The Zen Love Nest


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First thing I should say is that there are two Kats. There is Michael's Kat, and there is mine. An odd and cheerful coincidence, I suppose.

So, I will try when referring to say something like "my Kat" when referring to my one, vs. the other.

Kat (hint: not mine) has always made efforts in the area of romance writing. On the old SOLO (now Rebirth of Reason) she was that (I always found it odd that people didn't pile on to it like I thought; certainly no slight on her, she for sure made the opportunity). And now, here, Kat has done a number of things.

There is a natural thrum of romance kicking around this place, and that, er, "validates" OL past other spots for me. It shows the human side. It shows the frank, open way of talk that is one thing true adult romantic love delivers.

After suggestion/discussion with MSK, it was decided to move forward, and have me do a little weekly thing; a column, of sorts.

Now, in this area, one has to proceed carefully, yet still keep it hot. Romance has a sexual component to it (duh), and that component is, to my mind, maybe the most powerful thing on the planet. And with that goes propriety, taboos, and such.

So we must be careful in our circumspection of the topic, yet not so much so that it becomes dry. I hate when it gets dry; that's where you need to have a good supply of oil. I like oil, because if you are not worried about procreation, you can use it. :cool:

I think that it is easier to talk about the higher values of adult romance than the nuts and bolts of it. We can make high statements, our "axioms," our general philosophy about the matter-at-hand. And we should always do that, because it is the higher ground.

On the other hand, talking about the groundfighting is pretty fun too...

If I write something weekly, I have to have talk topics. I will just use random ones today, to get things started.

1. My Kat and I have determined that role/gameplay in the ZLN (Zen Love Nest) is great, but only on a limited basis. More and more, we prefer au naturale. But it doesn't stop anyone... Perhaps all about mood/timing. I think after work I'll go shopping and suprise her with something simple.. a nice pair of thigh-highs. So, it has to be spontaneous; not over-engineered. As soon as it gets into theater range, well... you either go over the top, or not.

2. The elegance of an outing. Manners, manners, manners! To stick to the protocols. Meaning, how one conducts oneself in public, and with one's companion. I open doors for her, always. I always take care of her coat; esp. putting it on her when we leave.

3. To plan wonderful, private times together, but, if things change, to adapt into something else, and still do more than "make the most of it."

4. To enjoy the simple rituals that are always available between a couple. To be so relaxed, balanced, that the two can even burn up time just looking at each other at the same time.

5. To be so in love that one is never alone.

6. To be so in love that one is always out engineering little suprises for the other, and enjoying it, probably, even more than the other will.

7. To look at the elegant moments when one is making preparation (grooming, dressing, preparing the house) for the arrival of one's love.

There, that's enough for a start.

rde

Out trying to get a good deal on thigh highs for Sunday.

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There is a natural thrum of romance kicking around this place, and that, er, "validates" OL past other spots for me. It shows the human side. It shows the frank, open way of talk that is one thing true adult romantic love delivers.

Now, in this area, one has to proceed carefully, yet still keep it hot. Romance has a sexual component to it (duh), and that component is, to my mind, maybe the most powerful thing on the planet. And with that goes propriety, taboos, and such.

So we must be careful in our circumspection of the topic, yet not so much so that it becomes dry. I hate when it gets dry; that's where you need to have a good supply of oil. I like oil, because if you are not worried about procreation, you can use it. :cool:

Rich,

hehehehehehehe :devil: Hey, I like this idea about talking romance and love and you know I will be a frequent visitor to this thread. But do want to say one thing now in response to the above quote, is there anyway Mike or Kat can put up a warning before entering the thread as to the issues being discussed on this thread. I am sure some aspects obviously will be a bit sensitive, not really explicit, but the more taboo subjects being discussed. At any rate, I think this is a wonderful idea. Rich you are perfect for the job and look forward to reading and adding my 2 cents !!

Angie

Edited by CNA
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Victor expertly reforms/rephrases a tight-assed Victorian catchphrase:

Here's my two cents on the subject: Women should be obscene and not heard!

Heh...

I don't really care too much if they make noise. As long as I never hear "hurry up!" That's always a bummer...

Odd coincidence along that line, a first for me, being only two years in the property management business:

Got a call from a tenant complaining that the couple above her suite were "doing it" too loud, starting at around 2am.

