Alfonso Jones

Some are, not me... Check the news, and what those who would purport to represent us in Washington, D. C. are doing. For many of us it is not our choice, but it is being done... My hope is that by the time the populace throws out the thugs (2010?) it will not be so late that it takes decades to correct what has been done. Bill P

An excellent essay, as we have learned is your norm, Ed. If someone had written the events of the crumbling of the fall of the Soviet Empire as fiction, it would have doubtless been treated as fantasy. And yet it happened. Meanwhile, in the USA, we are squandering our freedom for the "privilege" of having a nanny state look after us. Bill P

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Good premises. May you all be full of insight and see through the sophists. Bill P

Michael - When I read that last post of Xray's (to which I responded above) I at first thought we were dealing in satire. IN someone poking fun at some of the sillier of the Rand critics. But, considering the author and the pattern of Xray's past writings, I think she either means it or at least wants us to take it seriously. Sad. Bill P

Xray - Did you really read even just the short quote above and come to the conclusion that Rand has Galt speaking about someone "paying their parents in order to come into existence?" How can you get that construction of what Rand wrote? Read that paragraph to an intelligent person, and see if they think the author is speaking about someone doing the physically impossible - paying their parents in order to come into existence! I doubt you will find that anyone seeking to understand will be so desperately confused. If you want to be taken seriously, you will do better if you don't engage in such amazing distortion and misunderstanding of rather clear statements. Bill P

Examples: Is another day going to be a pleasure, or is it going to be a pain or burden. A person suffering unremitting pain, could very well prefer the peace of death to going on in pain. Or a person just may have enough of life and another day would be extremely tedious for him. There are lots of sensible reasons for not wishing to go on. But a Shi'ite Objectivist will have none of these, for Rand has spoken. Ba'al Chatzaf Ba'al - I"m interested: What is it that you think Rand said about suicide? Please advise, specifically. Citations are appreciated. Bill P There's a pretty good discussion of Objectivists and suicide at the Atlas Society site. Here's a link if you are interested: http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth--1287-Suicide.aspx Yes, Mary. There has been discussion by Rand also, which is in direct contradiction of what Ba'al implies above that she has said. Which is why I asked him for his (Ba'al's/Bob Kolcher's) understanding of what Rand has said about suicide. Bill P

Examples: Is another day going to be a pleasure, or is it going to be a pain or burden. A person suffering unremitting pain, could very well prefer the peace of death to going on in pain. Or a person just may have enough of life and another day would be extremely tedious for him. There are lots of sensible reasons for not wishing to go on. But a Shi'ite Objectivist will have none of these, for Rand has spoken. Ba'al Chatzaf Ba'al - I"m interested: What is it that you think Rand said about suicide? Please advise, specifically. Citations are appreciated. Bill P

I guess the study guide was complete - as well as empty. Bill P I may actually develop this over the holiday, but it really looks like I would just be wasting time. Since this last post by Ms. Simple, the study guide would be very, very short. Ms. Xray has now announced that she has a mystical aspect to her persona, in her declaration that: "I'm perfectly familiar with Rand's thought patterns..." which must be some kind of Vulcan mind meld with a little twist of Shirley MacLaine and Dennis Kucinich. However, if I do get the satirical urge, I may work on it. Clearly, any contributions would be appreciated. Adam The soundtrack doubtless will contain "I am the Walrus," from Magical Mystery Tour (The Beatles). Bill P

I would choose the Barbara Branden bio of Rand first. (I have read all three.) It is the one based on a deeper understanding of Rand's philosophy and, I believe, more insight on her motivations. Now, both Heller and Burns benefit (especially Burns) from access to materials Branden didn't have access to. Burns was given fairly extensive access to the archives. That is reflected in some of the new material. Based on the reports I received, I purchased both the Burns and Heller books - and don't regret having spent the time to read each of them. On the other choice: I'd like to get the Cox biography of Paterson. Haven't gotten around to it yet. Bill P

Adam wrote: I guess the study guide was complete - as well as empty. Bill P

Well, she was wrong if you use the widely accepted meaning of 'morality' but not if you use the Objectivist meaning. The more I think about this the more I think that she had an agenda against traditional religious/altruistic dogma which uses people's conception of 'morality' to control their lives. By hijacking the term she can actively fight against this dogma. It's like saying "that's not morality, this is!" Ever since Socrates (nearly 2300 years now) morality has been defined in a social context. Has the mass of thinking men been deluded all these years? Why all of a sudden is Ayn Rand right and the rest of the human race wrong? She simply made some blunt assertions and never offered any empirical evidence to support her view on morality. Some of Ayn Rand's views do not hold up under empirical scrutiny. In particular, her view of morality. Bob Kolker Ba'al - Based on your prior comments and discussion, I think this is a very thoughtful question. Here's the deal, as I understand it: Rand was absolutely determined to reclaim the notion of morality from people who would impose "oughts" on individuals from outside. Historically most of them, of course, have been operating from a religious point of view. She wanted to articulate the notion of morality as a tool for living. This is the magnificient achievement, in my view, of her essay "The Objectivist Ethics," found as the lead essay in The Virtue of Selfishness. This is very fundamental for Rand's radical individualism. My view: She most emphatically DOES NOT WANT to separate morality into a morality(1) which has to do with the interpersonal, and a morality(2) which has to do with an individual making decisions "on a desert island." Hence her statement about morality being needed MOST on a desert island - no separation of private/public. I do not think it is just some unintentional use of an existing term. She wants to reclaim the term (and the entire notion of morality) from "the mystics" of all kinds. Bill P

