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4 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Trump is calling out, facing off with, and beating the most corrupt infrastructure of political people who have infiltrated the US government up to now. After all the scandals of the past US history, that's saying a lot. These people do not intend to give up their power. They can get quite nasty about it. And they are all masters of dirty tricks.

Here are some facts:

1.) There is indeed a great deal of corruption around those who hold power. 
2.) Agreed, they don't want to give up their power and will fight back.
3.) Challenges to that power come in a number of forms:
    One is "I'm going to throw you out.  Nothing you can do about it."
    Second is, "I'm going to be the new leader of your power clique. Get on board or get out."  
    Third is, "Quit trying to fight, me.  I just want to join your system.  We will share the power."
    And fourth is "Quit trying to fight, me.  I just want to join your system.  You can call all the shots."

So, can you know that one of those approaches isn't the best description of his intentions?

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That's what it says at the top of the page.  Your point?  It's not like this thread has devolved into a medley of cat videos.  Yet.  

It is intriguing.  I've been fairly obsessed for about a year with thinking about details.  I find microbiology fascinating. I wouldn't be wise, however, to talk about details.  The schemers are

They see suave, debonair Frisco giving a philosophically deep money speech, or John Galt taking over a radio presentation and addressing the audience in the manner of a professor. If they don't see th

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This thread is certainly interesting. 

The pro-Trump crowd views Trump more like Howard Roark--with some warts that can be lived with.  

The anti-Trump crowd views him more like Peter Keating--maybe with a snarl.  

But nobody claims that Clinton is like Howard Roark. 

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Just now, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

However, if you look at insinuations and not arguments, you insinuate VERY STRONGLY against Trump.

That's true.  But for me, it is only the arguments that matter.  The insinuations will just follow along.  Of course, I have to explain that since no one here who supports Trump insinuates in his favor, right? :).

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1 minute ago, PDS said:

The pro-Trump crowd views Trump more like Howard Roark--with some warts that can be lived with.  

The anti-Trump crowd views him more like Peter Keating--maybe with a snarl.  

But nobody claims that Clinton is like Howard Roark

All very true.

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13 minutes ago, SteveWolfer said:

So, can you know that one of those approaches isn't the best description of his intentions?

Steve,

To be honest, I don't see any of the alternatives applying to Trump.

His thing is not power qua power, but instead, fixing problems.

He's going to judge and hire people based on merit and appropriateness to the situation, irrespective of where they come from. Notice that Mike Pence had endorsed Ted Cruz before and bashed Trump publicly. Pence was certainly not a Trump insider at the start of their relationship. But Trump hired him, so to speak. And hired him over strong insiders who were actively campaigning for the job.

When he comes across opponents so powerful he has to deal with them, he will do what it takes (within the law) to get them out of his way and go on to fix the problems. (btw - That's why he used to bribe politicians--and notice that all his bribes were within the law. :) )

That's how Trump rolls, not this in-group versus out-group but we are all hogs at the same trough mentality.

Michael

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3 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

To be honest, I don't see any of the alternatives applying to Trump.

I hope so.  There are some other alternatives - some good, some not so good.  I still think we are just going to have wait and see (which doesn't mean we don't act on our best guesses in the mean time). 

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3 minutes ago, SteveWolfer said:

I still think we are just going to have wait and see (which doesn't mean we don't act on our best guesses in the mean time).

Steve,

To be honest, I don't have to wait and see. I already know.

How do I know?

Trump is like me in most fundamentals. When I look at him, I see myself reflected--the best part of myself.

(I wonder how this last statement lands with true Trump-haters? :evil: )

Michael

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3 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Trump is like me in most fundamentals. When I look at him, I see myself reflected--the best part of myself.

(I wonder how this last statement lands with true Trump-haters?

Well, if you are right, then they will have to go off and lick their wounds and your statement about you and him won't matter. 

If it turns out that you are wrong, it will depend upon how they feel about you - not Trump.  If he turns out to be a bad guy, they will have been justified in their view of him, and if they like you, they will say, "He wasn't like you at all - you're a good guy."  If they don't like you.... well, then who gives a shit?

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13 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Steve,

To be honest, I don't have to wait and see. I already know.

How do I know?

Trump is like me in most fundamentals. When I look at him, I see myself reflected--the best part of myself.

(I wonder how this last statement lands with true Trump-haters? :evil: )

Michael

This does explain a lot. 

In making this reference, you are giving Trump way too much credit and yourself way too little. 

I wouldn't invest so much psychologically in a politician if I were you, MSK...

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2 hours ago, PDS said:

 

2 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Steve,

To be honest, I don't have to wait and see. I already know.

How do I know?

Trump is like me in most fundamentals. When I look at him, I see myself reflected--the best part of myself.

