Jon Letendre Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Jon, And you say we don't need to include neuroscience. Heh. That's the only way I think you will see it, if that should ever happen. Incest is not the way this kind of humor works. Ever. That's why your comment isn't humor. It's a taunt, a call to fight. I don't think you will ever get this different grid thing. But it exists. You don't see it, but it exists. Michael I'm sorry, I know many Marines, and you are wrong about how they would respond. My example is mild, you couldn't be wronger. Maybe you met all the polite ones ... I'm thinking, I'm up to six ... and we talk like that when we are together. He can de-escalate, stay on ideas. Watch, it's going to be fine. Peter's got this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said: and we talk like that when we are together. Jon, You accuse each other of incest as banter? That's beyond my experience, both in life (the many vets I've known), and in war/fighting fiction, (which I've read a lot of). And I can't even imagine it in vets from Peter's generation. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Letendre Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Just now, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Jon, You accuse each other of incest as banter? That's beyond my experience, both in life and in war fiction. Michael Of course! Are you kidding me? Lots of things are left out of war fiction. I get called a nasty motherfucker regularly. They mean the good kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Letendre Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 28 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Jon, And you say we don't need to include neuroscience. Heh. That's the only way I think you will see it, if that should ever happen. Incest is not the way this kind of humor works. Ever. (The same with sex with corpses and things like that. This kind of humor never goes there. The animal thing works, though. Probably because no deep personal values are involved and the imagined situation is so ridiculous, nobody takes it seriously.) That's why your comment isn't humor. It's a taunt, a call to fight. I don't think you will ever get this different grid thing. But it exists. You don't see it, but it exists. Michael Why are you imposing what humor is? Remember, "hearing voices in your head" is humor, suffering no intention to imply presence of real mental illness. Therefore, "making sweet love to your sister" likewise is humor, pure humor, with no intention to imply that she liked it at all even if it did really happen, which it probably didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said: I get called a nasty motherfucker regularly. They mean the good kind. Jon, That phrase has become so mainstream, most uses do not even have a person's real mother as a conceptual referent anymore. Notice that the guy who will call you a crazy motherfucker will not ask you if your mother gives you blow jobs or anything like that. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Letendre Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 29 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Jon, That phrase has become so mainstream, most uses do not even have a person's real mother as a conceptual referent anymore. Notice that the guy who will call you a crazy motherfucker will not ask you if your mother gives you blow jobs or anything like that. Michael Right, motherfucker is mainstream. And when it is being used as humor, it doesn't even refer to the target's biological mother. Making slow and sweet love to his sister is similar in that his actual sister has nothing to do with it. I don't even know if he has any sisters, so how could I mean his "actual" sister? And it's not real, actual slow and sweet love because there isn't a specified referent receiving the hypothesized, intense passion. There is only slow, sweet, passionate lovemaking in the abstract, with his sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said: Why are imposing what humor is? Jon, I'm not imposing anything. (That's just a word game you're doing, anyway--using someone's words on them. I, myself, do this all the time.) I'm just identifying according to an informed view. A highly informed view. I study this shit and have for years. Have you ever looked at my story/communication triangle? I've posted it here on OL several times. Here it is again. Just replace story with message and author with communicator and audience with target person and it works just the same. All communications involve six main relationships. (There are more, but this is a tool for checking effective communication techniques, so it focuses on what can be immediately changed.) When you get angry at someone, your relationship between you and your message goes both ways, no ambiguity there. Your relationship between you and your target only goes one way, from you to the target. You are not concerned with understanding your target correctly unless it fits the template between you and your message. As to the relationship between your target and your message, unless you can get the target to feel humiliated by some phrase or other, I don't think this even gets on your radar. (I base this on what I read from you.) Your style of humor works for bashing someone, but for little else. That's not an imposition. That's an identification. What's more, I'm right. 100%. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said: Making slow and sweet love to his sister is similar in that his actual sister has nothing to do with it. I don't even know if he has any sisters, so how could I mean his "actual" sister? And it's not real, actual slow and sweet love because there isn't a specified referent receiving the hypothesized, intense passion. There is only slow, sweet, passionate lovemaking in the abstract. Jon, Here we go with bullshit again. Where did Bugs Bunny go? Time to split a hare... You know you are calling someone out for a fight with that because you know how it lands. Nitpicking does not change that. (Sorry, dude, I did not kill you with a rifle. It was with a pistol and improvised stock. See? When you told me not to shoot the rifle, I didn't... ) Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Letendre Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Jon, I'm not imposing anything. (That's just a word game you're doing, anyway--using someone's words on them. I, myself, do this all the time.) I'm just identifying according to an informed view. A highly informed view. I study this shit and have for years. Have you ever looked at my story/communication triangle? I've posted it here on OL several times. Here it is again. Just replace story with message and author with communicator and audience with target person and it works just the same. All communications involve six main relationships. (There are more, but this is a tool for checking effective communication techniques, so it focuses on what can be immediately changed.) When you get angry at someone, your relationship between you and your message goes both ways, no ambiguity there. Your relationship between you and your target only goes one way, from you to the target. You are not concerned with understanding your target correctly unless it fits the template between you and your message. As to the relationship between your target and your message, unless you can get the target to feel humiliated by some phrase or other, I don't think this even gets on your radar. (I base this on what I read from you.) Your style of humor works for bashing someone, but for little else. That's not an imposition. That's an identification. What's more, I'm right. 