Jonathan Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I was just reviewing some old stuff online and came across this, and was wondering if anyone had taken Gores up on his bet, and, if so, how he's working out as an indentured servant.J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 What a buffoonish bet!Who would let a buffoon be their servant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syrakusos Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The entire topic thread was a bittersweet review of old times not forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikee Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I think Dean was still making his plans for college in 2006. I'm a big fan of Dean Gores as I am of anyone who reaches big and makes big goals. No risk, no reward. Dean is the stuff movers and shakers are made of. Be wrong 1000 times, then hit it out of the park. Afraid to be wrong? Go sit on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I think Dean was still making his plans for college in 2006. I'm a big fan of Dean Gores as I am of anyone who reaches big and makes big goals. No risk, no reward. Dean is the stuff movers and shakers are made of. Be wrong 1000 times, then hit it out of the park. Afraid to be wrong? Go sit on the bench.I know nothing about him. I agree with your game plan though.I was absent from the "O" wars on the internet, thankfully! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDS Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I think Dean was still making his plans for college in 2006. I'm a big fan of Dean Gores as I am of anyone who reaches big and makes big goals. No risk, no reward. Dean is the stuff movers and shakers are made of. Be wrong 1000 times, then hit it out of the park. Afraid to be wrong? Go sit on the bench.Mikee: I'm not sure defining consciousness, when it has been done by qualiied others rather sufficiently, is the stuff of movers and shakers. But I do agree with your over-arching point. I read your comment before I saw the actual wager and have to admit I was expecting something quite different than that--something with less of a blowhard component, if you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I actually met Dean once. It was at the 50th Anniversary of AS celebration in Washington.We didn't get along online back then, or I should say, he didn't get along with me. He went on a really weird binge of posting right after every post I made, calling me a looter and linking to the same place (which I would have to look up to recall--but I do recall it was odd in many of the contexts he did that). Eventually he got tired and stopped. I don't remember ever being cross with him, even during that phase.Oddly, enough, we did get along face to face. Not a hostile peep out of him. On the contrary, when we first met and he heard my name, he energetically stuck his hand out as an offer to shake mine and had a big-ass smile on his face. Go figure.I wish him well. He's confused at times, but he's a good kid.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) While I was reading RoR closely, I remember Dean had what seemed like a manic episode. He got support and came down from the high within a month. I sometimes wonder at his (and my, and others') exuberant over-reach. Perhaps he was in the midst of an episode during the time above ... ?-- here is Dean describing one episode. Edited January 10, 2014 by william.scherk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanwins Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 The mocking Jonathan,Know that I have discovered the answers to Kurt's questions. Its was in the year 2013 that I finally did (2 years beyond the 5 year bet deadline). I have not yet made a good presentation of my answers, still a work in progress (objectivetranshumanism.org). No, no one bet me, nor attempted to make any kind of bet with less at stake. I did become a millionare though, through different means.I don't think I've written an article on consciousness yet there. I doubt that most will agree with me because there are a lot of prerequisites and worldview issues that most are unwilling or unable to resolve. No, I have not yet created "artificial intelligence" that is as intelligent as humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanwins Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Michael,Water under the bridge. I'll have to look back at what happened, maybe I owe you an apology. I don't really remember... which is part of my character... I generally forget most of what happened in the past, and only remember how things work.Looking back...Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Dean,Don't worry about it. Like I said, you're a good kid. I even thought so back then. btw - I skimmed a little on your site and I believe you make an unwarranted (or better, inaccurate) assumption in the section on God. You state over and over that people are trying to trick you into believing this or that. This assumes that all these people trying to trick you know better, or that they don't give a damn about truth and know they don't. Some might be that way, but is that the case of all? Or even most?If you believe this is so, how do you know it? Have you identified this correctly and by what means?That's a premise I believe would be a good one to check.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanwins Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Michael,You state over and over that people are trying to trick you into believing this or that. This assumes that all these people trying to trick you know better, or that they don't give a damn about truth and know they don't. Some might be that way, but is that the case of all? Or even most?If you believe this is so, how do you know it? Have you identified this correctly and by what means?Thanks for the feedback. "all know better": Yes, I agree, most don't know better, and don't have malicious intent nor intend to manipulate. Only a small portion of people recognize the manipulation and take advantage of it. My mother, and even my childhood church pastor, and most of my mother's side of the family from my perspective don't have such recognition nore intentions. Never the less, despite their good intentions, through thier actions they still do cause others to be tricked/manipulated. Does this satisfy you? I will have to add this note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Dean,Satisfaction?!!Wrong question.Shit, I'm a former drug addict.Here's a word that might be more accurate: trap.A trap, in the hierarchy of concepts, is broader than trickery. You can have an inadvertent trap and a manipulative one.