Flame garbage from Tracinski discussion

[sjw]

NOTE FROM MSK: The posts in this thread were peeled off from the following thread: "Anthemgate" Tracinski weighs in on McCaskey and thrown here in the Garbage Pile. So I am the person who actually started this thread.

"I don't say that we shouldn't debate and expand on physics, art, or epistemology, but liberty is the fundamental that makes these things possible. Observe the spectacle that ARI is putting on for us: years and years of effort writing a controversial book on physics, countless Objectivists worried about the future of the movement, spending countless hours debating various sides of a book on physics, while just outside the door, Obama is starting push legislation to censor and regulate the one last realm where we almost have complete liberty of expression, the Internet."

The post started out well, but I get lost here. The poster suggests that something is wrong with "writing a controversial book on physics" or "debating...a book on physics [and induction]" in light of the fact that Obama is out there wreaking his havoc (which he wasn't, presumably, when the book was started), but "I don't say that we shouldn't debate and expand on physics, art, or epistemology...."?

Could you please say exactly who you are quoting here, or provide a link, Starbuckle? I assume that quote must have been from that Chip Chalmers guy's thread? These people who identify Objectivism with politics, politics, mere politics and more politics are as depressing as Peikoff himself. Rand would be rolling over in her grave to hear such narrowminded idiocy.

Ted knows I wrote it, which is why he's insulting me in this manner preemptively. Look around on this site, you can see that the goon follows me around and insults me every chance he gets.

Shayne

[william.scherk]

Look around on this site, you can see that the goon follows me around and insults me every chance he gets.

Do yourself a favour and put your tormenter on your ignore list, as has been already suggested by MSK. It is easy. You simply won't see posts from him ever again. It might give you some relief.

Click your name at the top of the screen. Click 'manage ignored users.' Scroll down on the new page. Enter the name of the person you want to ignore. Check 'Ignore Personal Conversations.' Check 'Ignore Posts.' Click 'Save changes.'

Voila !! Your stalker/tormenter disappears from your OL experience (except for inside quotes made by other posters).

[kiaer.ts]

Look around on this site, you can see that the goon follows me around and insults me every chance he gets.

Do yourself a favour and put your tormenter on your ignore list, as has been already suggested by MSK. It is easy. You simply won't see posts from him ever again. It might give you some relief.

Click your name at the top of the screen. Click 'manage ignored users.' Scroll down on the new page. Enter the name of the person you want to ignore. Check 'Ignore Personal Conversations.' Check 'Ignore Posts.' Click 'Save changes.'

Voila !! Your stalker/tormenter disappears from your OL experience (except for inside quotes made by other posters).

It won't work, William. The first problem is that sloppy quoters will repeat the blocked person's words - as Starbuckle did in this case, without citing their source - so that even if you do have them blocked, their stupid nonsense will worm its way into the conversation.

But Shayne suffers a deeper problem. Paranoid schizophrenics like him (or Borderline Personalities) pay much more attention to the voices in their own head than to reality. For instance, Shayne talks incessantly about my "stalking" him. Yet there is the fact that it was Shayne who first called me a "fool," a "foolish fool," "insane", a "narcissist", and an "asshole", not becuase I had attacked him, but because I said that quantuum non-locality didn't cause me concern. He took my comment "I am not concerned" to be a personal attack in secret code and made it the sole topic of discussion on the Harriman Thread - so much so that Robert Cambell and others were driven to begin new discussions to get away from him. Then, after a short hiatus, came the "Patents Violate Rights" thread. I did not first address Shayne there. He questioned me. So, I made the mistake of treating him like a sane person, and within two posts he was back to calling me gratuitous insults. Well, it was at that point that I blocked his posts. But it was reported to me by AS that Shayne was calling me a worm and a stalker. (Poor Shayne can't take a vacation form his own imagination, can he?) And I received private emails suggesting that I take other actions regarding this miscreant. My policy has been to state the facts and to ignore him. It's not like he ever says anything interesting enough to warrant the froth he spits.

