on earth”. With the exception of one single internal war meant for the eradication of slavery, and one instance of defying a government that was using prohibition of alcohol as a ploy for violating individual rights and imposing “welfare measures”, there is no appreciable internal strife worth mention amongst far flung regions of the country. The internal war was to free African-Americans from the clutches of Southern Religionists, the Church Belt, which is one more example of the fact that the more a society believes in “unselfish love and non-egoism”, whether of religion or of communism, the more it believes in and practices slavery. Any other empires which achieved such stability over so extensive area did so by means of suppression and liberal usage of the sword – and therefore achieved it only for a short period of time. The US achieved it by creating the best conditions of life, including justice dispensation. The rest of the world has accused the country of inhuman capitalist exploitation of workers, but simple observations show that jealousy and misrepresentation of facts are major components of such allegations. During the ascent phase, and a long time after, the standard of living of even the poor was much higher than better off people in the rest of the world. So very free and benevolent was the atmosphere that the best minds from all over the earth, including Europe / England, first sought opportunity to migrate to the US – and year after year, at least 50% of Nobel prizes in science are won by Americans even today! And the yearning for migration by rest of the undeveloped world is typified by the story of the Chinese (given just ahead) who died in his second attempt to illegally enter the country in a container box! Overall the ASP society had so much gone away from evil and towards rational selfishness / Aristotelian good that today they are unable to properly identify / analyze several issues that are tormenting them. They are confused by ‘they’ of the world attacking them, are unable to identify ‘hatred of good for being the good’ as leitmotif, as essence of TIS engraved on the minds of Gareebs (or all components of TIS). They are unable to know why they are many times isolated in world forums, why even allies gang up against them to side obvious irrationality. There is a case to call the ASP Revolution, beyond this point, as American Revolution. But I have not done so because: The American revolution too had its roots in the English theories, the American constitution abundantly quoting John Locke and other English thinkers of the time of its writing. Other aspects of philosophy too the Americans borrowed from English thinkers like Bacon, Adam Smith etc. Apart from Locke, all these other thinkers, particularly Adam Smith, have a huge following in the US. As per Wikipedia, this is what Thomas Jefferson said about the English legacy: The third US president Thomas Jefferson wrote; "Bacon, Locke and Newton..I consider them as the three greatest men that have ever lived, without any exception and as having laid the foundation of those superstructures which have been raised in the Physical and Moral sciences". Adam Smith is absent because Wealth of Nations was just getting published, in 1776. Almost the entire effort depended on the English philosophy. The fight was because a basic change was taking place in that society – the individual was getting a superior, sanctified position vis-à-vis the state, as against the individual meant only to serve the state till then – but otherwise, for all practical purposes they all were English only. This had an important effect from the point of view of this write-up, that like the English, the Americans too lacked in one particular point viz. developing a theory claiming anexplicit moral base to the Revolution, though the induction of reason was even superior to the English. Their improvement over the English was to implicitly give scope to rational selfishness as a way of life, what they frequently refer to as “the American way of life”, capitalism, etc. (These differences, ascending steps towards full rationality, along with the lack mentioned above, are important for studying further development of these societies including today’s problems.) CHAPTER 5 THE ANGLO SAXON PROTESTANT REVOLUTION – TRANSITION TO DESCENT What has caused the decline of such a great country? Why so many problems came out with the present sub-prime lending crisis? Why are crises repeating in the last few decades? Let us now check this important point in detail. As is the thesis of this article, all the glory seen above was effect of Aristotelian philosophy being of utmost importance to the best of the English society (in the wider sense of the term, including those who had migrated to build the New World with reason as the foundation.) The fall started with the erosion of Aristotelian concerns post Immanuel Kant, exacerbated by the weakness of democracy and multi-culturalism. The above is the connection of this article with the issue of why the best of the societies have reached upto the stage of democracy and then fallen – that Democracy has become “the problem of civilization”. But I am cutting off at this point because of the risk of posting too lengthy an article. PS: The above was chapter no 4 of Release – 1 of my book awaiting acceptance by publishers. In case there was any difficulty in understanding ideas explained in earlier part of the book, I shall be glad to give explanation – but better still, please see more parts of the book by ctrl + clicking on the first link below, which will give an MS word file, therefore more recommended; or by feeding the URL in the second link (this link changes the formatting – but ideas are in tact). 1. Download link : http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/9b7728a1ee_0.38MB 2. URL: http://wp.me/pguKM-3/ASP Revo Abstract and 3 chapters Apart from abstract, contents and first 2 chapters, these also include discussion about moral degeneration and fall due to democracy. The above was a continuation of my response-post to M S Kelly’s article “The Ayn Rand Love / Hate Myth – Part – 4” about the importance of history and the greatness of Greek civilization. You may also see that post on page 2 of MSK’s article – it includes quotes from Plato, J Adams, J Madison, T Jefferson and Ayn Rand – showing the necessity of studying history.