100%. Michael My style of humor contained in my do-over is NOT bashing someone. It is good-natured, cuss-free and follows all Peter's rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Letendre Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Jon, Here we go with bullshit again. Where did Bugs Bunny go? Time to split a hare... You know you are calling someone out for a fight with that because you know how it lands. Nitpicking does not change that. (Sorry, dude, I did not kill you with a rifle. It was with a pistol and improvised stock. See? When you told me not to shoot the rifle, I didn't... ) Michael I am not nitpicking and I am not giving you any bullshit. You know and Peter knows how mental illness on a site where intelligence is what counts, lands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 Just now, Jon Letendre said: My style of humor contained in my do-over is NOT bashing someone. It is good-natured, cuss-free and follows all Peter's rules. Jon, This is exactly why I say you don't get it and probably never will. It's not about nitpicking rules or playing one-upmanship. It's about seeing a situation, one you don't see in the same manner Tony doesn't see mechanical drawings in full. It's a kind of blindness. Like I said, Rand had this same kind of blindness. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Letendre Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Now two sad emoticons. In one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Letendre Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Jon, This is exactly why I say you don't get it and probably never will. It's not about nitpicking rules or playing one-upmanship. It's about seeing a situation, one you don't see in the same manner Tony doesn't see mechanical drawings in full. It's a kind of blindness. Like I said, Rand had this same kind of blindness. Michael Probably never will. It's my blindspot. Peter's is he can't leave me alone. I attack him for his blindspot and I get attacked for mine. Did Bugs say it was a cruel, cruel world? He should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said: Now two sad emoticons. In one day. Jon, Here let me help you out. Whatever it is you think you are winning, you won. OK? I concede. I really don't know anything about humor, or the neuroscience of it, or the psychology of it, or any of that. I'm just faking it and you got me. Congratulations. Now you don't have to feel sad. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 7 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said: Peter's is he can't leave me alone. Jon, Just ignore him. He's harmless. And over time, he will simply stop if you don't engage. That's not just him. That's human nature. btw - Saying you have a blindspot is not attacking you. I use the identify correctly to evaluate correctly sequence in my thinking and formulations (at least as much as I can muster). I'm still discussing identification. Attack is not relevant to that phase. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Letendre Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Jon, Whatever it is you think you are winning, you won. OK? I concede. Michael Fantastic! I get the one thing I wanted. You now acknowledge that my 'are you still loving your sister' foray into light humor with Peter is a good-natured way of responding to his light humor allusion to my mental illness. Now it is in Peter's court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Jon Letendre said: Fantastic! I get the one thing I wanted. You now acknowledge that my 'are you still loving your sister' foray into light humor with Peter is a good-natured way of responding to his light humor allusion to my mental illness. Now it is in Peter's court. Jon, Absolutely. I also acknowledge that incest is not only side-slapping funny to most people, it should even be in Bugs Bunny cartoons. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 19 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said: ... allusion to my mental illness... Jon, Serious question. You keep talking about this. And when you emphasized you cannot stop cussing, the name Tourette Syndrome did cross my mind. PTSD, too. I didn't take this seriously, though. But is mental illness close to you in some manner? No need to answer. And, God knows, no preconceptions on my part if so. Not after the addictions I've been through. I asked because I have no clue, so no implication, one way or the other, is intended with my question. But if this is a thing, that changes things a bit. I can easily change my way of posting to make space and not step on it. I can do more in a good way, too. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Letendre Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Just now, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Jon, Absolutely. I also acknowledge that incest is not only side-slapping funny to most people, it should even be in Bugs Bunny cartoons. Michael Well, not as funny as mental illness. I know some families who would disagree with that, though. But it's not like they understand neuroscience, so i'm sure they're just confused about the nature of humor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Jon Letendre said: Well, not as funny as mental illness. Jon, Really? Could have fooled me after I got busted. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Letendre Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Jon, Serious question. You keep talking about this. And when you emphasized you cannot stop cussing, the name Tourette Syndrome did cross my mind. PTSD, too. I didn't take this seriously, though. But is mental illness close to you in some manner? No need to answer. And, God knows, no preconceptions on my part if so. Not after the addictions I've been through. But if this is a thing, that changes things a bit. I can easily change my way of posting to make space and not step on it. I can do more in a good way, too. Michael Thank you. The answer is no. Cannot stop cussing was not sincere. That was prelude to parodying Peter's whining. No, there is no mental illness close to me. But that would change things, as you acknowledge. And Peter doesn't know, but he does this sort of thing to me anyway. "Voices in your head" is not humor, it is a vicious attack. Snap the fuck out of it. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said: "Voices in your head" is not humor, it is a vicious attack. Jon, We disagree on this. But, once again, that's what we're here for. Humans disagree. I'm fine with disagreeing. (Most of the time. ) Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Letendre Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 11 hours ago, Peter said: Do you see dead people? I propose that I respond to my do-over, for Peter. with some recap: Jon: CIA gonna hurt after this. Peter: that's just voices in your head Jon: Did your sister tell you that, while faking an orgasm? Iran: executes CIA agent inside its air force Peter: I won't fuck her anymore Jon: Come on, why do you say that? Peter: She's so stupid. Gets pregnant then denies it's hers. Jon: Ha! Did you see how Iran executed a CIA agent? Won't it be fun to watch who else they execute and we bomb before making peace with them, finally? Peter: [civil, intelligent comment pertaining to the situation in Iran] etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 14 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said: Peter: She's so stupid. Gets pregnant then denies it's hers. Jon, Goddam! Finally a funny comment! (In the way I've been talking about.) Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 19 hours ago, Jon Letendre said: Go back to the looney bin. Wow, you have been on a roll Jon. No prob, Ive been told worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts