pbmaltzman

Another weird thing I had read somewhere over the years about circumcision. There was a claim made that the mohels (religious person performing circumcisions) had a lower rate of "mistakes" and "complications" than did regular medical doctors. Just throwing this out there; I don't have any statistics at my fingertips to back it up.

Judith, I didn't mean to insult barnyard animals. What I meant was that the guy's hygiene was gross. He didn't seem to wash either himself or his clothing very often, and he smelled gross nearly every time I ran into him. I can't imagine wanting to have sex with someone who smelled bad.

Pam

I once was a member of a Toastmasters Club where one of the older guys went everywhere smelling like a barnyard animal. He would come to a meeting and hug and rub himself on the women. People delicately told him this was a problem, but he just couldn't understand. I remember watching him rub himself on one of the best-dressed women in the group, and I could well imagine her taking that outfit straight to the dry cleaner's the very next day.

I can't even imagine any woman wanting to have sex with someone who smelled that bad. He just couldn't pass the smell test.

Forgive my pushy curiosity here, but I'm still in the dark. By "barnyard animal", do you mean that he smelled like old rubber tires? If not, is there anything to which you can compare it?

Judith

Same here. I just can't tolerate gum chewing. I would refuse to date a gum-chewer. Can't stand the sight, the smell, or the sound of gum chewing.

Another huge turnoff: chewing gum, or chewing tobacco, or chewing anything other than food that he's going to swallow within a few seconds....

:sick:

Judith

Selene, I don' t know for sure if female doctors perform unnecessary hysterectomies any less often than male doctors would. Not to carp on it, but just as most doctors are still male, most medical school professors are probably still male.

I have typed up many operative reports for hysterectomies which are performed by female doctors.

Without bashing men too much here, I can imagine that a guy might not be as sensitive to what a woman might be going through with a hysterectomy... but then again, I might not be as sensitive if a guy were undergoing radical prostate surgery either, simply because it's not my body.

Good for you that your personal hygiene is up to snuff. Actually, I'm serious.

I once was a member of a Toastmasters Club where one of the older guys went everywhere smelling like a barnyard animal. He would come to a meeting and hug and rub himself on the women. People delicately told him this was a problem, but he just couldn't understand. I remember watching him rub himself on one of the best-dressed women in the group, and I could well imagine her taking that outfit straight to the dry cleaner's the very next day.

I can't even imagine any woman wanting to have sex with someone who smelled that bad. He just couldn't pass the smell test.

____

I once did some temporary office transcription work for a radiology group in another state. Nowadays, when you undergo a biopsy, if you have NOT already consented to further surgery in the same setting, any further surgery must normally occur at a different time and have a separate consent for that. But it apparently was not always like that.

Apparently some women would be anesthetized and go to sleep expecting a breast biopsy, but wake up minus a breast (or maybe minus both breasts). Surprise!! Yikes!!

Anyway, this one one radiologist was ranting and claiming that there was a higher "cure" rate in the good old days, when they might not have had to get separate consent for a mastectomy.

I felt like asking the guy how he would feel if he went to sleep expecting a testicular biopsy but instead woke up having had an orchiectomy (removal)!! I think he would sit up and notice. What can I say? The guy was a total schmuck!!

Personally, I have never been with an uncircumcised man, so I have no basis for comparison. But some years back, I did get involved in a discussion of the horrors of circumcision on another BBS. Some of the men were quite angry that circumcision was considered "normal" in Western society. They felt they had been robbed of their birthright.

Besides the horror stories of little boys losing part (in some cases most or all) of their penises, there were claims made that the human penis isn't meant to be dry, that it is meant to have its own lubrication, and that this affects sex for both male and female. Supposedly there is greater sensitivity on the part of the man, so that he doesn't have to "bang" his way to an orgasm. Among the tidbits I read on the subject, years ago, was the claim that sex was better for both male and female with an uncircumcised penis.

Again, I don't know from direct experience; and not to get too graphic here, but: I have heard from at least one other woman that if the guy isn't squeaky clean, oral sex (performed on the man) is rather unpleasant from the woman's point of view.