Hi to everybody, I am new here, and NOT internet savvy, (self-info given under Meet and Greet, unable at the moment to upload my photo son being away -- will add it later); I am not a professional philosopher, so I cannot go too deep into this topic like some others. I think history is very important from one point of view -- to learn about men’s past mistakes and to apply to today’s situation. In fact all the positive and negative aspects of all past civilizations should be studied – so as to apply to our present situation. For example, the Greeks, and then the Romans were highly advanced in political concepts and structure of governance (definitely compared to their times, and surprisingly to some extent, even compared to ours). It would be quite important to know how and why they failed – and learning the process will help us because today’s western countries are in the same transition stage towards fall due to take-over by unreason. As we were discussing on another O’ist forum (where I have posted a substantial chunk and want to bring it here for discussion), civilizations have kept on collapsing throughout history – as some member said there, they have a limited life. But the study of their pattern should help us in taking precautions and increasing the life of civilizations – which men don’t seem to have made properly so far, most probably because, as pointed out by MSK, men tend not to give to history its due importance. Below, see a part of my writing about this and imagine the consequence of neglecting this aspect of civilizations. 4. Comments on Quotes about Democracy Proceeding on the above lines of degeneration of rulers due to mass psychology, some reasons of erosion of American democracy are very nicely explained by the following ancient quote (though the existential situation is almost like small-town, rural India). QUOTE i. The characteristic of the democracy is equal freedom and open speech to all, with liberty to each man to shape his own life as he chooses. ii. …. even horses, asses and dogs go free about, so that they run against you in the road, if you do not make way for them. …… iii. The subversion of such a democracy arises from men who rise to be popular leaders in it: violent, ambitious, extravagant men who gain the favor of the people by distributing amongst them confiscations from the property of the rich. iv. The rich, resisting these injustices, become enemies to the constitution. v. The people, in order to put them down, range themselves under the banners of the most energetic popular leader, who takes advantage of such a position to render himself a despot. vi. He begins his rule by some acceptable measures, such as abolition of debts, and assignment of lands to the poorer citizens, until he has expelled or destroyed, the parties opposed to him. vii. He seeks pretences for foreign wars, in order that the people may stand in need of a leader, and may be kept poor by the contributions necessary to sustain war. viii. But presently he finds, or suspects, dissatisfaction among the more liberal spirits. He kills or banishes them as enemies. UNQUOTE This is Plato in “The Republic” (380 BC, means he is describing conditions of around 500 – 600 BC!), and the reader will be surprised how much the Republicans and the Democrats (or even the corresponding parties in India) are competing to grab power and outdo each other exactly on the above lines. (My explanation about how democracy and multi-culturlism forces them to follow the same path as Greek and Roman democracies is given ahead – I would like to add that by simply studying only this aspect of those civilizations, one could do a lot to stem today’s slide – provided men give to history its due importance. It is surprising that while man is preparing to land on moon, mankind is still rooted in 500 BC!) One may get similar quotes from Roman times. Amongst America’s founding fathers John Adams predicted: “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There was never a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” There is a quote attributed to James Madison about majoritarian tyranny, and commentators have shown how many steps the Founding Fathers had taken against this tyranny. Following quote is attributed to Thomas Jefferson: “The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who do not. It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debt as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world. I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the Government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Ayn Rand herself referred at several places to fall of America, for example “For the New Intellectual” starts with America being bankrupt and following a suicidal course; The title: The New Left – the Anti-Industrial Revolution is self-explanatory and articles like “From A Symposium” describe how America is being led to collapse; or the very essence of Atlas Shrugged is the building of a new society out of the collapse of the present one (and the villains are seen in multiple copies, where are the heroes?); Anthem starts with a collapsed modern society of about 1930s (means too much more developed than Greece) – just read the April 1946 foreword she wrote for it to know what she meant by the world proceeding to collectivism, we have progressed so much towards that world; In several essays in Capitalism the Unknown Ideal, she talks about what type of dictatorship is likely to emerge in America – e.g. the title of article (of 1965): “The New Fascism: Rule by Consensus” is self-explanatory and ends with the type of dictatorship America is heading towards; the article “The Anatomy of Compromise” says, “the ultimate end of altruism will be achieved: universal immolation”; (If I am not wrong, Ominous Parallels was endorsed by her? And today, has the situation deteriorated far beyond?); in the 1971 article “Don’t Let It Go” (from the book Philosophy Who Needs It), she says “If America drags on in her current state (which is unlikely) for a few more generations, dictatorship will become possible.” Here she was only addressing better Americans to “Don’t Let It Go”, but the unlikely has become a reality, America has dragged on and the speed of getting closer to collapse is now progressively increasing. What was a more distant possibility during her life-time (huge erosion having already happened since 1900) is now a reality – in fact in an article titled “Dismantling America” on the web-site the Atlasphere, dated Oct 27 2009, Thomas Sowell gives a horror-list of government’s atrocities that were not imaginable even one year back! What matters now is the solution to this decay of democracy, take-over of the political machine by the so-called ‘lower classes’ released because of the efforts of heroes. (More about this aspect of “fall due to decay of democracy” is available in next posts.) I am stopping here to keep this post limited – but I am posting another article about HISTORY of civilizations in the sub-forum “Articles” about the greatness of America during the first 150 years of her formation (Title: Anglo Saxon Protestant – Revolution (about today’s US) – see it’s connection with the Greeks, which further justifies studying collapse of Greek and Roman democracies). And for further ideas about this topic please see it by ctrl + clicking on the first link below, which will give an MS word file, therefore more recommended; or by feeding the URL in the second link (this link changes the formatting – but the ideas are in tact). 1. Download link : http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/9b7728a1ee_0.38MB 2. URL: http://wp.me/pguKM-3/ASP Revo Abstract and 3 chapters These include discussion about moral degeneration and fall due to democracy. I am thankfully hoping that some members will at least be interested, and make a good discussion out of it.