But don't take my word for it. If you don't think Shayne is insane, just read his posts at RoR, or, especially, his "review" of Harriman at Amazon where he takes credit for having taught Harriman and Peikoff a thing or two, and having made them realize certain of their mistakes - without, of course, getting any published credit from them for the service he rendered them.

Politics, politics, politics. That is all that exists for the Objectionist Lunatic Fringe - because not science nor beauty nor any objective subject holds any reality. Only the thoughts that other people are transmitting into their brains, tormenting them, exist for these unlucky god-touched fools.

Yes, sHAYne, I caN HEAr yoUR THoughts now, even as you ReAd this, mwahahahahaha!

But seriously, Shayne. Follow William's advice. Do that, and stop listening to my voice in your head. We will both be much happier for it.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Ted Keer

[Brant Gaede]

The vitriol of "goon" and that other stuff seems preferable to that of "insane" and that other stuff.

--Brant

if it's bad but not illegal I've done 63% of it, but only when the cowards cow in church

Edited October 2, 2010 by Brant Gaede

[sjw]

The vitriol of "goon" seems preferable to that of "insane" or that other stuff.

--Brant

if it's bad but not illegal I've done 63% of it, but only when the cowards cow in church

I call him a "worm" because he stalks me and at random intervals and various random places in OL launches gratuitous and sweeping attacks on my character, just like the one above. He is positively obsessed with me, I certainly don't buy the story that I'm on his ignore list, if he really didn't want to hear from me he'd keep his distance, he wouldn't insult me everywhere by name. Instead he gets all intimate with me, keeping a journal of where I said this and that, looking me up wherever I go, keeping close tabs on me. As I understand things, he is gay, perhaps I should tell him that the feelings are not mutual. Besides, I'm already married. And it's a bit creepy as I've never met the guy.

Seriously though, it is one thing when debaters get hostile in the middle of a debate. I understand not wanting to moderate that. But it is quite another when a creep like Ted holds a nasty vendetta and attacks at random intervals and in random threads with these sweeping character assassinations. If Michael allows it to continue, I suppose I will follow Philip out the door.

Shayne

[Brant Gaede]

The vitriol of "goon" seems preferable to that of "insane" or that other stuff.

--Brant

if it's bad but not illegal I've done 63% of it, but only when the cowards cow in church

I call him a "worm" because he stalks me and at random intervals and various random places in OL launches gratuitous and sweeping attacks on my character, just like the one above. He is positively obsessed with me, I certainly don't buy the story that I'm on his ignore list, if he really didn't want to hear from me he'd keep his distance, he wouldn't insult me everywhere by name. Instead he gets all intimate with me, keeping a journal of where I said this and that, looking me up wherever I go, keeping close tabs on me. As I understand things, he is gay, perhaps I should tell him that the feelings are not mutual. Besides, I'm already married. And it's a bit creepy as I've never met the guy.

Seriously though, it is one thing when debaters get hostile in the middle of a debate. I understand not wanting to moderate that. But it is quite another when a creep like Ted holds a nasty vendetta and attacks at random intervals and in random threads with these sweeping character assassinations. If Michael allows it to continue, I suppose I will follow Philip out the door.

Shayne

Well, Shayne, as I've said before, you put one space too many between your name and your post. You are obviously nutz.

--Brant

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Shayne,

Ted has called me even worse names and I own the site. But he piped down.

On this food-fight between you guys, why don't both you and he pipe down a bit?

There are only 3 ways someone can learn about you:

1. Through that person's observations of what you say and what you do, including his/her own interactions with you.

2. Through what you say about you.

3. Through what others say and do about you.

That's it.

I can assure you that what I think about you is not influenced by what Ted says. My view is strongly based on the first (my own observations of what you say and do). I do use the other two, but they are way too often unreliable to be a good standard, so I take that into account.

Ditto for Ted. I observe what he says and does. That takes precedence in my evaluation over what you (and others) say about him.

I believe that most people on OL use the same system.