But I don't see why little boys and men can't learn to clean their own genitals... especially if the payoff might be better (and more) sex (down the road, if not immediately). As a medical transcriptionist, every once in a while I type up a report for circumcision which is done for medical reasons--that is, if the tip of the penis and/or the foreskin gets inflamed, or if the foreskin is too tight, then the guy (whatever his age) comes in to have it snipped.

There are all sorts of websites which discuss this issue. Some of the men, in their postings, wanted to blame women for the evils of circumcision, but then it was pointed out that doctors are often the ones pushing circumcision, and most doctors are still men. Also, some fathers want their sons' penises to look just like their own.

Personally, I am of Jewish descent... but my main concern with this issue is the man's cleanliness, not the ancient religious covenant.

Well put. I am Italian and my parents elected to have me circumcised. Thankfully, I had none of the medical nightmares that I have heard about and that you referred to. However, it did help quite a bit with the father's of the Jewish ladies that I dated, since I had to change my name to Kaplan just to get in the door, but I always told my dates that they did not have to worry, I could pass for Jewish at the country club shower if I was playing golf with daddy dearest.

My lady friends that have had known who have been with uncircumcised men also had good and bad stories and they all revolved around either good or bad basic hygiene. Therefore, based on their testimony nothing significant could be concluded.

However, your point is well taken that it is the predominantly male doctors that suggest circucision. It is one of the reasons why hysterectomys led the list for the most unnecessary surgeries conducted in the USA. Apparently, this has begun to drop with the increase in female gynecologists in the profession.

Good points throughout your post though.

Judith, I've heard about horse smegma and its removal before. I have never owned a horse, so I have never had to deal with it.

I don't know if horses perform oral sex on one another... I have seen dogs and cats licking each others' private parts many times over the years, though. What I was told was that for many ungelded horses, the way they keep their sheaths clean is to have sex.

Regarding human smegma: Without getting TOO graphic here, if a guy doesn't keep himself clean, I can well imagine that it could be unpleasant for a woman to perform oral sex on him.

I have read/heard that the natural lubrication of an uncircumcised man's penis makes sex feel better for both partners--but again, I have no direct experience with an uncircumcised man.

Regarding cutting off body parts because they MIGHT get diseased, somewhere down the road: I regard this as barbaric. And yes, I have typed up reports for women who have undergone "prophylactic" removal of breasts or ovaries because of the fear of cancer.

But then, I also regard most modern-day treatment of cancer as downright barbaric anyway.

I mean, why the hell not cut off my head, right here and now? I just MIGHT get brain cancer someday!

Okay, here we go. Those with sensitive constitutions can stop reading now.

...

You've been warned.

One of the big issues here seems to be the offensiveness of human smegma. I've never encountered it. Can someone describe it for me?

I HAVE encountered horse smegma. Horses, unlike dogs, do not have flexible backbones and cannot keep themselves clean. Accordingly, at least once a year, owners of geldings and stallions have to undertake the process known as "sheath cleaning", in which one buries one's arm up to the elbow in the horse's belly and cleans out equine smegma with one's hands and the help of a special soap. Inside the urethra a little ways is a little blind pocket perpendicular to the channel in which it builds up to a substantial degree to form what is commonly called a "bean", which is a hard, pebble-like bit of smegma which, if allowed to get too big, can interfere with urination and must be removed with a fingertip. Since we're dealing with a sensitive area here, many gentleman horses don't take too kindly to having this procedure performed. Some people wear rubber gloves when they do it, but considering the sensitivity and tact required, I prefer not to do so, since with bare skin I can better tell what I'm doing (one can't see what one is doing; it's all done by touch) and be able to tell in an instant if the 1,500 pound gentleman in question is becoming offended so that I can instantly STOP doing whatever he may find offensive. Sometimes the gentleman finds the process a bit TOO enjoyable, which can make things rather crowded to get the job done. All in all it's a long, time-consuming, difficult, dirty process in which one gets soaked with water and sweaty and, if one doesn't wear gloves, ends up with horse smegma firmly embedded in one's cuticles (although "Excalibur" sheath cleaning soap is amazingly effective at removing it; don't know what I'd do without it).

Here's the thing. Horse smegma is ...