A little after the fact, don't you think? She actually wanted me to call them. Rightio. Jealousy is such an awful thing...

I do have a little sympathy for the problem-- I live in a large, up/down duplex. My ZLN, while separated by a large room from my roomates, is directly over the downstairs bedroom. That one is inhabited by my friend of 36 years, a hermit-like creature who really doesn't do well with the ladies. I guess discretion is the better part of valor; he hasn't said a word to me since I set up shop. On the other hand, he's a little eccentric and more than once I've been distracted in the wee hours by him having conversations with his television set. My Kat hadn't experienced that...she asked me why he was on the phone so late. "No honey, he's talking to the TV...he says it talks back."

rde

Researching white-noise-based sound suppression systems.

Edited by Rich Engle
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I've been thinking about Angie's question to MSK and Kat about some kind of disclaimer...

It's such a wide and gray line is the problem... Maybe if we know a post is moving slightly out of the Neutral Zone it could be marked in some way...

But the point is, and this is important, erotica is OK, raunch is not.

And no, I'm not exactly sure of the precise difference, but 9 for 10 I think I can tell.

For instance, I think it would be perfectly fine for me to mention that there is a beautiful book (Amazon has it at a good price, under 28 bucks US) called "The Kama Sutra Illuminated," but it would not be OK to tell everyone where the absolute very best free porn sites are.

See? Simple enough.

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I've been thinking about Angie's question to MSK and Kat about some kind of disclaimer...

It's such a wide and gray line is the problem... Maybe if we know a post is moving slightly out of the Neutral Zone it could be marked in some way...

But the point is, and this is important, erotica is OK, raunch is not.

And no, I'm not exactly sure of the precise difference, but 9 for 10 I think I can tell.

For instance, I think it would be perfectly fine for me to mention that there is a beautiful book (Amazon has it at a good price, under 28 bucks US) called "The Kama Sutra Illuminated," but it would not be OK to tell everyone where the absolute very best free porn sites are.

See? Simple enough.

Hi Rich,

I totally see where you are coming from. My thing is the legal ramifications of it. There are kids on the forum. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sex and enjoying it immensely, experimentation, etc., as I know most of us are all for it !!! I know I am. But I agree that there are differences between raunch and erotica. But what one person sees as being explicit and offensive may not be explicit and offensive to another. I am sure the more so called taboo practices may be brought up and nothing wrong with that. It's just the fact that young kids are also on this forum. Also it has already been well documented by some on this forum in the way of being against showing love and affection on this forum as well as the portrayal of the nudity shown in one of Victor's caricatures. On top of it, a cartoon drawing of nudity. Some took major offense to the nudity in the caricature as well as my public displays of saying I love you, Victor and a few heart emoticons being thrown in. My mushy posts got much shit which I though was completely ridiculous and spoke volumes as to the people that were telling me that it was wrong and shouldn't be done on a public forum.

Personally I look forward to these discussions as I've done much sex education in all aspects of it and can probably offer much in the way of my 2 cents. :) I'm sure Victor can attest to this. You and I have talked about it very very briefly, educational wise and both of us throwing aspects out there, and have offered our 2 cents worth there but not in depth. It's just my concern of kids being present on this forum, some fairly young as well as what is offensive and explicit to one may NOT be offensive and explicit to another.

Angie

Edited by CNA
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LMAO, I can't wait to hear this :blink: :twitch: hmmm....:logik: Inside joke, Rich.

Edit: Rich, you know this wasn't directed at you. I was just being a smart ass. Some convo about when couples disagree and conflict resolution would be interesting to discuss as disagreements come with the territory.

Edited by CNA
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When a couple disagrees, the man is always right! Objectivist love is all about man-worship. :D

Kat

Damn, Kat, that seriously hurts. :pinch:

Victor, honey, it looks like you are always right so I guess that resolves our little spat lastnight.

post-91-1164572977.gif Victor-worship, Victor-worship

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Now you see, Kat is a very smart woman. I would listen to her. She knows what she's talking about. Honey, it's okay if we spat once in a while, so long as you know that I'm always right at the end of the day. B)

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Kat,

For those of us who think Objectivism is an open system or a still evolving philosophy of life, it is fair to question whether the man is always right. In my near 34 years of marriage, my wife has thought she was right about 90% of the time when we disagreed, after we compared notes. I am more likely right about 60% of the time.