(As to ganging up and peer-pressure, I try to keep that under reasonable control. Anyway, I don't see that operating in this case.)

I judge you both have really good minds and you both have poor people skills (but both are getting better). And you don't like each other--apparently this is a long-standing feud.

But you are both adults. Work it out or ignore each other. Or insist on keeping the food-fight up. Your choice. The nastiness level has not been reached to affect the forum's health, so I don't see a reason to intervene. You guys choose to do what you do, so you guys can choose to do differently if you want to..

Just be aware that the only opinion either of you is going to sway the public with by food-fighting is that people are going to think you guys like to food-fight. Nobody is going to think better or worse of you because of what Ted says about you, and vice-versa.

I recommend setting a higher bar for yourself and, once you have expressed your views and the reasons for them, ignore what the other guy does. If it gets childish and goes on too long, and you have set a higher bar for yourself, I assure you people will stand up for you. The people on this site are really good folks.

Michael

[9thdoctor]

I call him [Ted] a "worm" because he stalks me and at random intervals and various random places in OL launches gratuitous and sweeping attacks on my character, just like the one above.

Is that what worms do? No, no, try this:

“He is a butterfly, who toys with women's hearts and throws them away like soiled gloves!”

Roderick Spode, The Code of the Woosters, P.G. Wodehouse

When you called me an idiot, hypocrite, and chronic liar I recognized that you have a case of illiterate tourette’s syndrome, so I tried ignoring you, but you wouldn’t ignore me. Presumably you had better things to do before your return to OL in August, other fora to infest, whatever it was, I say it’s time you got back to it. You’re the most foul individual I’ve encountered in list-land; yes, worse than Perigo in my estimation. The sewage flow is more constant and concentrated, while never intelligent or entertaining.

As I understand things, he is gay, perhaps I should tell him that the feelings are not mutual.

"I have a rule of thumb for such clerics and have never known it to fail: Set your watch and sit back, and pretty soon they will be found sprawling lustily on the floor of the men's room."

God’s Bigmouths, Christopher Hitchens

In your case, instead of the men’s room we’ll have this unedifying spectacle:

If Michael allows it to continue, I suppose I will follow Philip out the door.

Well don’t let that door hit your braying ass on the way out! Good riddance.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Ninth Doctor

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

(sigh)

I guess I have to include Dennis in my observations...

Michael

[sjw]

Shayne,

Ted has called me even worse names and I own the site. But he piped down.

On this food-fight between you guys, why don't both you and he pipe down a bit?

There are only 3 ways someone can learn about you:

1. Through that person's observations of what you say and what you do, including his/her own interactions with you.

2. Through what you say about you.

3. Through what others say and do about you.

That's it.

So gratuitous injection of attacks at random places is allowed here. Suppose I take your policy and apply it to you everywhere. Somehow I think that isn't going to fly.

And regarding #3, Ted, obsessive and deranged as he is, is going to keep wasting his time and life constructing lengthy attacks on me. According to #3 this influences what someone learns about me. Combine this fact with the preceding and what you see going on is Ted purposefully trying to wage a character war on me and harm my reputation. He intelligently selects aspects he knows he can exaggerate and blow out of proportion in order to most effectively do this. Do you really think my best response is to ignore what he says? Because I think my alternatives are to leave OL or respond in some manner.

I think you're taking toleration way too far and in the context of this thread creating a laughing stock of yourself and your site in front of Randians. Which in its own way is justice for what you are permitting to transpire with Ted's behavior. At least with Randians I know that the sort of thing Ted is don't wouldn't be tolerated, and on that count I certainly side with them.

This is a matter of tolerating injustice. As I said before, I am not talking here about two guys getting into a heated debate. I am talking about systematic and sustained character attacks spread all over the place. And you won't even give Ted a warning. Let me assure you, if you thought this site might appeal to disillusioned Randians willing to explore, your behavior here will completely reverse their course.

Shayne

[9thdoctor]

I guess I have to include Dennis in my observations...