...is...

...is...

...not all that offensive. It's black and kind of gritty and smells sort of like old tires dissolved in some solvent. The bean is kind of a silver color and extremely hard, and I'm sure gentleman horses are very glad to have it gone.

So: now you know something about the equine world.

What's the story on human smegma?

Judith

Personally, I have never been with an uncircumcised man, so I have no basis for comparison. But some years back, I did get involved in a discussion of the horrors of circumcision on another BBS. Some of the men were quite angry that circumcision was considered "normal" in Western society. They felt they had been robbed of their birthright.

Besides the horror stories of little boys losing part (in some cases most or all) of their penises, there were claims made that the human penis isn't meant to be dry, that it is meant to have its own lubrication, and that this affects sex for both male and female. Supposedly there is greater sensitivity on the part of the man, so that he doesn't have to "bang" his way to an orgasm. Among the tidbits I read on the subject, years ago, was the claim that sex was better for both male and female with an uncircumcised penis.

Again, I don't know from direct experience; and not to get too graphic here, but: I have heard from at least one other woman that if the guy isn't squeaky clean, oral sex (performed on the man) is rather unpleasant from the woman's point of view.

But I don't see why little boys and men can't learn to clean their own genitals... especially if the payoff might be better (and more) sex (down the road, if not immediately). As a medical transcriptionist, every once in a while I type up a report for circumcision which is done for medical reasons--that is, if the tip of the penis and/or the foreskin gets inflamed, or if the foreskin is too tight, then the guy (whatever his age) comes in to have it snipped.

There are all sorts of websites which discuss this issue. Some of the men, in their postings, wanted to blame women for the evils of circumcision, but then it was pointed out that doctors are often the ones pushing circumcision, and most doctors are still men. Also, some fathers want their sons' penises to look just like their own.

Personally, I am of Jewish descent... but my main concern with this issue is the man's cleanliness, not the ancient religious covenant.

"Show me what a man finds sexually attractive[<maybe off on that word - might be desirable] and I will tell you his philosophy of life."

Say that and be patient and you can actually see the person go through actual thought and one of the most beautiful sight for a teacher or persuader to see - awareness of a truth.

I must respectfully disagree with this to some extent; I think it is over-rated. I think that Rand, like a lot of people, may have been prone to assuming that a physically good-looking person was also a good person inside.

I've seen some good-looking women get away with a lot of bad behavior (especially if they were tiny and good at playing stupid or helpless); and I'm pretty damned sure that had they been more ordinary-looking, they'd have been called on their bad behavior a LOT sooner.

I agree that he should have had a prenup. Were I in his shoes, I'd certainly insist on one!!

I have heard/read suggestions that perhaps he fell for Heather because she resembled the deceased Linda McCartney, his previous (first?) wife.

Dayam, trophy wives can sure be expensive!

I also want to say thank you, Michael, for the report on this event. Most interesting.

I hear Ahmadinjad said there are no homosexuals in Iran. If that is true I wish he would stop executing those they find.

Hmmmm... I have heard that before they are married "over there," many men have sex with little boys, so as to avoid "sullying" those women who must be virgin when they are married. I've also heard that there is a lot of humping of goats and sheep over there (well, maybe apocryphal).

If so, what do you call sex with little boys? And what do you call sex with animals?

Just a rhetorical question, mind you. This is not a vocabulary test.

/sarcasm

I was just looking something up in My Years with Ayn Rand, and found the following on page 227, regarding Rand's new introduction (in 1958) to We the Living:

"It's basic theme," she wrote, "is the sanity of human life."

Read it again.... Sanity.

Of course, the original is "sanctity."

Alfonso (smiling)

And I'll bet the original read "Its basic theme" (possessive) rather than "It's basic theme" (contraction meaning "it is").

Just picking a nit. ;)

(1) is best done with a general anesthetic, assuming extraction; (2) local; (3) probably best not to do as the procedure will probably release significantly more mercury into your body than if the fillings are left in place; (4) not painful, just expensive. Do the cheapest things first, unless you have significant pain or disability right now. If you don't have gum disease you are very lucky. Consider saving money by going to India for all but the orthodontia, especally if there is more work needed than you are aware of, like root canals and caps. Since you haven't seen a dentist in 36 years, I'm afraid you are going to be in for a big shock.