(I wonder how this last statement lands with true Trump-haters? :evil: )

Michael

This does explain a lot. 

David,

I'll go even further.

I have not heard Diamond and Silk put it in these terms, but I guarantee you they feel the same way.

When I kept talking about "Trump supporter" early on in this thread and people kept asking me for statistics and I kept saying they cut across all demographics, that's because there is no way poll-wise to quantify this resonance. When Trump's opponents say he "struck a nerve," they torture a metaphor a bit. Granted, there is the shared pain Trump articulates, but pain is not the fundament. That's just a problem to solve. Resonance is the root.

The real deal is that most Trump-supporting people I have observed see themselves reflected in Trump, they see best part of themselves in Trump coming right back at them. And they love it.

If you want to know why they seemed so immune to arguments early on, that's why. Agree or disagree, I can tell you that's why. I know because I am the same and I see it in them. In fact, I don't just see myself reflected in Trump. I see myself reflected in them, too.

I love these good hard-working people.

Michael

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2 hours ago, SteveWolfer said:

 

2 hours ago, PDS said:

In making this reference, you are giving Trump way too much credit and yourself way too little. 

I wouldn't invest so much psychologically in a politician if I were you, MSK...

That was my reaction as well.

Steve and Dave,

It's not the man.

It's the archetype.

Trump himself recognizes this when he says he's just the messenger.

One day months ago on TV, someone asked a Trump supporter what would make him stop supporting Trump. He said if Trump started acting like the establishment.

That's just another way of saying it. 

It's the archetype...

Michael

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8 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Steve and Dave,

It's not the man.

It's the archetype.

Trump himself recognizes this when he says he's just the messenger.

One day months ago on TV, someone asked a Trump supporter what would make him stop supporting Trump. He said if Trump started acting like the establishment.

That's just another way of saying it. 

It's the archetype...

Michael

Is picking Mike Pence sort of an establishment pick?  And isn't that the first and only thing Trump has done as a potential president?

No need to answer.

 

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1 hour ago, PDS said:

And isn't that the first and only thing Trump has done as a potential president?

David,

No.

Trump beat the shit out of 16 other seasoned candidates in a primary.

That was the first thing he did as a potential president.

:) 

As to "only," jeez... He's done plenty of other stuff. List of Supreme Court possibilities. Policy statements. Growing advisory staff, including military experts on foreign affairs. And so on. I heard he even held one hell of a nominating convention together with the RNC.

:)

Michael

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Art Laffer: Trump Should Win Easily

http://www.weeklystandard.com/art-laffer-trump-should-win-easily/article/2003371

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Art Laffer is a famous economist, one of the brains behind President Ronald Reagan's supply-side tax cuts in 1981. But he was also a political adviser to Reagan and other presidential candidates. Based on history rather than polls or demographics, he insists Donald Trump will win the presidential race—and win easily.


Probably should note, that Laffer is one of the people on Trump's economic team, and Laffer was with Reagan through his entire Presidency..
 

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20 minutes ago, KorbenDallas said:

Art Laffer: Trump Should Win Easily

http://www.weeklystandard.com/art-laffer-trump-should-win-easily/article/2003371


Probably should note, that Laffer is one of the people on Trump's economic team, and Laffer was with Reagan through his entire Presidency..
 

Reagan took Laffer's advice and ran up the biggest deficits in the history of the U.S.   St. Ronnie was delivering $1.75  of government for every $1.00 collected in taxes.  It turned out to be a losing strategy.   Strangely enough,  the only post Reagan president to balance the budget was Bill Clinton.  Odd.  Cutting taxes does not grow the economy  when the government is regulating it to death or providing  perverse incentives to the financial community to turn the stock and bond market into a legal casino.   Read  "The Big Short"  by Michael Lewis.  

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1 hour ago, BaalChatzaf said:

Reagan took Laffer's advice and ran up the biggest deficits in the history of the U.S.   St. Ronnie was delivering $1.75  of government for every $1.00 collected in taxes.  It turned out to be a losing strategy.   Strangely enough,  the only post Reagan president to balance the budget was Bill Clinton.  Odd.  Cutting taxes does not grow the economy  when the government is regulating it to death or providing  perverse incentives to the financial community to turn the stock and bond market into a legal casino.   Read  "The Big Short"  by Michael Lewis.  

Reagan economy:  UE down, GDP up, capital investment up, inflation down, per capita income up...  sounds good to me.  I've read a few economic books while in college.  Wasn't my favorite subject, but I did well.

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26 minutes ago, KorbenDallas said:

Reagan economy:  UE down, GDP up, capital investment up, inflation down, per capita income up...  sounds good to me.  I've read a few economic books while in college.  Wasn't my favorite subject, but I did well.

So how did we get into the mess we are in.  Is it not as I described?

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Trump on Russia with swagger:

Michael

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