Some of the difference has to do with us as unique individuals and some with the nature of the kind of things that most often come up for discussion. I usually shrug off the disagreement faster than Anna does as well. My list of things it is not worth being upset about is longer, but that also sometimes contributes to the appearance of irritations, since some actions or thoughts do not get as much forethought from me as they should in her mind. In the end, she appears to get over these little irritants, but it is good to limit their numbers. That would be harder to do if I really did assume that I was always right.

It helps to come from a large family as I did. When you are one of six kids, it is harder to grow up thinking you are always right and that even when you are, there are many things which are not so important that they require a fight. Judging what is important and what is not and when to fight for something and when to put it aside requires a constant attention to context. The most important part of the context is why do you love the one you disagree with. Remember that and the value being fought over can be placed properly on a hierarchy of values. In most disagreements with a loved one, many, many values are at stake, but maybe only one relatively unimportant one is the cause of the disagreement.

Charles

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Victor wants to know if I have any special Kung Fu as far as getting out of the doghouse:

Do you have any input or views on the subject of when couples fight and conflict resolution?

Ugh... The mere thought of being "there" sickens me. My last marriage involved an endless string of being "there." And you'd think that two educated, reasonably sensitive, caring people could've made a better job of it. That one was a relationship of extremes, there was seldom any middle ground.

Deep breath...

Off the cuff: I have vastly different views on this now, being with who I am, than I did only a year ago.

I do honestly think that almost all the time, one person is actually "right" and the other wrong. How that is dispensed with, of course, becomes the challenge. I am a firm believer in the "when it's over, it's over" approach. Some people seem to grandfather things, apply a very long statute of limitations. This irritates me to no end; having something that was supposedly resolved resurface (usually coinciding with some new conflict). Learning how to honestly, totally let something go. I have no enmity toward my ex, but as example, I will say that she definitely had that problem; like she couldn't help herself. At any given moment, she could exhume some ancient issue and put it to me, again. I'm sure I did it a few times myself.

So that's the first thing-- The No Skeletons in the Closet covenant.

And of course, making it not personal. Henry Ford said "Don't fix the blame, fix the problem."

Sometimes, the "match" is just not good enough to really support this kind of thing. I really flip-flopped on this. I always thought a good relationship shouldn't require a lot of "work." Then, I got talked out of that. I bought into the idea of a relationship coming out of the initial "honeymoon" phase, and zowie, now it becomes time to buckle down and dig into it. Grim. Noble. Well, I don't think like that anymore. Not quite.

In my current relationship (by far and above the finest one I have had in my whole life) there was exactly one blowup, and it was a doozy. Details unimportant, other than to say that I know for a fact that is was absolutely, positively my fault. Oh, I was "right," in a way, as far as what I was bringing to the table. But, oh, my, did I have the rage going on. I treated her awfully. I had primal monkey rage going on, I was so damn sad and angry and frustrated. Fight or flight? Well, 9 for 10 I go into fight mode. I still can't believe the way I was with her. Oh, I was "right" alright. And I showed her a side of me that, well... I could have very easily lost her. I think I almost did. But, I can tell you this (and she knows it): I will never, ever, ever do anything close to that again. Being "right" is great, but it doesn't give you carte blanche to beat someone over the head with the truth. Sometimes, the truth doesn't set you free. Sometimes, there is a better time, place, and way to deal with a truth. And for sure, if you love someone so dearly, you will never, ever want to hurt them over a "right or wrong" issue. I don't think so, anyhow...

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Hi Rich,

I don't have much time to go into depth right now as there are other things I want to say and want to think about it a bit more. But I do want to say something in regards to someone who can't let things go. I agree that there are many people out there that can't let go of the past and it is brought up over and over again. But I want to offer a different perspective and what I noticed in my previous relationship. At times when an argument would arise, John would sometimes say, why are you bringing this up again; that's the past. I would respond to him, John, there is something you aren't realizing, the problems of the past are STILL problems in the present. Although we would talk or argue about something, actions of the other person, etc., we would resolve the problem then but was only resolved temporarily and then that old problem that provoked the argument in the first place eventually resurfaces again. And ultimately it is argued about once again. Then you get the response, Why are you bringing this up again; that's the past. Oy, maybe you should take a step back and remember what we argued about then and what we are arguing about now. The problems of the past are STILL problems in the present. Ah, it is that vacuous state of over and over and over again and not fixing the problem to begin with. John was notorious for this. But the problems that were put to rest then and were resolved then weren't brought up again.

