merjet

Aristotle's wheel paradox

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1 hour ago, Jon Letendre said:

Meaning, no, you cannot see the things I asked about.

Its not jumbo-jumbo, it's you incapable of getting out of your erroneous mental constructs.

Its not built on a fabrication, but on an abstraction you are not capable of holding.

Your pendulum idea is horrible, not at all a good idea for the problem at hand, further reinforcing the observation that you are still miles from grasping the "paradox."

You comment that I am your "opponent"? What the hell is that? I've been trying to help you understand.

Merlin, if I am a waste of your time, just fuck off. It's simple. Fuck off and stop responding to me.

 

 

Yup. Despite all the help that we've given to Merlin, he still doesn't get it. It appears that he can't even consistently identify what he thinks the "paradox" is. At moments, he identifies all of the elements and their interactions, and yet at other moments, he seems to forget some of them, why they're included, and what it is all meant to add up to. Earlier, he felt terribly insulted at my appraisal of his visual/spatial/mechanical reasoning abilities. Clearly, as it turns out, I was overestimating him at that point. He has demonstrated himself to be less able than I could have imagined a person of general normal intelligence to be.

I think that one thing is pretty revealing. Notice all of the information, examples that we've given, and questions that we've asked which have gone unaddressed by Merlin. We've brought a lot of effort and good will in reaching out and trying to explain and communicate. We've made specific points. And Merlin has either ignored them or shown that he doesn't understand them, and, in some cases, doesn't want to understand them.

But it's not something to get angry about. Sure, Merlin is being a dick, and that's a little irritating, but it's actually funny more than it is upsetting. How deep can he go into Dunning-Kruger stupidity and arrogance? He has already gone lower than I would have thought possible. Can he go even lower yet? Now I hope so! It's very entertaining.

J

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26 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

Here's another "paradox" for Merlin. There is a wheel whose circumference we wish to discover. A guy named Dave suggests measuring it by wrapping a string around it. He holds one end of a string against the wheel with one hand, and then wraps the string around the wheel with the other. He marks the string, removes it from the wheel, and straightens it next to a long ruler. The circumference turns out to be eight feet and five inches.

That length doesn't seem right to Dave's friend, Harold, who insists on measuring the wheel's circumference himself. Harold is missing his left arm, so he can't hold the end of the string against the wheel, but just starts wrapping the string with his one arm. Well, using this method, Harold can't end up back at the beginning of the string, so it turns out that the circumference is infinity!!! How is this paradox possible? How can a wheel's circumference be both 8' 5" and infinity? The same string was used both times. It's unresolvable! 

I've been thinking about this really hard, and with big words. I thought it was absolutely unresolvable, until a little voice inside my head said, "If the gentleman would tape the end of the string to the wheel, then do the wrapping, then...."

Well, I'm not about to entertain a fabrication.

Tape was not required to model the paradox, and so I threw out the "resolution."

Therefore, at least at this point in time, it is unresolved. Do you have any ideas. Big words, please.

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8 hours ago, merjet said:

Grab a roll of duct tape and watch it roll. Do you see the inner circle slip or skid?

Yes. I see it skid in comparison to the imaginary line that the "paradox" asks us to consider as being there. I have that capacity to perceive the skidding.

I've created videos and posted them here which depict the circle and the lines. Did you watch them? Were you not able to see the skidding of the small circle in comparison to the line along which it travels?

Answer these questions instead of evading them.

J

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6 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said:

I've been thinking about this really hard, and with big words. I thought it was absolutely unresolvable, until a little voice inside my head said, "If the gentleman would tape the end of the string to the wheel, then do the wrapping, then...."

Well, I'm not about to entertain a fabrication.

Tape was not required to model the paradox, and so I threw out the "resolution."

Therefore, at least at this point in time, it is unresolved. Do you have any ideas. Big words, please.

No, it's unresolvable. You're right that tape was not included in the original premise. Nor were tacks or glue.

8' 5" = infinity!

J

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28 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

No, it's unresolvable. You're right that tape was not included in the original premise. Nor were tacks or glue.

8' 5" = infinity!

J

There's countably infinite and there's uncountably infinite, but I don't expect you to understand the difference, or that you are asserting a case of the former.

Your imprecise mumbo-jumbo is a waste of my time.

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2 hours ago, Jonathan said:

Despite all the help that we've given to Merlin, he still doesn't get it. It appears that he can't even consistently identify what he thinks the "paradox" is.

Notice all of the information, examples that we've given, and questions that we've asked which have gone unaddressed by Merlin.

Fabricator.  Jonathan has also said there is a paradox and there is no paradox, a blatant contradiction.

Notice all of the information, examples that I've given, and questions that I've asked which have gone unanswered by him and Jon.

Cycloids and rolling vs rotation in place vs translate and identified actual physical forces? Blank out. Ditto for Jon.

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25 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said:

I became intimate with wheels and gears going back to early childhood repairing, reassembling and riding bikes.

Here I am about two months ago on Lookout Mountain, overlooking Golden, Colorado.

IMG_3692_zpsan0cltry.jpg

True bicycles are human powered.  And the mechanics  are much more obvious.  Delving the depth of the derailer and planetary gear is a mind expanding  experience. 

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2 hours ago, merjet said:

Fabricator.  Jonathan has also said there is a paradox and there is no paradox, a blatant contradiction.