--Brant

Unfortunately, I have neither the desire nor money to travel to India, either now or in the near future. I've also heard and read about people traveling to either Thailand or Mexico for similar lower-priced services.

I have also heard of people moving or traveling to places in the U.S. where certain medical/dental services are less expensive. I read an article some time ago on LewRockwell.com which indicated that its author had gotten IV chelation treatment in a place such as St. Louis, Missouri for far less than it would cost in, say, Southern California.

Based on everything I've read so far, I am still very interested in getting rid of my metal fillings when I can afford to do that. I also want to have done (on my sig. other and me) either IV or oral chelation therapy.

Pam Maltzman

Pam,

There was a ten-year period when I let my dentist drill on my teeth without novocaine. I found out that most of what I thought was pain was my fear of pain. When the real pain got real bad I just tightly gripped the arms of the chair until the dentist eased off. I did this once when I came back to Tucson, but it so freaked out the dentist--best dentist I've ever had, Dr. Robb--that I went back to the needle.

I hope this is helpful.

--Brant

Hi, Brant:

No offense, but no, your response was not helpful to me. Perhaps you and I have different tolerances for pain.

The episode I mentioned happened when I was about 18. I just turned 54 last month. I don't believe that it's just fear of pain. I quite clearly remember feeling sensations of pain. I made noise. The dentist wouldn't stop. I shoved him and his drill away from my mouth. He got pissed off at me.

In the intervening years, most of the time I have had to choose between optometric services (eyeglasses and some vision training) and dental services, due to finances (my glasses are expensive); most of the time I couldn't have done both. I have chosen vision services. Hopefully in the near future that will change.

Well, several things I would like to have done: (1) deal with wisdom teeth, (2) take care of two broken teeth and maybe some cracked teeth in front, (3) remove metal fillings and replace with a different material, and (4) straighten teeth. I fear I'm going to have to win the lottery first, though.

I have fairly sensitive teeth, and they have turned out to also be softer than I had thought. I'm definitely going for the anesthetic.

Pam

Owee, Michael. Hope you feel better soon. Dentists are no fun.

I hope the ice cream makes you (at least temporarily) feel all better. Edy's is good... out here in California it's known as Dreyer's ice cream, and I can vouch for the fact that they have some heavenly flavors. (Sorry, Kat, but I can't stand mint of any kind except wintergreen!)

I haven't been to a dentist in many years. The last time I went, the guy started drilling before the Novocain took effect, and he wouldn't stop, and then he got mad because I shoved him away from my mouth. (Yes, I realize that's dangerous.)

I need to see a dentist in the near future, and I'm not looking forward to it one bit. If I have done the stuff that needs doing, I will definitely let them give me some sort of general anesthesia.

Although I feel Jolie did a good job in movies such as Tomb Raider, I can't see her as Dagny Taggart. But she apparently has the desire and clout to play Dagny and to snag the role for herself.

She doesn't seem to project enough intellectuality for a Dagny. Also, the reports of her various tattoos strike me as less than appealing.

Also: Next year, I plan to attempt to transition my cats to a mostly-raw-meat diet ("bones and raw food" or BARF). I already have the grinder to do this. From what I've read, it makes sense to me that since cats are obligate carnivores, they should be eating mostly meat, and they should be eating it raw.

How long and well do cats live in the wild?

--Brant

I can't speak for all cats out there... but on the average it is not as long as they live indoors. You also have to ask: What causes of death might a cat face outdoors versus indoors?

Outdoors, they might get hit by a car. They might get eaten by a coyote or other predator. They might get poisoned or killed by humans who hate cats. All of these might happen regardless of how well they are taken care of by their owners.

I had a beautiful tortie cat (indoor-outdoor cat) who ran under the wheels of a car at the age of only about 2-1/2 years. I also had a handsome gray-and-white male cat (indoor-outdoor and later indoor exclusively)who only lived to 9-1/2 years because, from what I could see, he probably had cancer, and I chose to euthanize him rather than see him suffer any longer.