That’s fine, so long as Shayne follows “Philip out the door”. But in his case, barring the offering of some utterly out of character apologies, I say stay out. I wish Shayne the best of luck finding people who will put up with him. Phil's simpatico as a teddy bear by comparison.

Here’s a new business he could try:

He's sure got the attitude for it.

So gratuitous injection of attacks at random places is allowed here.

You've gotten away with it enough times, you have to ask?

I think my alternatives are to leave OL or respond in some manner.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Ninth Doctor

[Brant Gaede]

Where is Phil when we need him?

--Brant

[Selene]

Shayne,

Ted has called me even worse names and I own the site. But he piped down.

On this food-fight between you guys, why don't both you and he pipe down a bit?

There are only 3 ways someone can learn about you:

1. Through that person's observations of what you say and what you do, including his/her own interactions with you.

2. Through what you say about you.

3. Through what others say and do about you.

That's it.

So gratuitous injection of attacks at random places is allowed here. Suppose I take your policy and apply it to you everywhere. Somehow I think that isn't going to fly.

And regarding #3, Ted, obsessive and deranged as he is, is going to keep wasting his time and life constructing lengthy attacks on me. According to #3 this influences what someone learns about me. Combine this fact with the preceding and what you see going on is Ted purposefully trying to wage a character war on me and harm my reputation. He intelligently selects aspects he knows he can exaggerate and blow out of proportion in order to most effectively do this. Do you really think my best response is to ignore what he says? Because I think my alternatives are to leave OL or respond in some manner.

I think you're taking toleration way too far and in the context of this thread creating a laughing stock of yourself and your site in front of Randians. Which in its own way is justice for what you are permitting to transpire with Ted's behavior. At least with Randians I know that the sort of thing Ted is don't wouldn't be tolerated, and on that count I certainly side with them.

This is a matter of tolerating injustice. As I said before, I am not talking here about two guys getting into a heated debate. I am talking about systematic and sustained character attacks spread all over the place. And you won't even give Ted a warning. Let me assure you, if you thought this site might appeal to disillusioned Randians willing to explore, your behavior here will completely reverse their course.

Shayne

Shayne:

Yes, you certainly can ignore what he says. The choice is yours to make. Secondly, you could choose to leave OL. Third, you could continue to respond in some manner.

As Yogi Berra cleverly said, when you get to a fork in the road, take it.

As to Michael creating a laughing stock of himself in front of Randians, I think that is also a non-starter.

If you care to hear the opinion of someone who has no dog in this fight, you doth protest too much. Frankly, other than an occasional chuckle from a particular parry, usually by one of Dennis' particularly sick sense of humor which I share, the "junior high school" tenor of name calling is ...frankly, boring, banal and beneath both you and Ted.

Just my two cents, for what it is worth.

Adam

[Mikee]

My notes from five years ago on SoloHQ about Shayne: "The emotional maturity of an infant. Doesn't know the meaning of objectivity."

I usually don't mind abrasive smart-asses much because I at least know where they're coming from. Can't stand the smile in your face stab you in the back types. But Shayne really pushes the envelope with his insults. He doesn't get the value of disagreement. I value Ted's contributions highly and agree with his pov on most things. I don't think he should have to tolerate the insults Shayne enjoys dishing out and not respond in kind. I won't miss Shayne.

[sjw]

As to Michael creating a laughing stock of himself in front of Randians, I think that is also a non-starter.

If you care to hear the opinion of someone who has no dog in this fight, you doth protest too much.

Let's be honest here Selene. Any protesting whatsoever would be taken by you as protesting too much.

I touched a nerve some time back, so Ted carries this irrational vendetta against me all over the forum. He's a prissy little man with a fragile little ego (a lot like Ninth) and can't get over the fact that I poked a hole in his vanity in some thread or other. So he carries this hostility everywhere he goes. I'd forget even what he did in this thread after not very long and interact with him for what he says, holding no grudge and ignoring the fact that he's a prissy little man with a fragile little ego, but the problem is that he can't forget. He can't let go. He is completely obsessed with the fact that I really just nailed who he is. And he knows who he is. Instead of fixing himself, he wants to shoot the messenger. Over and over and over ad nauseam. Which makes him an even more pathetic person than I originally identified him to be.