False. I've used scare quotes when referring to the alleged "paradox." See, I just did it there again. Do you know what scare quotes are?

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2 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said:

True bicycles are human powered.  And the mechanics  are much more obvious.  Delving the depth of the derailer and planetary gear is a mind expanding  experience. 

Correct, correct and correct.

Here I am this past summer in Moab, Utah on my singlespeed 1985 Diamond Back Ascent.

IMG_3713_zpsjesnblzh.jpg

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4 hours ago, merjet said:

Notice all of the information, examples that I've given, and questions that I've asked which have gone unanswered by him and Jon.

Cycloids and rolling vs rotation in place vs translate and identified actual physical forces? Blank out. Ditto for Jon.

You didn't ask me anything about cycloids. You asked Jon. But I have no problem answering.

This is what you asked Jon:

Quote

"Regarding the video I linked, can you see the cycloid path and the curtate cycloid path the black dots traveled? Did you see that one deviated farther from its horizontal line than did the other? I did. Isn't that amazing for a guy with "deficient visual/spatial/mechanical reasoning"?"

I can see the paths, but you misidentified one as a cycloid and the other as a curtate cycloid. They are actually both curtate. The only true, common cycloid would be one created from a point on the outer rim of the wheel which contacts the table on which it rolls.

Apparently you didn't fully grasp the conditions required to create common cycloids versus curtate ones (and presumably prolate ones) before claiming to "see" them in the video. Oops! Busted again!

Please, keep digging the hole that you're in, though!

There. I answered your questions. Now it's your turn to answer mine. Can you not see the skidding of the small circle in the video in which I visually isolated it?

J

 

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If I had written the pendulum nonsense that Merlin did (he has since taken it down) then that would be my clue (he had the sense to take it down) that I was not tracking at all and needed to shut up, listen, reread everything they have written, from the beginning.

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58 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said:

Correct, correct and correct.

Here I am this past summer in Moab, Utah on my singlespeed 1985 Diamond Back Ascent.

IMG_3713_zpsjesnblzh.jpg

Single Speed. The last one I rode was 70 years ago and it had coaster brakes. I think it was a Schwinn. 

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1 hour ago, Jon Letendre said:

Correct, correct and correct.

Here I am this past summer in Moab, Utah on my singlespeed 1985 Diamond Back Ascent.

IMG_3713_zpsjesnblzh.jpg

Bike gears can't work according to Merlin's little theories, so that picture has to be fake!

J

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7 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said:

Single Speed. The last one I rode was 70 years ago and it had coaster brakes. I think it was a Schwinn. 

Was it red? Red is faster.

This bike has 26" wheels and front sprocket of 36 teeth, rear 22 teeth, which is a rather low gear - it climbs hills, but doesn't go fast.

Your old bike was likely capable of a higher top speed.

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1 hour ago, Jon Letendre said:

Correct, correct and correct.

Here I am this past summer in Moab, Utah on my singlespeed 1985 Diamond Back Ascent.

IMG_3713_zpsjesnblzh.jpg

I've been to Moab.

I know Moab.

That's no--oh, okay, that's Moab.

--Brant

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The Earth rotates at, what, 24,000 mph at the equator.

How come at the true North Pole you seem to be as standing still as anywhere else on the planet if the North Pole doesn't slip or slide?

--Brant

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7 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

I've been to Moab.

I know Moab.

That's no--oh, okay, that's Moab.

--Brant

It's Moab, but perhaps beyond city limit, probably beyond city limit.

North of town. To the state highway on your left, go a few miles, bike trails on the right. This is the parking lot.

This was the morning after Moab got her highest rainfall since, 1943, I think it was.

But the trails were still great, most of the ground just lets water fall right through it.

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9 minutes ago, Jon Letendre said:

Was it red? Red is faster.

This bike has 26" wheels and front sprocket of 36 teeth, rear 22 teeth, which is a rather low gear - it climbs hills, but doesn't go fast.

Your old bike was likely capable of a higher top speed.

If I pushed it (I could push it 70 years ago)  I could go between 15 and 20 mph.  Now I consider it an abiding miracle if I can average 10 mph.  But I can still go 20 miles without stopping.

To climb hills (in those days)  I stood up on the pedals. 

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5 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

The Earth rotates at, what, 24,000 mph at the equator.

How come at the true North Pole you seem to be as standing still as anywhere else on the planet if the North Pole doesn't slip or slide?

--Brant

24, 000 miles a day approximately, 1000 mph.  That is why launch our rockets from Florida.  The get almost a 1000 mph boost for free. 

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Just now, BaalChatzaf said:

24, 000 miles a day approximately, 1000 mph.  That is why launch our rockets from Florida.  The get almost a 1000 mph boost for free. 

LOL--thx for the correction. 

--Brant

and thx for the FL info--the French do (did?) the same

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Just now, Brant Gaede said:

LOL--thx for the correction. 

--Brant

and thx for the FL info--the French do (did?) the same

The French ESA projects launch from French Giana  (Devil's Island).  Same reason,  the free 1000 mph boost. 

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1 minute ago, BaalChatzaf said:

If I pushed it (I could push it 70 years ago)  I could go between 15 and 20 mph.  Now I consider it an abiding miracle if I can average 10 mph.  But I can still go 20 miles without stopping.

The Ascent can't go fast like that. But she will climb up steep terrain, at a fraction of 1 mile per hour.

Its great that you ride still - keep it up!

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