My AmazonReview of "The Reasonable Woman," allegedly by Wendy McElroy

[caroljane]

O'biwan is a lawyer...

Biden is a lawyer...

The prosecution rests.

American lawyers. So was Lincoln, so was Darrow.

I just watched "Abe Lincoln in Illinois" the other night and saw to my delight that his first law partner was one John Stuart - the name of my father, my son and the founder of our clan who emigrated to Massachusetts in 1702. Considering the enthusiasm with which the Stuarts have bred and inflicted ourselves on all parts of the continent, he might even be a distant relation. Of MSK's too!

[Brant Gaede]

True. Behind every action taken, there is a motive, or a cluster of motives.

Ahh, hence the derivation of the cluster fuck. A group of attorneys negotiating!

First, let's not kill allthe lawyers. Our OL friend and valued lodge Brother PDS is one of them.

I myself got a good LSAT score and was encouraged to go to law school, by a professor who told me "You think like a lawyer", though I am not sure that was a compliment even from him. I didn't go, because I knew I would never be willing to work that hard, but I have a lingering respect for those who were.

Also, my favourite part of unionizing was the meetings with the local's lawyer and hearing his wonderful, hilarious war stories which illustrated just how breathtakingly wrongheaded and dumb our glorious workers can be, outdone in boneheadedness only by their management opponents.

I just tried a practice LSAT and retreated with my tail between my legs. I did get the first question right but was too smart to try answering another. I'll try again in two days after certain preparations. I have to revive my ego.

--Brant

smart is as smart does

[Selene]

O'biwan is a lawyer...

Biden is a lawyer...

The prosecution rests.

American lawyers. So was Lincoln, so was Darrow.

I just watched "Abe Lincoln in Illinois" the other night and saw to my delight that his first law partner was one John Stuart - the name of my father, my son and the founder of our clan who emigrated to Massachusetts in 1702. Considering the enthusiasm with which the Stuarts have bred and inflicted ourselves on all parts of the continent, he might even be a distant relation. Of MSK's too!

Lincoln - suspended Habeaus Corpus, over 500,000 Americans killed and not smart enough to duck.

Darrow - an exception to the rule

[caroljane]

John Grisham! Scott Turow!

Maybe you could live without them, but how much fun would that be?

[George H. Smith]

O'biwan is a lawyer...

Biden is a lawyer...

The prosecution rests.

American lawyers. So was Lincoln, so was Darrow.

I just watched "Abe Lincoln in Illinois" the other night and saw to my delight that his first law partner was one John Stuart - the name of my father, my son and the founder of our clan who emigrated to Massachusetts in 1702. Considering the enthusiasm with which the Stuarts have bred and inflicted ourselves on all parts of the continent, he might even be a distant relation. Of MSK's too!

Massachusetts? So you have...ahem...American "loyalists" in your family history? Many loyalists fled to Canada during the American Revolution, as I'm sure you know.

Any relation to the Stuart royal family? When you propose a toast, do you pass your glass over a bowl of water?

Ghs

Ghs

[Selene]

John Grisham! Scott Turow!

Maybe you could live without them, but how much fun would that be?

Roy Cohn

Alger Hiss

John Ehrlichman

Spiro Agnew

Charles Colson

Sandy "that's not a secret document in my pants" Berger

Lynne "I love terrorists" Stewart

[caroljane]

John Grisham! Scott Turow!

Maybe you could live without them, but how much fun would that be?

Roy Cohn

Alger Hiss

John Ehrlichman

Spiro Agnew

Charles Colson

Sandy "that's not a secret document in my pants" Berger

Lynne "I love terrorists" Stewart

OK, you certainly have a point with this group, though I have heard that Erlichman did a pretty good limbo when he had enough beer in him.

I must say that Cohn is one of the most loathesome human beings I have ever heard about. and didn't James Woods do an amazing job of -playing him onscreen?What an underrated actor.

[George H. Smith]

John Grisham! Scott Turow!

Maybe you could live without them, but how much fun would that be?

Roy Cohn

Alger Hiss

John Ehrlichman

Spiro Agnew

Charles Colson

Sandy "that's not a secret document in my pants" Berger

Lynne "I love terrorists" Stewart

You forgot Lionel Hutz of the Simpsons (voiced by the late Phil Hartman), who claimed to have studied at Harvard, Yale, MIT, Oxford, the Sorbonne, and the Louvre. Hutz ran “I Can’t Believe It’s A Law Firm!” out of a shopping mall in Springfield. His business card, which turned into a sponge when you put it water, read:

LIONEL HUTZ

ATTORNEY AT LAW

AS SEEN ON TV!