This goes for Ninth too -- they are both the same prissy little boys with a fragile self-esteem, evidenced by the fact that they can never really get over some apparently very well targeted insult on my part. I suppose I should be flattered by my stalkers for their coming to me over and over and over again and showing me just how right I was about them.

Edit: I should add Mikee to the list since he's been stalking me even longer than Ted and Ninth. I mean look at the obsession. He goes digging around old forums for some insult that I've long forgotten. Whatever I said in whatever context, it struck Mikee at his very soul, and after all these years he's been neither able to redeem himself nor forget.

Shayne

Edited October 2, 2010 by sjw

[Mikee]

As to Michael creating a laughing stock of himself in front of Randians, I think that is also a non-starter.

If you care to hear the opinion of someone who has no dog in this fight, you doth protest too much.

Let's be honest here Selene. Any protesting whatsoever would be taken by you as protesting too much.

I touched a nerve some time back, so Ted carries this irrational vendetta against me all over the forum. He's a prissy little man with a fragile little ego (a lot like Ninth) and can't get over the fact that I poked a hole in his vanity in some thread or other. So he carries this hostility everywhere he goes. I'd forget even what he did in this thread after not very long and interact with him for what he says, holding no grudge and ignoring the fact that he's a prissy little man with a fragile little ego, but the problem is that he can't forget. He can't let go. He is completely obsessed with the fact that I really just nailed who he is. And he knows who he is. Instead of fixing himself, he wants to shoot the messenger. Over and over and over ad nauseam. Which makes him an even more pathetic person than I originally identified him to be.

This goes for Ninth too -- they are both the same prissy little boys with a fragile self-esteem, evidenced by the fact that they can never really get over some apparently very well targeted insult on my part. I suppose I should be flattered by my stalkers for their coming to me over and over and over again and showing me just how right I was about them.

Edit: I should add Mikee to the list since he's been stalking me even longer than Ted and Ninth.

Shayne

Shayne,

You live in a nightmare world of your own creation completely disassociated with reality.

[sjw]

Shayne,

You live in a nightmare world of your own creation completely disassociated with reality.

You are a man of puny character, and I'm sure I will rediscover this about you over and over and over again so long as I choose to participate in these online forums. Even though I will have long forgotten about you, you will not have forgotten about me. Such is the nature of your small-minded obsessiveness. Go ahead, keep paying me the compliment of proving to me how important I am to you; you are of no importance to me, other than that of an annoying little mosquito biting my arm and after I swat it I only find another like it next summer.

And perhaps that's the most important truth here. Michael can't filter out all the tiny little prissy boys who carry grudges against someone who should not even be important to them for years and years. So I guess I am going to have to retract my request that these tiny little boys are kicked out.

Shayne

[sjw]

This is a matter of tolerating injustice. As I said before, I am not talking here about two guys getting into a heated debate. I am talking about systematic and sustained character attacks spread all over the place. And you won't even give Ted a warning. Let me assure you, if you thought this site might appeal to disillusioned Randians willing to explore, your behavior here will completely reverse their course.

Shayne

For the record Michael, I take this back. Your wisdom is greater. If these touchy little prissy boys want to waste their time dredging the internet for something I said 5 years ago to take out of context and attack me with to console their tiny little egos, there's not much to do about it other than call it what it is. I hate taxes, but I still pay them. This is just another one of those taxes.

Shayne

[Mikee]

Shayne,

You live in a nightmare world of your own creation completely disassociated with reality.

You are a man of puny character, and I'm sure I will rediscover this about you over and over and over again so long as I choose to participate in these online forums. Even though I will have long forgotten about you, you will not have forgotten about me. Such is the nature of your small-minded obsessiveness. Go ahead, keep paying me the compliment of proving to me how important I am to you; you are of no importance to me, other than that of an annoying little mosquito biting my arm and after I swat it I only find another like it next summer.

