Arkadi

Snowden and Galt

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24 minutes ago, moralist said:

[....]  America is unique in that it was founded, not on one nationality, but rather it was founded on a Judeo Christian moral values. [...]

Can you prove from the Constitution that America was founded on the Bible?

It is not enough to show that some of the Founding Fathers believed the Bible. The question is, how was the Constitution derived from the Bible?

It is not enough that the Constitution includes a single instance of the word 'God' or 'Creator'.

Does the Constitution's statement of the purpose of government come from the Bible?

 

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31 minutes ago, moralist said:

Again, what I said specifically applies to America today because it was founded on the Judeo Christian work ethic.

 "If anyone is not willing to work, neither let him eat."

--Bible

That may be a correct principle but where in the USA Constitution do you see that?

 

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40 minutes ago, jts said:

That may be a correct principle but where in the USA Constitution do you see that?

 

Nowhere.  

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The country was founded in part on freedom of religion.

see, "The Bill of Rights."

--Brant

you can't literalize yourself to a successful if even only implicit deductive argument, especially with questions only

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28 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

The country was founded in part on freedom of religion.

see, "The Bill of Rights."

--Brant

you can't literalize yourself to a successful if even only implicit deductive argument, especially with questions only

1. To be founded in part on freedom of religion does not imply being founded in part on religion. To be free to choose a religion or to reject all religions does not imply being required to live according to a religion.

2. Where in the Bible do you see a statement that people should have freedom of religion?

 

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4 hours ago, jts said:

Can you prove from the Constitution that America was founded on the Bible?

You're confusing the government with the nation.

Greg

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4 hours ago, jts said:

That may be a correct principle but where in the USA Constitution do you see that?

Again, you're mixing up the government with the nation, Jerry.

Here, this might clear up your confusion...

"Our Constitution was made ONLY for a moral and religious people. It is WHOLLY INADEQUATE to the government of any other. "

--John Adams


The Constitution works ONLY for honest responsible people with decent moral values who govern themselves.

IT DOES NOT WORK for the indecent...

...and HAS to be VIOLATED in order to govern immoral secularist libertines who FAIL to govern their own behavior.

 

Greg

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Greg--""If anyone is not willing to work, neither let him eat."-Bible."-- "Man does not live by bread alone". "Blessed are the poor". "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.…" etc., etc.--all by Jesus

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Greg--"I'm talking about today in America... "--Today, in America, Snowden--who, in my view, did what's morally right--would be in jail if not for Vladimir Putin. So, the freedom of a person who does what's morally right depends on the benevolence of one of the worlds' greatest moral wrongdoers. "I have a totally different view on mountain climbing than you do... If people didn't put out the physical effort to hike up mountains they couldn't travel anywhere to live in new territories and civilization couldn't be spread over the world."--Yes, we do disagree on this. Without Aristotle there would be nothing to spread. Monkeys put out physical effort and spread around yet remain monkeys.

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46 minutes ago, Arkadi said:

Greg--""If anyone is not willing to work, neither let him eat."-Bible."-- "Man does not live by bread alone". "Blessed are the poor". "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.…" etc., etc.--all by Jesus

It is easier for a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Take no thought for the morrow. (Don't plan. Can you accomplish anything without planning?)

My father never accomplished anything. I suspect because he took the Bible more seriously than most Christians.

I posted a story about Lester. It seems in spite of many clues, nobody was able or motivated to figure out who Lester was. I figured I left enough clues to make this obvious. I was hard pressed to give more clues without giving away the answer outright. Lester was my father. The main philosophical challenge was to figure out the philosophical premises that governed his life. The secondary, minor challenge was to figure out who Lester was. It seems nobody was equal to either challenge.

I will give you all a clue to the main challenge. I suspect religion, more exactly the Bible. Most Christians don't take the Bible as seriously as my father took it. Perhaps that was why he was poor all his life.

 

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1 hour ago, Arkadi said:

Who said anything about measuring oneself?

 

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JTS--One can possibly call some people "failures" only by applying to them (and, by implication, to all people, including himself) a certain measure or criterion.

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19 minutes ago, Arkadi said:

JTS--One can possibly call some people "failures" only by applying to them (and, by implication, to all people, including himself) a certain measure or criterion.

My father could not support his family. That is failure. I'm not talking about keeping up with the neighbors.

 

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JTS--It's a failure in one particular respect; and it was, perhaps, due to his reading the Bible not attentively enough, as St. Paul advises to not marry.

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13 minutes ago, Arkadi said:

JTS--It's a failure in one particular respect; and it was, perhaps, due to his reading the Bible not attentively enough, as St. Paul advises to not marry.

Being unable to make money is a failed life. Money is one of the necessary ingredients of a good life. The Bible attitude about money be damned.

Another necessary ingredient of a good life is health. People who don't believe health is important find out different when their health breaks.

There probably is a 3rd necessary ingredient.

If the question is asked, which is the most important, my answer is which is the most important leg of a 3 legged stool? The one that is missing.

 

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JTS--"Being unable to make money is a failed life. Money is one of the necessary ingredients of a good life."--This tells it all. No more questions on my part. Thank you.

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7 hours ago, jts said:

Being unable to make money is a failed life. Money is one of the necessary ingredients of a good life. The Bible attitude about money be damned.

Another necessary ingredient of a good life is health. People who don't believe health is important find out different when their health breaks.

There probably is a 3rd necessary ingredient.

If the question is asked, which is the most important, my answer is which is the most important leg of a 3 legged stool? The one that is missing.

 

How much money? Where is the monetary dividing line between success and "a failed life"?

A "necessary ingredient", right, it is so true it's almost a truism.

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48 minutes ago, anthony said:

How much money?

The answer is simple... making more money than you spend.

This is a working definition of solvency. There is a link between solvency and good values. People tend to manage their money in the same ways as they manage their life.

Greg

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36 minutes ago, moralist said:

The answer is simple... making more money than you spend.

This is a working definition of solvency. There is a link between solvency and good values. People tend to manage their money in the same ways as they manage their life.

Greg

My query was if money is the only criterion of success for everybody. What about one who values higher his mental productivity, and can't find a market for his output? "Success" is not easily defined.

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51 minutes ago, anthony said:

My query was if money is the only criterion of success for everybody. What about one who values higher his mental productivity, and can't find a market for his output? "Success" is not easily defined.

The value of a person's mental productivity can be measured by their ability to find a market for their output. One goes hand in hand with the other. Of what good is an intelligent idea without the common sense to implement it? 

This defines the difference between being educated in a University... and becoming enlightened in the real world.

 

Greg

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p.s. I have to admit, that, personally, I find Greg's criterion ("making more money than you spend") ego-pandering. I'm almost 62 and I never borrowed a single cent in my whole life, nor lived off any inheritance. It looks like I'm admitted to Greg's "good people"'s  (a.k.a. American Capitalists) club. :)

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