KLondike 5-LAWW

CLOGGING OUR COURTS SINCE 1976

Hutz: I will like to talk to you about bringing legal action to the fiend who did this to your boy.

Homer: Well the fiend who did this to my boy is my boss. Besides, the doctor says it's just a bump on the head and a broken toe, nothing serious.

Hutz: Pfft. Doctors. Doctors are idiots! There is no telling what type of permanent injuries he might have. You might have to wait on him hand and foot for the rest of his natural life. That's the down side. Now here is the good part. You can ching ching ching cash in on this tragedy.

Homer: Wow.

###

Hutz: Mr. Simpson, this is the most blatant case of fraudulent advertising since my suit against the film, "The Never-Ending Story".

Homer: So. Do you think I have a case?

Hutz: Homer, I don't use the word "hero" very often, but you are the greatest hero in American history.

Homer: Woo hoo!

###

Judge: Mr. Hutz w've been in here for four hours. Do you have any evidence at all?

Hutz: Well, Your Honor. We've plenty of hearsay and conjecture. Those are kinds of evidence.

Ghs

[caroljane]

John Grisham! Scott Turow!

Maybe you could live without them, but how much fun would that be?

Roy Cohn

Alger Hiss

John Ehrlichman

Spiro Agnew

Charles Colson

Sandy "that's not a secret document in my pants" Berger

Lynne "I love terrorists" Stewart

You forgot Lionel Hutz of the Simpsons (voiced by the late Phil Hartman), who claimed to have studied at Harvard, Yale, MIT, Oxford, the Sorbonne, and the Louvre. Hutz ran “I Can’t Believe It’s A Law Firm!” out of a shopping mall in Springfield. His business card, which turned into a sponge when you put it water, read:

LIONEL HUTZ

ATTORNEY AT LAW

AS SEEN ON TV!

KLondike 5-LAWW

CLOGGING OUR COURTS SINCE 1976

Hutz: I will like to talk to you about bringing legal action to the fiend who did this to your boy.

Homer: Well the fiend who did this to my boy is my boss. Besides, the doctor says it's just a bump on the head and a broken toe, nothing serious.

Hutz: Pfft. Doctors. Doctors are idiots! There is no telling what type of permanent injuries he might have. You might have to wait on him hand and foot for the rest of his natural life. That's the down side. Now here is the good part. You can ching ching ching cash in on this tragedy.

Homer: Wow.

###

Hutz: Mr. Simpson, this is the most blatant case of fraudulent advertising since my suit against the film, "The Never-Ending Story".

Homer: So. Do you think I have a case?

Hutz: Homer, I don't use the word "hero" very often, but you are the greatest hero in American history.

Homer: Woo hoo!

###

Judge: Mr. Hutz w've been in here for four hours. Do you have any evidence at all?

Hutz: Well, Your Honor. We've plenty of hearsay and conjecture. Those are kinds of evidence.

Ghs

just wonderful, I have not seen many Simpson episodes. "Clogging our courts since 1976" alone is worth the price of admission, thanks for sharing!

[George H. Smith]

just wonderful, I have not seen many Simpson episodes. "Clogging our courts since 1976" alone is worth the price of admission, thanks for sharing!

Here is a pop quiz: In what book on the Simpsons am I quoted?

100 points (worth absolutely nothing) for the first correct answer. You can even google for the answer, but I doubt if you will find anything.

Ghs

[Bosco]

just wonderful, I have not seen many Simpson episodes. "Clogging our courts since 1976" alone is worth the price of admission, thanks for sharing!

Here is a pop quiz: In what book on the Simpsons am I am quoted?

100 points (worth absolutely nothing) for the first correct answer. You can even google for the answer, but I doubt if you will find anything.

Ghs

"Some atheists think The Simpsons is so proreligion that it's more

like a Sunday school lesson than a sitcom. In a 1995 atheists Internet

discussion group, one member wrote, "The central message

of the show, I've noticed, is that only the good people are religious

and that those who are not are immoral. Some episodes really

hammer the point home. And the true religious fanatics in the

show are portrayed as the most moral, ethical people around. I

stopped watching in disgust a long time ago." Like the Christians,

even the atheists are split on the series. "It's a great show," said

George H. Smith, author of Why Atheism? and Atheism: The Case

against God. "I think there's a good balance" on religion, he said.

"It's a remarkably well-done show."

"The gospel according to the Simpsons: bigger and possibly even better ..." - By Mark I. Pinsky" - p.217

Do I get another 100 points for sharing the convoluted means by which one would google such a result and then copy text from a site that has copy and paste disabled?

Now googling George's take on "Family Guy"....damn, nothing.