Chris - Ever face down a real hurricane? They can be pretty frightening. Bill P Depends where ye living - high ground areas, concrete housing, not so bad - rather hurricane than tornado [which we also get hereabouts time to time]... I lived in Satellite Beach, Florida for a while, and after that consulted extensively with a company in the area while being a faculty member at the University of Tennessee. Lived just a couple of blocks from the beach. You could get sidewise rain (rain coming in from the east, almost parallel to the ground!), and sometimes really large/heavy stuff would be flying around when the winds got high at hurricane time. A hotel I stayed at once every two weeks in a multiyear consulting stint was demolished so badly they had to virtually start over. Bill P

I enjoyed this essay, also. Bill P

Or if he gets "randomly selected" for the extra-special search they do in the private room. Bill P

I disagree re the biographies. Both have much to offer. They in fact add much. Barbara Branden has acknowledged as much on this forum, wrt the Heller book. YOu can get either one for well under USD $20 if you shop carefully. Bill P

And it's plunging down into the 40s tonight in Miami. This may seem pleasant enough to folks up north, but Floridians think of this as bitter cold weather. This after a Thursday night/Friday morning series of squalls dumped as much as 14 inches of rain in some places. And when those places are low lying streets that were originally built out of swamp land, urban flooding often results--and it did, although the streets quickly dried out. Unfortunately, can't say the same of the cars and homes that got flooded out. (I live on what is called Pine Island Ridge--a hundred and fifty years ago, this was an elevated ridge in the middle of the Everglades, and used by the Seminoles as camping grounds--meaning I'm a whole foot or so above sea level, and therefore less susceptible to flooding.) I have always thought the Spanish word for storm is rather apt when sounding in Anglophone ears: tormenta Last week, by the way, it was in the mid eighties for several days in a row, a few degrees warmer than usual. This is why we put up with hurricanes. People in Florida are wimps. Experience some real weather. Chris - Ever face down a real hurricane? They can be pretty frightening. Bill P

I don't. I'm getting tired (from years of either lurking or posting) of the constant petty, vicious sniping going in both directions. Both that site and this one have sizable faults and notable virtues. It depends on what, and whom, you choose to look at, as with any site. I did want to state, though, that Lindsay Perigo's opinions, or anyone's, about what should, or should not, be done to the President of the United States are no proper concern of the authorities. Not in any society that has even a semblance of respect for freedom of speech from governmental control. Greybird - There's some silly stuff posted on OL - granted. But have you seen the owner of this site post statements that the President of the USA should be killed? What's the most outrageous or borderline criminal thing you have seen by the owner? I've seen some plagiarism instances (not by the owner, but someone who is now banned). I've seem some rude interpersonal sniping (not involving the owner). But NOTHING approaching the material Michael quotes above. Can you provide the examples which you view as comparable, if you view there as having been comparable instances at OL to the one Michael has just quoted? Bill P

Since my paperback copy arrived today, I'm drinking a glass of wine (red, fairly dry) in honor of those who have contributed to this work finally coming out. First, of course, Nathaniel Branden. Also, Barbara Branden, Roger Bissell and the entire crew of transcribers, and Jim Peron. As well as whoever I have left out. It took a long time - - - over 40 years post-schism - - - but now it is here. Bill P

My copy (paperback) has finally arrived. They report the leather bound version will arrive next week. Bill P

Fortunately, Rand's definition for morality is specific and is given, along with her rationality for a different definition, in The Objectivist Ethics. This major essay is easily available, among other places, in the paperbook The Virtue of Selfishness. Discussions of Rand's thought on morality and selfishness are well-prefaced by a reading of this essay, if one wants to know what Rand said and thought. Bill P

I agree. I can remember eagerly anticipating new movies in the Star Trek: TOS series. I haven't been similarly eager for a new Star Trek movie since the end of the TOS movies, and the ones I have watched have been, in my judgment, substantially inferior to the bulk of those in the TOS series. Bill P

Yes, that makes sense. There might have been some quicker than others and figured it out right away. Perhaps - but if the caveman held up a large grey rock, how would the others know whether the meaning was rock, large rock, the color grey, or what? Only looking for the commonality (or lucky but unverified guessing) would get you there. Bill P

Of course, I know it. The point is that when a word is first used (by anybody) there is no convention to follow. OK, the first time a caveman said 'rock' and held a rock in his hands there was no convention to follow for the selection of the word to represent the object. Now the question is, so what?? I suspect what had to happen to ensure communication was for the caveman to, perhaps, drop this rock, and pick up another one and say "rock" again. Then to repeat that with several other rocks of varying size, color, etc.... Until the other party could determine what the items deemed "rock" had in common. Bill P

Yes. hilarious. King of Kings being the backdrop of her campaign to snare Frank. The black negligee story about Ayn getting the altruistic gift and transforming it into a selfish pleasure was priceless. Obviously, I just picked up the Burns book and I am up to page 37. I find her to be an excellent writer and I am enjoying her work immensely. I always thought that Ayn was a very needy woman. Very childlike in some ways, but always torn by wanting to dominate. Ahh topping from the bottom...a real no no. I am just thankful that my good friend handed me that book way back when. How bad did you get hit in Tennessee? Adam The Burns book is quite good. There's stuff to irritate almost anybody from either of the extreme camps (Rand as "can do no wrong" or Rand as "evil manipulator"), but Burns is an extremely strong writer and has done an excellent job. Snow in Tennessee - - - nothing here in Knoxville (But, up in the Smokies it is looking beautiful - based on seeing pictures and video.). But you don't have to drive very far north to see massive highway slowdowns (I think the interstate may have been shutdown for a few hours). We just don't have the equipment you would see in a more northern state. Bill P

I've gotten a lot of amusement from that story. The image of Rand tripping him, . . . . --- being that determined. And, the fact that the film was King of Kings - - - of all possible films. Bill P