One of my current cats is a 10-year-old who was formerly fed a crap commercial diet, and now seems to be in better health because I feed her better. She came to me with a container full of cheap, high-carbohydrate, grain-based crap food.

She had horrible breath. She turned out to require an expensive teeth cleaning and extraction of two teeth because of her formerly bad diet, which needed to be done at the same time as treatment of an ear hematoma (one of the other cats swatted her). That was pretty expensive treatment. I think she had a chronic, low-level, systemic infection going on, because she was given a course of antibiotics along with the other treatment, and she is now more lively and active.

She's still a carbohydrate addict--she will leap over tall buildings to get certain treats. Fortunately she also likes meat.

As I see it, there are several trends going on which can determine how long a cat lives.

An indoor cat with a low level of exercise, on a high-carb commercial diet, might actually live to 15 years, but he also might be diabetic and in renal failure from the excessive carbohydrates which are found in many commercial diets. Also, an exclusively dry food diet is thought to predispose them to renal failure in later life. Expensive veterinary care might patch him up for a while, but he's not going to be as healthy as he would be on a diet with lower carbs and which includes raw meat.

I think that the arguments against humans eating an all-canned-food diet or all-fast-food diet are also valid against cats or dogs eating an all-canned-food diet.

Regardless, my reading leads me to believe that my cats will be healthier if I upgrade them to a raw-meat diet. I've got a book called "Raising Cats Naturally" by Michelle Bernard. I think what she's written makes a lot of sense. I recently bought a meat grinder, and I will probably start introducing them to a raw-meat diet early in 2008.

I think they'll live longer if I feed them better. It's also less expensive to feed your animals well and avoid the expensive veterinary bills down the road. Some of the people who advocate a more natural approach to the care and feeding of cats claim that their animals regularly top 20 years, which is a long time for a cat.

It's also good to know just what your cats are eating... personally, I want to AVOID having my cats die because of questionable food imported from China (had you heard about the BIG pet food scandal?). I don't want my furbabies dying from contaminated pet food.... so my thinking is that on several counts, my cats will be better off if I make my own pet food for them. Grind up whole chickens or other meat, add certain supplements, and there ya go. The only hard part will be getting them to eat it, because cats are creatures of habit and will often refuse to eat a new item.

Hey, two different people might live to 80 years or even longer. But one might get there by eating healthy, exercising a bit, taking vitamin supplements, avoiding excessive smoking and drinking, and undergoing oral or IV chelation therapy; and the other one might have had three bypass operations, heart valve replacement, dialysis, and leg amputations.

My significant other has a friend who's in his 70s, and he is one of the latter types of people. It's lucky for him that he made a lot of money in his younger years, because he's having to spend a lot of it now to get patched up in the hospital every few months.

Personally, I will never have that much money. I'd prefer to attempt to keep myself healthy and out of doctors' offices. Your mileage, of course, may vary.

Well, regarding eating healthy... there are a lot of different people giving advice from a lot of different viewpoints.

I think that meat and fat have an undeserved bad reputation. I think it depends on how the animals were raised. I've read that grass-fed meat is healthier for you (more Omega-3's). Also, we actually need fats, but we need to eat good fats, including animal fats. And it's the vegetable fats which go rancid more quickly... too many Omega-6's (and trans-fats, such as in margarine) actually will predispose a person to cancer.

From what I've read, I think that although vegetarianism or near-vegetarianism is useful for detoxification (some alternative medicine, anticancer diets are semi-vegetarian for a time), it might not be the total answer for all people for the long term.

I think that people from different ethnic backgrounds *might* have evolved to tolerate different diets.

Some folks can get by with a higher-carbohydrate diet than others. Me, I am type II diabetic, so a high-carbohydrate diet is out. I eat meat, and I like to eat meat. I also eat vegetables. It's hard to stay away from too many carbs... it's somewhat harder to stay away from them because my significant other likes them a lot.

Also, people of different ethnic backgrounds have a different reaction to dairy... some are lactose intolerant, at least to pasteurized cows' milk, but some can tolerate raw cows' milk or goats' milk.