Tim Hopkins

Edited July 3, 2011 by Tim Hopkins

[George H. Smith]

just wonderful, I have not seen many Simpson episodes. "Clogging our courts since 1976" alone is worth the price of admission, thanks for sharing!

Here is a pop quiz: In what book on the Simpsons am I am quoted?

100 points (worth absolutely nothing) for the first correct answer. You can even google for the answer, but I doubt if you will find anything.

Ghs

"Some atheists think The Simpsons is so proreligion that it's more

like a Sunday school lesson than a sitcom. In a 1995 atheists Internet

discussion group, one member wrote, "The central message

of the show, I've noticed, is that only the good people are religious

and that those who are not are immoral. Some episodes really

hammer the point home. And the true religious fanatics in the

show are portrayed as the most moral, ethical people around. I

stopped watching in disgust a long time ago." Like the Christians,

even the atheists are split on the series. "It's a great show," said

George H. Smith, author of Why Atheism? and Atheism: The Case

against God. "I think there's a good balance" on religion, he said.

"It's a remarkably well-done show."

"The gospel according to the Simpsons: bigger and possibly even better ..." - By Mark I. Pinsky" - p.217

Do I get another 100 points for sharing the convoluted means by which one would google such a result and then copying text from a site that has copy and paste disabled?

Now googling George's take on "Family Guy"....damn, nothing.

Tim Hopkins

Yes, I would like to know how you copied and pasted from the Amazon site. I tried, in anticipation of no one getting the right answer, but I ended up typing the passage out by hand.

And how did you Google this? I tried and came up with zilch.

I would rate Family Guy fairly high, but not nearly as high as South Park. The latter has had its share of iffy and mediocre shows, but at its best it overshadows everything else, including The Simpsons.

Ghs

Addendum: It is a little known fact that Wendy co-wrote the remarks I made to Mark Pinsky, author of The Gospel According to the Simpsons, when he called me on the phone years ago for an interview about religion and The Simpsons.

[George H. Smith]

just wonderful, I have not seen many Simpson episodes. "Clogging our courts since 1976" alone is worth the price of admission, thanks for sharing!

Here is a pop quiz: In what book on the Simpsons am I am quoted?

100 points (worth absolutely nothing) for the first correct answer. You can even google for the answer, but I doubt if you will find anything.

Ghs

"Some atheists think The Simpsons is so proreligion that it's more

like a Sunday school lesson than a sitcom. In a 1995 atheists Internet

discussion group, one member wrote, "The central message

of the show, I've noticed, is that only the good people are religious

and that those who are not are immoral. Some episodes really

hammer the point home. And the true religious fanatics in the

show are portrayed as the most moral, ethical people around. I

stopped watching in disgust a long time ago." Like the Christians,

even the atheists are split on the series. "It's a great show," said

George H. Smith, author of Why Atheism? and Atheism: The Case

against God. "I think there's a good balance" on religion, he said.

"It's a remarkably well-done show."

"The gospel according to the Simpsons: bigger and possibly even better ..." - By Mark I. Pinsky" - p.217

Do I get another 100 points for sharing the convoluted means by which one would google such a result and then copying text from a site that has copy and paste disabled?

Now googling George's take on "Family Guy"....damn, nothing.

Tim Hopkins

Yes, I would like to know how you copied and pasted from the Amazon site. I tried, in anticipation of no one getting the right answer, but I ended up typing the passage out by hand.

And how did you Google this? I tried and came up with zilch.

I would rate Family Guy fairly high, but not nearly as high as South Park. The latter has had its share of iffy and mediocre shows, but at its best it overshadows everything else, including The Simpsons.

Ghs

Addendum: It is a little known fact that Wendy co-wrote the remarks I made to Mark Pinsky, author of The Gospel According to the Simpsons, when he called me on the phone years ago for an interview about religion and The Simpsons.

Tim,

Ah, I know how you did it. You did a search on the Google Books site.

Ghs

[Bosco]

I googled the exact text string (including quotation marks):

"george h smith" simpsons

It's the first hit on page 2.

Okay, it wasn't so convoluted. But the copying of text was (I have to do it all the time at work, so it's fairly routine to me),

1. alt-print screen to capture the page.

2. Paste into Paint

3. Save as a pdf file.

4. Open saved file using adobe PDF reader.

5. Click "tools" in upper right hand corner

6. Expand "recognize text ' - Select "in this file"

7. When finished, select and copy desired text.

8. Paste to Word, correct a few OCR (Optical character recognition) errors.

9. Deliberate on whether to just buy the book next time instead.

Tim Hopkins

[George H. Smith]

I googled the exact text string (including quotation marks):

"george h smith" simpsons

It's the first hit on page 2.

Okay, it wasn't so convoluted. But the copying of text was (I have to do it all the time at work, so it's fairly routine to me),

1. alt-print screen to capture the page.

2. Paste into Paint

3. Save as a pdf file.

4. Open saved file using adobe PDF reader.

5. Click "tools" in upper right hand corner

6. Expand "recognize text ' - Select "in this file"

7. When finished, select and copy desired text.

8. Paste to Word, correct a few OCR (Optical character recognition) errors.

9. Deliberate on whether to just buy the book next time instead.

Tim Hopkins

That sounds like a lot of work. The snippet with only my remarks can be copied here:

http://www.google.com/search?q=george+h.+smith+simpsons+religion&tbm=bks&tbo=1

Ghs

[Selene]

I googled the exact text string (including quotation marks):

"george h smith" simpsons

It's the first hit on page 2.

Okay, it wasn't so convoluted. But the copying of text was (I have to do it all the time at work, so it's fairly routine to me),

1. alt-print screen to capture the page.

2. Paste into Paint

3. Save as a pdf file.

4. Open saved file using adobe PDF reader.

5. Click "tools" in upper right hand corner

6. Expand "recognize text ' - Select "in this file"

7. When finished, select and copy desired text.

8. Paste to Word, correct a few OCR (Optical character recognition) errors.

9. Deliberate on whether to just buy the book next time instead.

Tim Hopkins

Tim:

Excellent! Great solve. I will be using it frequently.

I still have trouble with negotiating Paint, but I am getting more proficient.

Adam

I love creative solutions

[Bosco]

I googled the exact text string (including quotation marks):

"george h smith" simpsons

It's the first hit on page 2.

Okay, it wasn't so convoluted. But the copying of text was (I have to do it all the time at work, so it's fairly routine to me),

1. alt-print screen to capture the page.

2. Paste into Paint

3. Save as a pdf file.

4. Open saved file using adobe PDF reader.

5. Click "tools" in upper right hand corner

6. Expand "recognize text ' - Select "in this file"

7. When finished, select and copy desired text.

8. Paste to Word, correct a few OCR (Optical character recognition) errors.

9. Deliberate on whether to just buy the book next time instead.

Tim Hopkins

That sounds like a lot of work. The snippet with only my remarks can be copied here:

http://www.google.co...n&tbm=bks&tbo=1

Ghs

Yes, I noticed that after the fact. Now you know how proficient I am in my job (what attention to detail!)

Tim

[George H. Smith]

That sounds like a lot of work. The snippet with only my remarks can be copied here:

http://www.google.co...n&tbm=bks&tbo=1

Ghs

Yes, I noticed that after the fact. Now you know how proficient I am in my job (what attention to detail!)

Tim

Yeah, but my method only works with very short passages, or I think it does. You could not get the entire paragraph without using your method.

Ghs

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

First, let's not kill allthe lawyers. Our OL friend and valued lodge Brother PDS is one of them.

Carol,

PDS is cool.

Here's proof. If you hadn't told me this sad news about him, I would have never guessed.

I have a real beef with lawyers concerning justice. The following is a true story of a run-in I had with one in São Paulo.

As context, I was as guilty as all hell.

(This was during my bad drug days.)

The lawyer called me up and, after verifying who I was, started yelling at me on the phone. I suppose he was right to yell since I had told him I would come by and discuss the monkey-business I was involved in where his client and I had a dispute, but I blew him off. Right or wrong, though, I don't like folks yelling at me. So I simply let him go on for a bit, than I said, calmly, "If you want to talk to me, I speak in this tone of voice. I am going to hang up now."

And I hung up.

He immediately called back and his tone of voice had changed for the better. I ended up going down to meet him.

Although I was guilty, his client wasn't what you could call a saint. So I felt somewhat justified for taking some... er... liberties with my interpretation of the events. Anyway, I listened to the lawyer until he said something about me have trouble with justice. I said, "Actually, you lawyers have trouble with the idea of justice."

He looked at me with a blank uncomprehending stare. "Do you understand what I'm saying?" he asked.

"Sure," I said. "But you don't understand what I'm saying. When did you forget what justice means? Law school?"

"Justice is the law," he said.

I cracked up. And the more I tried to be serious, the harder I laughed. Soon tears of laughter were streaming down my face as I was pointing at him and guffawing.

He got really uncomfortable for the longest time, then pissed. He tried to say something and his face was red, but I was beyond listening. I just got up and slowly walked out, laughing my ass off.

