moralist Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 What would your life be like if it made no difference to you who was President? If you can answer that question for yourself... you will have found the American solution to every political problem. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Rand's obsolete appellation for you would have been "social ballast." Today she'd not be so generous. --Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikee Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Obsolete? https://objectivists.wordpress.com/2012/02/15/100/ I don't think Greg fits that definition. Your attempt to shoehorn him into it reflects poorly on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Greg raises a significant question. He is correct that, for an individual who has created his property as he has, and conducts his business as he does, allows the Presidential winner to have virtually no significant impact. Seems to me he should be congratulated. A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Agree with Mike here, and I do disagree strongly with many of Greg's opinions -- and with his too-easy generalizations/slurs. As a man, as a military veteran, as a businessman, as a diligent worker and tinkerer, as a provider and as a leader in his community, Greg is anything but social ballast of the Randian kind. He at least participates in the social world, and makes his views known. Ballast is as grey and featureless and kind of sloshy as the descriptor suggests. On the other hand, at least in shipping, without ballast you may be doomed to sink in certain wave conditions. And ballast can be drawn in and expelled fairly quickly, depending on the modernity of the vessel. So, which tank is Greg in? Yes, basic disagreements about perception and mind-reading and over-confident assays about other peoples' psychological defects -- these I detect in Greg's performance. I find structural defects in Greg's arguments most times, but that doesn't mean I compound his error of personalizing dissent by mere label, by mere label. It is work to do his arguments justice. It is not work to call him social ballast. I would try to coin a more apt term around 'asseveration,' but my one-liners seem to go on for three pages. I'll leave it to Brant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 2 hours ago, Brant Gaede said: Rand's obsolete appellation for you would have been "social ballast." Today she'd not be so generous. --Brant Quote Ayn Rand said: There are also a great many men who are indifferent to ideas and to anything beyond the concrete-bound range of the immediate moment; such men accept subconsciously whatever is offered by the culture of their time, and swing blindly with any chance current. They are merely social ballast... Brant, I don't accept "whatever is offered by the culture of my time". This is what culture offers: government employment government insurance government loans government healthcare government benefits government disability government entitlements government retirement I simply don't need any of those... and because I operate completely within the American Capitalist private sector on a 100%solvent basis, I'm impervious to debt driven political cycles. No President has the power to alter the quality of my life, because only I have the power to do that. Now I'd love to see other people learn how to grow up and live like decent responsible independent self motivated productive solvent frugal Americans, instead of government benefits check cashing LEECHES... but I have no power to change how others live nor would I ever want it. I only have power to change how I live, so that's what I do. I change my life so as to not need the government. Properly ordering your own life so that government has no power to effect its quality is an American value. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 2 hours ago, william.scherk said: I would try to coin a more apt term around 'asseveration,' but my one-liners seem to go on for three pages. William, your stamina in grinding out walls of screed is an Obama liberal socialist bureaucracy's wet dream. They yearn for people with your skillset to be cogs in their useless machine that produces nothing. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Envy? Jus askin'. --Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 3 hours ago, moralist said: Brant, I don't accept "whatever is offered by the culture of my time". This is what culture offers: government employment government insurance government loans government healthcare government benefits government disability government entitlements government retirement I simply don't need any of those... and because I operate completely within the American Capitalist private sector on a 100%solvent basis, I'm impervious to debt driven political cycles. No President has the power to alter the quality of my life, because only I have the power to do that. Now I'd love to see other people learn how to grow up and live like decent responsible independent self motivated productive solvent frugal Americans, instead of government benefits check cashing LEECHES... but I have no power to change how others live nor would I ever want it. I only have power to change how I live, so that's what I do. I change my life so as to not need the government. Properly ordering your own life so that government has no power to effect its quality is an American value. Greg I suppose that takes