Also... soy products, which are touted everywhere as being "healthy," actually have some problems. Soy is actually anti-thyroid--it suppresses thyroid gland function, among other things.

So... from what I've read so far, there is not one final answer to what's good for all people to eat.

Also: Next year, I plan to attempt to transition my cats to a mostly-raw-meat diet ("bones and raw food" or BARF). I already have the grinder to do this. From what I've read, it makes sense to me that since cats are obligate carnivores, they should be eating mostly meat, and they should be eating it raw.

Pam

Howdy, Suvine:

I lived in the Miami area from the age of 10 to about 19-1/2, after which I escaped to California (have lived elsewhere too). Was born in Dearborn, Michigan. I remember Coral Gables well. I graduated from Miami Coral Park High School way back in 1971.

Where in the world do you keep your horse? The last time I visited Miami, the place was so built-up that a friend had to keep her horses up in Dania. She used to keep them in a pasture in Sweetwater when we were in high school.

Last time I visited my uncle in Miami (he lives in the old Brickell Estates area, in a house built by my grandparents), it was extra-rainy that summer. The humidity was so terrible that I never felt like I dried off until I was half-way back home on the airplane--even though his house is air-conditioned! Heh... not used to that kind of humidity anymore.

Pam

"There is nothing in the biology of women that makes being a

passive housewife a moral imperative "

Correct. There is a biological tendency for women to preferentially fulfill this role. There is also a biological tendency for women to be highly intellegent creatures just like men and have the intellectual capacity to pursue anything they damn well please. All this means is that there will be MORE women housewives and nurses and LESS women cops and athletes. Vice-versa for men. This is not a problem as long as the freedom is there.

Some of the stuff I've read over the years seems to indicate that the same hormones which are related to pregnancy and the attachment of a woman to her offspring, also makes the woman want to "nest." No, it's not a moral imperative. I think this is also related to a woman's (usual) greater desire for security... those women who want to be wives and mothers seem to function better when they're in a secure relationship and being taken care of.

And I don't think that all wives/mothers are "passive housewives." They may not be the CEO of some multinational corporation, but they are still working... they are raising children and running households, all of which requires at least some managerial skills.

When I was young enough, I didn't want to be a wife and mother myself, but I do realize that what these women do is WORK, even if that work tends to be looked down upon by other people. It's work that usually is regarded as not requiring the type of specialized skills for which other people would attend college or vocational school, because wife/mother skills are usually taught by one's parents.

No, it doesn't make being a wife/mother a "moral imperative," but there seem to be biological grounds for most women wanting to be wives/mothers.

I agree that this area is one where Objectivism and evolution would be at odds. But then (although I did and still do admire Ayn Rand's writings), I am not one of those people who thinks that Ayn Rand had the final answer to every last problem on the face of the earth.

This is especially true in a dash or a sprint. HOWEVER, in the supermarathon some 50 miles long, women have an advantage. Since about 40 percent of their body weight is fatty tissue (as opposed to 20 percent for a man in prime condition) they have a fat reserve which gives them greater stamina for a very long race.

But in athletic events requiring speed and strength, on average, men do better. For stamina women have an advantage.

I've also heard that at least some women also do better than men in long-distance swimming--again, because of the body fat percentage differential.

But I agree--I'm a rather big woman (6'1") and, although strong for a woman, still I'm not as strong as most men. Every time I have moved and hired professional moving men, this point has been driven home to me--whereas, in everyday life, I don't think of it all that much. The things those guys can pick up with their bare hands amaze me. Heck, my significant other is a head shorter than me, and he's stronger than I am.

Michael, what you describe is most interesting. I don't believe I have experienced that phenomenon to anywhere near the extent which you describe. I also did not always have the confidence that my voice would always be "there."

There were a couple of times when the feeling of being able to sing well could be described as the most exhilarating feeling I ever had... and I was moved to tears partly by the beauty of the sound.

Pam

Pam,

This is very interesting because I haven't thought about this for a long time.

I am not sure what the psychological mechanism is, but I can describe to you what I felt when I performed and what I have induced artists I have produced to try to feel. The results are usually marvelous.

I stepped outside of myself and handed myself over to the piece of music.