A couple of weeks later I was doing some even funkier monkey-shines down in the combat zone and got my arm busted for my efforts. I was lucky, too. I shouldn't even be here right now. Nobody actually broke it. I did, I stumbled over my own two feet and fell on my elbow while while trying to get away from a guy with a machete who was hell bent on cutting me in half. (He didn't, of course, but that's another story.)

The lawyer called after I got home from being patched up and asked, in a civil tone of voice, why I had missed the appointment I had scheduled again with him. I said I had been in the hospital with a fractured radius bone. He asked what had happened and I mentioned that I had been where I shouldn't have been and so on. Suddenly I heard in the background his wife yell out, "They broke his arm?!! They broke his arm?!! Get off that damn phone!"

He hung up in my face and, basically, that was that. I never heard from him again, nor from his client.

There's a lesson in this story somewhere, but damned if I know what it is.

Maybe this one. If you want courage or justice, don't bother calling a lawyer. These are words to them, not concepts taken from reality. They play law games. They don't actually live life.

Michael

[Bosco]

A little trick, is to click on "cache" below the main search result. This will display the text of the site in a format that can be copied. Some sites allow their content to be cached, some don't. Google books don't, for obvious reasons.

That sounds like a lot of work. The snippet with only my remarks can be copied here:

http://www.google.co...n&tbm=bks&tbo=1

Ghs

Yes, I noticed that after the fact. Now you know how proficient I am in my job (what attention to detail!)

Tim

Yeah, but my method only works with very short passages, or I think it does. You could not get the entire paragraph without using your method.

Ghs

Edited July 3, 2011 by Tim Hopkins

[caroljane]

. If you want courage or justice, don't bother calling a lawyer. These are words to them, not concepts taken from reality. They play law games. They don't actually live life.

Michael

Michael !with great respect for your experiences and perspectives, this is the biggest context I have ever known you to drop, and the broadest unwarranted assumption I have ever known you to make.

I do appreciate that you are talking about Brazilian and American lawyers, working within their respective "justice systems."

I am not an especial lawyer fan, but my experiences and contra examples are from stories that are not really mine to tell, though being the blabbermouth that I am, probably I will eventually tell them. I'll just say from my Canadian perspective, if you want justice and courage, do not, repeat do not, call the police. Do not assume that because you are innocent, you will not go to jail. Lawyer up, sooner rather than later.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Lawyer up, sooner rather than later.

Carol,

Whoever said I would not do that?

But in that case, I don't want either courage or justice. I just want to get off.

Lawyers are perfect for that (when they're competent, which is another can of worms).

Put it this way. Some humans are born without legs, others are born with both sexes, some even have two heads. These accidents of birth can also happen mentally. I believe whenever there is a certain kind of these unfortunate victims of mental birth accidents, as they grow up from infancy, they find themselves inexplicably attracted to activities of moral vagueness and serving authority. Those with weaker egos become groupies or cult members. Those with stronger egos want a piece of the pie--a big honking piece, but cannot deny their nature, so they become lawyers.

btw - I'm ambivalent about cops. Back in the day, some of the best dope I ever bought came from cops. I mean that literally--me putting money into a cop's hand and he giving me my score with his other. But they can get ornery if you don't watch out.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

My late step-mother was what is now known as an immigration judge. Her logical context was the law itself. If something was logical existential to that and contradicted that she'd revert to that without exception.

--Brant

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Just in case I left a bad impression, today I'm a pussycat.

Been one for a few years now and it's all good.

Peace and love, brothers and sisters. Peace and love.

Well... except on forums...

But in real life, I simply got tired of being sewn back together. Also, physical therapy really, really sucks.

Michael

[Rich Engle]

George's level of scholarly statistical density/accumulation first escaped him, but now saves him, because that is what that shit does. You can have 4000 books but you better know where the good passages are. This is very good work, George, at least in my opinion--in that your work proved itself. Proved itself by pre-existence alone.

The WordStar thing was cutting it a bit close. Please tell me it wasn't on a soft floppy. Did you hold your magnet on it and scramble the words? Did you? Hmmm? May I see your papers, please?

In the meantime, popcorn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UCQShAm5vo&playnext=1&list=PL86DFEF4CD9652876

Going to trial with a lawyer who considers your whole life-style a Crime in Progress is not a happy prospect.

Hunter S. Thompson

rde

F**k that Indiana Mouthpiece-Thing Known as J****

PS: I will write the sig off to typos, were a bitch to ask me.

PPS: George, will you sign a book for me if I promise to give you minor

Daemon and Familiar Action, in advance? I am offering you advance

services. If need be I will even wear a bad 3-piece suit and vomit

single-malt scotch on you while channeling Clarence Darrow.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Rich Engle