Angie

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  • 1 year later...

Valentine's Day will be here before you know it, gentlemen.

One of my favorite things to do is stop in any drugstore that day, preferably around rush hour. You will see droves of men prowling the card aisles, with slightly hunted/anxious looks on their faces. Whoops!

Candy and flowers and a card are hard to beat, but trust me, she will know if you do that and haven't done at least a little prep work. Try to make the stuff look like it didn't just fall off the back of a truck. You know, like peeling off UPC labels and such. A good idea, particularly if you are getting a single rose or small bouquet, is to use a REAL FLORIST and have them re-wrap it in fresh paper, and add a little baby's breath or something. It's that tiny bit of extra that might pull you through this difficult time. Certainly, take enough time to advance research a nice love quote, because under time restraints, you stand a good chance of experiencing writer's block. And, for chrissake, use a nice pen. If you have rotten handwriting, get a calligraphy marker (cheap, available at that same drugstore you will be standing in). If you are feeling saucy, do what girls have done for years--use a paint pen, and throw some glitter stars or something inside the card. You might consider adding a small sampler of bath products in there too, it's a proven winner.

Wrapping. Out, usually, no time. Most men are less than origami-friendly (although I happen to be, so sometimes I do a flower or bird model--cost: pennies). The Gods have provided us with swanky gift bags. Try to be civilized and use tissue paper inside, don't just dump the stuff in there.

Online buying examples for varying levels of adventurousness.

First, from JT's Stockroom ( www.stockroom.com , proceed with caution if you enter the main site, or you might get a little embarrassed). This is a 3 piece set of pretty, affordable jewelry: a choker, a waist chain, and an anklet, all with "slave bells." You'll always be able to find her! Recommended accompanying attire: Nothing!

http://www.stockroom.com/Choker-Necklace-w...ells-P1705.aspx

http://www.stockroom.com/Dancers-Waist-Cha...ells-P1703.aspx

http://www.stockroom.com/Metal-Anklet-w-Sl...ells-P1706.aspx

There are quite a few other fetching items on that site, but I'm trying to keep at least a little above-board...

Of course, on the more extreme side, there's this (you're not buying it for her or yourself, you're buying it for both of you!) Highly recommended, sold on many sites:

http://www.edenfantasys.com/LOVER-S-THONG-...toys-dvds-16954

Kama Sutra makes a great selection of oils and powders, a little pricey, best bought online, just Google for it.

On the more conservative side, I've had great success with the "Burt's Bees" line of skin products, they make nice gift sets in various price ranges: www.burtsbees.com

There. Now maybe you guys can proceed with a bit more direction and confidence...

rde

Edited by Rich Engle
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Valentine's Day will be here before you know it, gentlemen.

One of my favorite things to do is stop in any drugstore that day, preferably around rush hour. You will see droves of men prowling the card aisles, with slightly hunted/anxious looks on their faces. Whoops!

Candy and flowers and a card are hard to beat, but trust me, she will know if you do that and haven't done at least a little prep work. Try to make the stuff look like it didn't just fall off the back of a truck. You know, like peeling off UPC labels and such. A good idea, particularly if you are getting a single rose or small bouquet, is to use a REAL FLORIST and have them re-wrap it in fresh paper, and add a little baby's breath or something. It's that tiny bit of extra that might pull you through this difficult time. Certainly, take enough time to advance research a nice love quote, because under time restraints, you stand a good chance of experiencing writer's block. And, for chrissake, use a nice pen. If you have rotten handwriting, get a calligraphy marker (cheap, available at that same drugstore you will be standing in). If you are feeling saucy, do what girls have done for years--use a paint pen, and throw some glitter stars or something inside the card. You might consider adding a small sampler of bath products in there too, it's a proven winner.

Wrapping. Out, usually, no time. Most men are less than origami-friendly (although I happen to be, so sometimes I do a flower or bird model--cost: pennies). The Gods have provided us with swanky gift bags. Try to be civilized and use tissue paper inside, don't just dump the stuff in there.

Online buying examples for varying levels of adventurousness.