care of domestic policies of our government. I was thinking of nuclear warfare. --Brant and who gets to play God for the next few years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 16 minutes ago, moralist said: 3 hours ago, william.scherk said: Agree with Mike here, and I do disagree strongly with many of Greg's opinions -- and with his too-easy generalizations/slurs. As a man, as a military veteran, as a businessman, as a diligent worker and tinkerer, as a provider and as a leader in his community, Greg is anything but social ballast Nothing produces that machine useless their in cogs be to skillset your with people for yearn They .dream wet s'bureaucracy socialist liberal Obama an is screed of walls out grinding in stamina your, William. Ever gracious, in victory and defeat. I was at my biggest cog ratfuck status during my years in the forests up north. I was cog maniac in a machine that replanted vast swathes of logged-out valleys. Before I die, those trees will make market. Value added, of course. Another item present in one ledger but not in the other is such ratfink subject of Total Art Sales. Even as a turnover of ground already spaded, the economic throughput means I can spend those thousands on a septic tank replacement for my sister. And so on, and the tank man buys a bird and the bird is eaten and the bones become fertilizer which is spent on the almond tree which starts the whole thing over again. Throughput. Ask the next guy in the web of economy where his tax money went, 'cause yours went nowhere. Or ask the next guy how to take a compliment. You are not social ballast. May all the Obamas and Demons lay no claim to your world. May all your tax burdens be passed on to others by fractions and may all your almonds be sweet and plump. Pay it forward and be blessed by full rotating cashflow ... be handy with a chainsaw, generalor and good and bad neighbours, just in case. 4 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said: Envy? Jus askin'. --Brant How did Kim the Jung Eel put it in that fun puppet movie? "Inebitubble" Inebitubbly, even. Some people do lead enviable lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Brant Gaede said: Envy? Jus askin'. --Brant An unproductive do-nothing government dependent bureaucrat? Not likely Brant. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Brant Gaede said: I suppose that takes care of domestic policies of our government. I was thinking of nuclear warfare. --Brant and who gets to play God for the next few years Damn right it does... and that approach only works for me and my loved ones. Everyone else is free to sort out their own self imposed slavery for themselves. {shrug...) And anyone can play God as far as I'm concerned. Whatever they do has absolutely nothing to do with me or my life, because they can only be the God of the unproductive parasites who need what the government gives them. Nuclear war shares the same probability as getting crushed by a falling vending machine. War is it's own phenomenon and takes care of itself... ...as will I. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 34 minutes ago, moralist said: Damn right it does... and that approach only works for me and my loved ones. Everyone else is free to sort out their own self imposed slavery for themselves. {shrug...) And anyone can play God as far as I'm concerned. Whatever they do has absolutely nothing to do with me or my life, because they can only be the God of the unproductive parasites who need what the government gives them. Nuclear war shares the same probability as getting crushed by a falling vending machine. War is it's own phenomenon and takes care of itself... ...as will I. Greg What the government gives them... Police service, ambulance, EMT, fire fighting, law courts...... Who needs that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 48 minutes ago, moralist said: 49 minutes ago, moralist said: An unproductive do-nothing government dependent bureaucrat? Not likely Brant. Greg Is he? Was he? You lack enough data so you argue down from your conclusion. It's deduction. It's not enough except perhaps for a generality not for any particular person met only on the Internet. --Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 1 hour ago, BaalChatzaf said: What the government gives them... Police service, ambulance, EMT, fire fighting, law courts...... Who needs that? Bob... I clearly referenced government education, government employment, government insurance, government healthcare, government benefits, government disability, government retirement, government loans. These are the personal measures by which everyone can accurately assess their own self imposed slavery to the government. The government's ONLY power to control you is granted to it by your NEED of it. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Brant Gaede said: Is he? Was he? You lack enough data so you argue down from your conclusion. It's deduction. It's not enough except perhaps for a generality not for any particular person met only on the Internet. --Brant William quacks like a duck... so as far as I'm concerned he is a duck. I've never seen anyone as much in his element speaking bureaucratize as he is. It's his mother tongue. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Bissell Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 The overreach of government has compromised a lot of our freedoms and good choices. Nowadays, it's often the least bad choice that we're stuck with. Specifically, in regard to employment: If it's a job that shouldn't be done by anyone, don't do it. If it's any other kind of job, but it's in a field where the private market jobs are squeezed out by the government version (e.g., schools, city bus service, electric company, fire department), take the best one you can get. Same for services: get the best you can afford - and if you can't afford private, make use of the public services you have been forced to support. Rand wrote about all this in "The Question of Scholarships" 50 years ago. It made sense then, and it makes sense now. And no, she wasn't a parasite or a hypocrite for taking Social Security or Medicare that she was forced to pay into. There are much more important things to worry about than this. Well, for me, anyway. Perhaps some people need to patch up their self-esteem by bashing folks who work for the government or use government services. Present company excepted? REB P.S. - William is not a duck, but a mongoose - so you'd better watch your ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 My personal ideal is to live somewhere not knowing or caring who my Prez or PM is. At which point, you know the govt. is just doing its job and no more, and you're in a largely free society of mostly sensible people. A guy can dream... The trouble, is politics begets more politics; when things reach the stage that a group or groups crave and want to increase their power over other 'groups' - as reaction then, they have to be kept out or neutralized with more political power. And so on. It is well and good disappearing beneath the State radar, Greg ( in fact, rationally self-interested) and it's the measure of a still free-ish country that you may still achieve that. Quite close to what I also try do in this country. This here is such an inept govt that it can't get round to enacting and enforcing the tons of socialist regulations it badly would like to - so far. If you fellows get in Bernie and his proposed Danish 'model' (of statism, not a lovely lady) - plus, American efficiency - even Greg might not stay hidden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 A friend of Orson Wells prior to WWII, seeing war coming, suggested they all move to the South Pacific to avoid it. --Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 11 hours ago, moralist said: William quacks like a duck... so as far as I'm concerned he is a duck. I've never seen anyone as much in his element speaking bureaucratize as he is. It's his mother tongue. Greg But does he walk like a duck? Swim like a duck? --Brant (we're all ducks on OL--except for those not here for the ideas) quack, quack--quack, quack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 On 2/23/2016 at 4:43 AM, anthony said: It is well and good disappearing beneath the State radar, Greg ( in fact, rationally self-interested) and it's the measure of a still free-ish country that you may still achieve that. Quite close to what I also try do in this country. This here is such an inept govt that it can't get round to enacting and enforcing the tons of socialist regulations it badly would like to - so far. If you fellows get in Bernie and his proposed Danish 'model' (of statism, not a lovely lady) - plus, American efficiency - even Greg might not stay hidden. There's no need to disappear, Tony. I'm living my life right out in plain sight. In America, the government can ONLY control the people who NEED it. You have no idea of the powerful protection this moral principle provides. I actually didn't either until I experienced it directly for myself. The Bible refers to righteousness as being the armor that protects us from the world.... ...and it DOES! Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I can see how a Christian can be "righteous." As in the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre. Since they don't do that to each other any longer, we can observe this as a dynamic with various Muslim sects. To be righteous better be the dominant player or you're going to be righteousnessed. --Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 2 hours ago, Brant Gaede said: I can see how a Christian can be "righteous." As in the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre. Since they don't do that to each other any longer, we can observe this as a dynamic with various Muslim sects. To be righteous better be the dominant player or you're going to be righteousnessed. --Brant Pacifism has nothing to with being righteousness, Brant. That's for weak feminized liberals and unfit for decent American men. Everything I say always applies to today in America, and never to the dead past anywhere else... because we are living in AMERICA TODAY. People who live with their head up their p-ass-t are STUPID. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Histories? We don't need to show you no histories! We don't need no stinkin' histories! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 27, 2016 Author Share Posted February 27, 2016 On 2/26/2016 at 0:26 PM, Brant Gaede said: Histories? We don't need to show you no histories! We don't need no stinkin' histories! That's right. This is NOW. America is HERE. NOW is the only place where objective reality IS. It's the only place where anything REAL happens. Everything else is just pinheaded intellectual navel lint. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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