Adam, By publicly I mean my observations / experiences about religious upbringing / life in a book form -- some time later, and possible considering I have taken retirement precisely for the purpose of writing -- but there also obstacles like persecution, victimization -- still let's see. Thanks for email etc offers, I will increase my contact with a lot of people on this site. Please give me the thread about O'ism in India unless it is Ed Hudgins' article which I have read -- also, the names of these other members. And I am interested in knowing their India counterparts. Democracy is something I wish to write about on this and other O'ism forums. Please read in next few days -- and comment. Jihadi attacks did not affect me directly. Thanks and regards, I now shift to that matter about democracy.

That was very perceptive Adam, didn’t occur to me. So I had better come out with a good response: else you have taken my wicket in the very first ball  effect of popularity of cricket in India, it means he got me out at the opening itself. Actually, these things one can know only as the acquaintance grows: but my personal introduction itself, particularly the sentence “But I have had no chance to air these views because of social surrounding etc. (and experience showed that reasoned arguments bring only disadvantages)”, is a mild indication of things. Despite that the main reason is totally different, though the consequences didn’t occur to me then. As I went on filling the registration form, this option came. When I opened the button I was about to bypass it – but suddenly, just as a reflex action, clicked “female”. Then I smilingly went ahead thinking “why not” to myself – and the next thing was Adam’s observation. (If that choice had not appeared there, this would not have happened, and I don’t indulge in this option on other sites, not a member anywhere else for such a purpose.) Actually, I am sufficiently married to Objectivism itself – i.e. not professionally, but for the sake of applying it to my life. It would not be proper for me to immediately tell the story of my life from several angles, but given the preponderant influence of religion in undeveloped societies, many surprises are possible – emerging societies are actually emerging from whatever you can imagine -- or may not even be able to imagine. Recently a close person (I have only 2 left now, a lot of society has / had joined hands to cure me of "evil egoism" etc) asked me “How could I spend my time, given my first 30 years in a not even emerged but yet to see the first sun-ray type of surrounding / upbringing?” That is the type of difficulty O’ism can put one into – also seen in a good post on this forum “O’ism and Rage”. At the same time – only because O’ism is so very good a philosophy I could survive! Anyway, we cannot consume all the space and time here over this, but thanks for raking up the issue so at least something is out. You can again re-read the intro and imagine a few more things – and hopefully, someday I will be able to say more on this – publicly. Thanks to Michael (and others) for the welcome – now it’s “cool” here only in the sense of being bearable. Few days back it was so cool that 150 – 200 people died in North India. (I am in Mumbai, slightly to the South of Center.) Same time, several years’ record low temperatures were seen in most of the world, China – Korea, US etc. I wondered what happened to global warming – some conspiracy by nature?

Hi everybody, I am retired (55) and invest in stocks now. I am not a philosopher by profession, but my observation of overall social situation in India (‘untouchability’, religious schisms, oppression of ladies, poverty consequent to orthodox fanaticism despite a huge pool of intelligent and open-minded people) + reading of American books (in particular Ayn Rand) etc led me to think about the effect of philosophy on human societies. But I have had no chance to air these views because of social surrounding etc. (and experience showed that reasoned arguments bring only disadvantages). Nowadays there is more openness in some social strata, and there are better minded people available, but there are a lot of barriers for me to join them because of age etc. Also, despite education, I am not Internet savvy – in fact only in 2008 I came to know that it is possible to join large groups of discussion like this one. (After seeing some Objectivist sites, I was pained to note that the small following of Objectivists is also a heavily divided community, with some groups considering each other to be bigger enemies than the erosion going on in America. I am neutral to these groups because it is not possible to go into these details. I wish to discuss ideas with people where a lot of agreement is seen.) I have some thoughts in particular about the erosion of reason in the US, the country specifically built on reason as its foundation. Hope that my posts will be seen with interests and discussed by people. Thanks to the administrators / owners for making such a facility available Best Regards To Everybody