The feeling was like a complete delivery of soul—a reassignment of who I am. I was no longer Michael. There was only me and the music, and the music was my master. I no longer felt anything for my own enjoyment. I no longer had the right to my own emotions. I felt for the music, not for Michael, and became one with it.

This is strange for an Objectivist to say, but I erased my ego. I can't say that it was me focusing intently on the music. It was me serving something outside of myself, and serving up my mind, body and soul—handing over every bit of me with no exit strategy. It was an act of total reverence.

This went along with absolute trust in my ability to perform what I had studied and practiced. I would not allow myself to doubt (after the music started—before it started was another matter). Trust is not even a strong enough a word for it. It was blind faith. The idea of making a mistake or doing anything but give everything I had to the music was not within the realm of possibility or even cognition.

At the end, it was always a surprise to hear the applause. In my mind I was somewhere else.

This approach has led to some strange moments in my life. Once, after a concert I conducted (in a Campos do Jordão music festival in Brazil), while walking off stage I was led to a table where I sat down and was interviewed for a TV Cultura program for about half-an-hour, along with the festival directors and a celebrity or two. It was in Portuguese, of course, and I came off fine and elegant. But I simply do not remember a single word of what I said.

On a few occasions, even though the idea of error was not present in my mind during a concert, I did make an error. This was rarely perceived by the public. My inner reaction was so violent that I would not do anything at the moment (I was still serving the music), but after the piece ended, I would storm into my dressing room while the audience was still applauding and spit in the mirror out of pure disgust. And I would stand there staring at myself, not moving while the spittle slowly dripped down my reflection, and I would not let anyone in until I calmed down.

But when the music clicked while I was in that state, the feeling was unforgettable. This was some of the finest living I have ever done. I believe that on my death bed (if I am lucky enough to die in bed), these events will be part of the memories that will flow through my mind.

Michael

Why then would one want to take action in order to deal with the fact that one has pain which is no indication that one's life is in threat(i.e. that the requirements of your survival as set by your nature were threatened.)

Well, on a practical level, BECAUSE IT HURTS. Pain at that level might not threaten your life, but it would definitely interfere with your "activities of daily living," and it would interfere with your enjoyment and productivity in life. Plus, it would be damned annoying.

Pam,

Back in my music days, I calculate that I performed in about 1,000 classical music concerts (between orchestra and chamber music—I had a fairly popular brass quintet). I conducted only about 100 concerts or so. And I produced and performed in somewhere around 1,000 pop music shows with different artists. This does not include recording sessions, jazz bands, weddings, etc., nor pop records that I produced.

Enough about me. (I could go on all day if I let myself.) You never get completely over the stage fright. Not if you care, even after all that.

Michael

For me, worse than the stage fright was this: I wanted to perform emotionally charged music. But for the life of me, I could not figure out how to perform that kind of music without getting all emotionally worked-up while performing it, which could negatively affect the vocal quality!

For instance: The Bonnie Raitt song "I Can't Make You Love Me" always brings tears to my eyes and dredges up old pain... I don't understand how I could perform that song without getting such an emotional reaction that I couldn't sing. The crying does things to your vocal apparatus that are incompatible with good singing!!

Over the years, I have gone to see Jane Olivor in concert twice. She may not be the most technically proficient singer out there; however, she has been compared to Edith Piaf in terms of the emotionally passionate quality of her singing. She herself had such bad stage fright that she took something like a 10-year hiatus from performing (but, happily for her fans, she did go back to giving live concerts and making more albums).

Pam,

Welcome to OL!

Glad to see you here. I hope you have a good time. (I am sure we will with your sunny presence.)

Michael

Thank you, Michael. I have been lurking a while.

I'm not always sunny, but hopefully will keep my at-times grumpiness to a bare minimum. B)

I have to give Mr. Potts kudos for his bravery... getting up in front of an audience is rather scary, and some of us never get over the stage fright. When singing "Nessun Dorma," to me he looked like he was scared out of his wits, and that had eased off by the time of his final performance.

The one time I did manage to sing at a recital, the stage fright definitely interfered with doing a good job of the singing.

Thanks for the giggles, all of you!