First, from JT's Stockroom ( www.stockroom.com , proceed with caution if you enter the main site, or you might get a little embarrassed). This is a 3 piece set of pretty, affordable jewelry: a choker, a waist chain, and an anklet, all with "slave bells." You'll always be able to find her! Recommended accompanying attire: Nothing!

http://www.stockroom.com/Choker-Necklace-w...ells-P1705.aspx

http://www.stockroom.com/Dancers-Waist-Cha...ells-P1703.aspx

http://www.stockroom.com/Metal-Anklet-w-Sl...ells-P1706.aspx

There are quite a few other fetching items on that site, but I'm trying to keep at least a little above-board...

Of course, on the more extreme side, there's this (you're not buying it for her or yourself, you're buying it for both of you!) Highly recommended, sold on many sites:

http://www.edenfantasys.com/LOVER-S-THONG-...toys-dvds-16954

Kama Sutra makes a great selection of oils and powders, a little pricey, best bought online, just Google for it.

On the more conservative side, I've had great success with the "Burt's Bees" line of skin products, they make nice gift sets in various price ranges: www.burtsbees.com

There. Now maybe you guys can proceed with a bit more direction and confidence...

rde

ROFLMAO...this is the funniest damn thing I've read in a long long time. Have a bit of time tonight to browse and have actually read quite a bit tonight but only responding to threads I know I can whip out in no time. LOL Rich, you're guilty as charged and honestly some pretty sound advice for the guys on the forum that have found themselves with their heads up their butts when it comes to procrastination. Thanks for the laughs !!

Oh, yeah, I can't forget, you and those damn slave bells still, oh, man. Laughing even harder now. Did you buy them out or maybe you should be a spokes model for them or something?!?! oh, hell, crying now. LOL

Edited by CNA
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I just came up with part of a theme song for the Zen Love Nest <tm>. Feel free to sing along and add more lyrics. It goes to the tune of Winter Wonderland.

Zen Nest Loverland

Slave bells ring

are you listening?

On the walls

Glow paint is glistening.

[... fill in the rest ...]

In the middle we could put a blow doll

and pretend that she is Dr. Ruth

[... fill in the rest ...]

... in a Zen Nest Loverland

Ok everyone, help me out here. This could get pretty funny.

Kat

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Angie wonders if I ever made the slave bell plunge:

"Oh, yeah, I can't forget, you and those damn slave bells still, oh, man. Laughing even harder now. Did you buy them out or maybe you should be a spokes model for them or something?!?! oh, hell, crying now. LOL"

Actually, not yet but it will for sure happen. I happened to catch a sale on some, er..."leather products," instead.

Sometimes when guys buy presents, they're really buying them for themselves... B)

rde

"Wow, in the wrong hands, that thing could definitely leave a mark..."

Edited by Rich Engle
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Angie wonders if I ever made the slave bell plunge:

"Oh, yeah, I can't forget, you and those damn slave bells still, oh, man. Laughing even harder now. Did you buy them out or maybe you should be a spokes model for them or something?!?! oh, hell, crying now. LOL"

Actually, not yet but it will for sure happen. I happened to catch a sale on some, er..."leather products," instead.

Sometimes when guys buy presents, they're really buying them for themselves... B)

rde

"Wow, in the wrong hands, that thing could definitely leave a mark..."

Oh, man, you didn't buy them?!?! First guy mistake. Take notes, Rich. LOL As you had done with me in getting another women's advice on something is sometimes a very wise decision. Your baby girl would have absolutely loved them, could guarantee it !!!! They are very dainty and feminine. Oh, god, you should have because they're actually really cute and she would have adored them as much as I would have adored them probably. But instead you opted for "leather products".....yikes, kinda scared to know what you bought instead of the cute girlie jewelry. But then again red welt marks might be more up yours and her alley. Remember, I know too many stories, bwahahaha !!!!! :o ;) j/k LMAO

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deleted by BG

heheheh, I'm so very curious, Brant, as to what you had to say about the recent postings here, especially the most recent subject that's been talked about. LOL I can only imagine. :)

Also side note here and that I'll be getting to the conclusion soon. Haven't forgotten.

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deleted by BG

heheheh, I'm so very curious, Brant, as to what you had to say about the recent postings here, especially the most recent subject that's been talked about. LOL I can only imagine. :)

Also side note here and that I'll be getting to the conclusion soon. Haven't forgotten.

I'm curious too. You see, I don't remember. :mellow:

--Brant

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