And perhaps that's the most important truth here. Michael can't filter out all the tiny little prissy boys who carry grudges against someone who should not even be important to them for years and years. So I guess I am going to have to retract my request that these tiny little boys are kicked out.

Shayne

Jesus Christ Shayne, it took me weeks to connect the Shayne I had a few interactions with years ago to the Shayne on this forum. Only after you insulted me rather than responding to my post on patents did I notice the familiarity and went and looked you up. So now, two or three posts of mine are an "obsession"? Do you ever take the trouble to read what you write or is it all stream of consciousness angst?

[sjw]

Jesus Christ Shayne, it took me weeks to connect the Shayne I had a few interactions with years ago to the Shayne on this forum.

Lick your wounds, fail to learn, go dredge the internet to attack my character when you fail at dealing with my arguments in context, rinse and repeat, because that is who you are Mikee. Don't fight it, embrace it. Go all out. Wallow in it. Watch Ted, he knows what he's doing. Ninth seems to lack a little heart though, the best he can muster is silly Youtube videos. I'm not sure about him, he might just grow up one day. Either that or he's so failing in intellect that it's the most he can muster. Ted though, he's the master. I suggest learning from him.

Shayne

[9thdoctor]

they can never really get over some apparently very well targeted insult on my part.

Alternately, having experienced your illiterate Tourette-rants, they view you the same way anyone would view a random stranger that suddenly puked on him. And who then won’t stay away.

[Mikee]

Jesus Christ Shayne, it took me weeks to connect the Shayne I had a few interactions with years ago to the Shayne on this forum.

Lick your wounds, fail to learn, go dredge the internet to attack my character when you fail at dealing with my arguments in context, rinse and repeat, because that is who you are Mikee. Don't fight it, embrace it. Go all out. Wallow in it. Watch Ted, he knows what he's doing. Ninth seems to lack a little heart though, the best he can muster is silly Youtube videos. I'm not sure about him, he might just grow up one day. Either that or he's so failing in intellect that it's the most he can muster. Ted though, he's the master. I suggest learning from him.

Shayne

Ted is brighter that you are Shayne, more interesting and doesn't hate virtually all of humanity. So, thanks for the advice.

[sjw]

they can never really get over some apparently very well targeted insult on my part.

Alternately, having experienced your illiterate Tourette-rants, they view you the same way anyone would view a random stranger that suddenly puked on him. And who then won’t stay away.

So now Selene's "protest too much" really does apply. Note that you keep initiating contact with me, it is not I who keep initiating it with you. You are the one who takes every opportunity to relive every past slight that in your deranged view of things you think I gave you. I forget about you until you remind me of your existence and its nature, just like the mosquito that bit my arm last night.

You have a choice. You can take your wretchedness to new heights by observing and learning from Ted, or you can keep it up with your pathetic little Youtube videos, or you can learn and grow. I wish you'd pick the last. I'm not the type who holds grudges, I'd forget about what you've been doing over time.

Did I wrongly insult you and that is what you are obsessed about? That I was actually wrong and unfair? Did you try to correct the perceived mistake, or did you escalate it to a new level? Because I'm quite sure that if I really had made a mistake, and I don't claim to be perfect, sometimes I do, I would have apologized if you had pointed it out in a reasonable way.

Shayne

[sjw]

Ted is brighter that you are Shayne, more interesting and doesn't hate virtually all of humanity. So, thanks for the advice.

Such is the tax burden of people like this....

I don't hate virtually all of humanity. I don't hate Mikee in spite of his clear hatred of me. I do hate evil, and I hate violations of individual rights, and I hate apathy toward evil. And I hate pompous self-righteous narcissism of people who say "check your premises" and then don't check theirs. But I don't hate them. I hate the evil that is within them.

Shayne

[Brant Gaede]

Maybe Michael should split off these posts onto a new thread.

--Brant