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 Know that I have discovered the answers to Kurt's questions.No, you haven't. You've only been fooled by your exaggerated sense of self-adoration into believing that you have answered them.Its was in the year 2013 that I finally did (2 years beyond the 5 year bet deadline). I have not yet made a good presentation of my answers, still a work in progress (objectivetranshumanism.org).Yeah. Me too. I've also solved every other problem in the world, cured every disease, and answered every riddle. I just haven't made good presentations of my solutions yet, they're still works in progress. And I did it when I was 2 years old. That's how smart I was back then. Just think how smart I am now.I don't think I've written an article on consciousness yet there. I doubt that most will agree with me because there are a lot of prerequisites and worldview issues that most are unwilling or unable to resolve.Oh, of course. It's not possible that your ideas are flawed, and that other people will disagree with you because they recognize your ideas to be puerile. No, the problem must lie in your critics. There must be something wrong with them if they disagree with the intellectual giant Dean Gores!J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikee Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Know that I have discovered the answers to Kurt's questions.No, you haven't. You've only been fooled by your exaggerated sense of self-adoration into believing that you have answered them.Its was in the year 2013 that I finally did (2 years beyond the 5 year bet deadline). I have not yet made a good presentation of my answers, still a work in progress (objectivetranshumanism.org).Yeah. Me too. I've also solved every other problem in the world, cured every disease, and answered every riddle. I just haven't made good presentations of my solutions yet, they're still works in progress. And I did it when I was 2 years old. That's how smart I was back then. Just think how smart I am now.I don't think I've written an article on consciousness yet there. I doubt that most will agree with me because there are a lot of prerequisites and worldview issues that most are unwilling or unable to resolve.Oh, of course. It's not possible that your ideas are flawed, and that other people will disagree with you because they recognize your ideas to be puerile. No, the problem must lie in your critics. There must be something wrong with them if they disagree with the intellectual giant Dean Gores!JGee Jonathan, does the fact that someone has a functioning sense of self esteem somehow offend you? Or is it just something people should aspire to but not actually achieve? You know, I never read your stuff because I don't give a crap about your snobbery about art, but I never felt the need to mention it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 Gee Jonathan, does the fact that someone has a functioning sense of self esteem somehow offend you?The idea with actual self-esteem, as opposed to pseudo-self-esteem, is that one's judgement of oneself is based in reality. That's what healthy self-esteem is. Self-esteem is earned. In contrast, you seem to have bought into the modern, polluted concept of self-esteem, in which one judges oneself to be brilliant despite the reality that one is not.Or is it just something people should aspire to but not actually achieve?That's what I'm saying: Aspiring to something doesn't equal achieving it! Don't congratulate yourself merely for aspiring to something!You know, I never read your stuff because I don't give a crap about your snobbery about art, but I never felt the need to mention it...Heh, yes it's clear that you never read my stuff, because if you did, you'd realize that it's ridiculous to claim that I exhibit "snobbery" about art. What I actually do is oppose others' snobbery, and laugh at how little they know about the subject of art while posing as philosophical gurus. I oppose the Objectivist habit of asserting the superiority of one's own tastes, of judging others to be inferior for their tastes, and of attempting to convert others to one's own tastes.J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 Btw, it's funny that you admire the "self-esteem" of a person's stating his mere aspirations, but that you view my confidence in arguing subjects about which I have extensive knowledge, decades of hands-on experience and real-world accomplishments as "snobbery." It sounds to me as if you're the one who is offended by others' earned self-esteem. You're projecting.J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikee Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 "What I actually do is oppose others' snobbery, and laugh at how little they know about the subject of art while posing as philosophical gurus."Wow, that seems mighty pretentious, someone who didn't know better would think you were a puffed up effete snob with a false sense of self esteem. The fact is, you know as little about Dean and his accomplishments as I do about yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 "What I actually do is oppose others' snobbery, and laugh at how little they know about the subject of art while posing as philosophical gurus."Wow, that seems mighty pretentious, someone who didn't know better would think you were a puffed up effete snob with a false sense of self esteem.Really? My laughing at others' pretentiousness seems pretentious to you? But aren't you then being pretentious, by your own implied standards, for calling me pretentious?In every discussion, I offer substance to back up my positions. Where's Dean's substance? Right now, it's "not a good presentation" and a "work in progress."The fact is, you know as little about Dean and his accomplishments as I do about yours.How do you imagine that you know how much I know (or don't know) about Dean and his accomplishments, and whether or not they validate his self-adoration?J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merjet Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 In every discussion, I offer substance to back up my positions. LOL. See here where I challenged him to back up his bald assertions. His response, the post after mine, was in effect, "Blank out." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 In every discussion, I offer substance to back up my positions. LOL. See here where I challenged him to back up his bald assertions.Okay, let me amend my statement: In every discussion, other than the one single example that Merlin found, I offer substance to back up my positions.His response, the post after mine, was in effect, "Blank out."Really? You're parroting Rand with the phrase "blank out"? How original! How individualistic!!!Um, I didn't "blank out." I simply had no interest in discussing the issue with you. As I explained on the thread, I didn't join the discussion to discuss your understanding of Kant with you, but only to confirm my suspicions that you hadn't been formally educated on Kant -- that you hadn't had the opportunity to receive expert feedback from professors whose views of Kant haven't been tainted by Objectivist misinterpretations. You confirmed my suspicions, and my sole purpose of joining the thread was therefore achieved.J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Gee Jonathan, does the fact that someone has a functioning sense of self esteem somehow offend you? Or is it just something people should aspire to but not actually achieve? Self esteem is a functioning ongoing evaluation of one's self worth and efficacy, a combination of thought and emotion. It's not whether one has any, but how much one has. It's an interesting question if one can have too much self esteem especially as its measurement is subjective. In my experience, however, it's not for display as such. How does one do that?--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merjet Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I didn't join the discussion to discuss your understanding of Kant with you, but only to confirm my suspicions that you hadn't been formally educated on Kant -- that you hadn't had the opportunity to receive expert feedback from professors whose views of Kant haven't been tainted by Objectivist misinterpretations. Despite your pompous declaration to the contrary, there is more than one route to understanding Kant. Not all genuine learning occurs in a classroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 This thread is a mistake. What's the point of blow-torching someone's ass? Soon we'll be five men and one woman talking to each other with few others reading it.--Brantmight be that way already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I farted once in a bar and cleared out the entire pool table area how's that for blow torching !? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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