SpaceX's Entrepreneurial Triumph!

[BaalChatzaf]

As for water, perhaps you should reacquaint yourself with the data and information from probes over the past decade that give very strong evidence of water in the regolith. See this photo, for example:

Oh, and pardon me but I’ve failed to conduct his exchange in the tone that you have set. So shit, crap, dagnabbit! There!

There was water on mars. Where is it now?

How does one make a profit from Mars? If there is an answer to that that does not involve a government subsidy, then perhaps private enterprisers will attempt to cash in.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Ed Hudgins]

Ba'al - See sentence above where I mention "very strong evidence of water in the regolith."

Also see comparison photos just below the sentence containing the word "regolith." NASA has a number of these. They were taken some years apart and the photo to the right shows what looks like a liquid or slurry flowing on the surface of Mars where no such activity was visible in the earlier photo on the left.

The polar caps also comtain large amounts of water. For example, see http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2007-030

As for profits, refer to the words in my post above where I say: "Mars indeed does not offer the commercial potential of the Moon, with Helium 3 for example. But the initial goal of those who want to go to Mars is not commercial. It is to explore and understand the Red Planet."

Ad Ares!

Ed

[BaalChatzaf]

As for profits, refer to the words in my post above where I say: "Mars indeed does not offer the commercial potential of the Moon, with Helium 3 for example. But the initial goal of those who want to go to Mars is not commercial. It is to explore and understand the Red Planet."

Ad Ares!

Ed

In short, Mars is a poor investment. Which will mean the government will have to steal the money for Dr. Zubin to get his jollies.

So Mars is both a shit hole and a money pit.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Ed Hudgins]

Ba’al – Ever hear of philanthropic, non-profit organizations? They raise money or work off of major donations or bequeaths from wealthy benefactors. The National Geographic Society is such an organization, which has sponsored exploration for a century and a quarter.

Also note that the Mount Wilson Observatory, where Hubble discovered the expansion of the universe, was funded by the Carnegie Foundation. The Mount Palomar Observatory, the largest in the world for some three decades, was funded by Rockefeller Foundation. And they never made a profit. (See my book.)

The new space entrepreneurs like Musk want to make money but also want to spend money in pursuit of what they consider great human achievements, like going to Mars.

So Mars is not a good, short-term investment to make a profit. It also is not made of toffee-flavored ice cream and thus would not make a good dessert. But Aristotle opens his Metaphysics with “All men, by nature, desire to know.” As a target of exploration and scientific investigation, Mars brings out he best of the human spirit.

So stop being such an old grumpy-stump curmudgeon and smile at what we humans can do!

[BaalChatzaf]

So Mars is not a good, short-term investment to make a profit. It also is not made of toffee-flavored ice cream and thus would not make a good dessert. But Aristotle opens his Metaphysics with “All men, by nature, desire to know.” As a target of exploration and scientific investigation, Mars brings out he best of the human spirit.

I want to know how to propel a space traveling vehicle with technology that does not do burn and coast and does not use a system that is no further advanced (in principle) than the Chinese rockets of the Tang Dynasty.

First things first. First get a decent propulsion system. The one we have is only good for trips to the moon and unmanned missions to the planets.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Selene]

Ba’al – Ever hear of philanthropic, non-profit organizations? They raise money or work off of major donations or bequeaths from wealthy benefactors. The National Geographic Society is such an organization, which has sponsored exploration for a century and a quarter.

Also note that the Mount Wilson Observatory, where Hubble discovered the expansion of the universe, was funded by the Carnegie Foundation. The Mount Palomar Observatory, the largest in the world for some three decades, was funded by Rockefeller Foundation. And they never made a profit. (See my book.)

The new space entrepreneurs like Musk want to make money but also want to spend money in pursuit of what they consider great human achievements, like going to Mars.

So Mars is not a good, short-term investment to make a profit. It also is not made of toffee-flavored ice cream and thus would not make a good dessert. But Aristotle opens his Metaphysics with “All men, by nature, desire to know.” As a target of exploration and scientific investigation, Mars brings out he best of the human spirit.

So stop being such an old grumpy-stump curmudgeon and smile at what we humans can do!

FYI:

Mars...the Butterscotch Planet...

"Dr. Renno found that dust storms on mars, like here on earth, build up an electric field, causing the massive jolts of lightning on the planet -- something that could affect space travel in the future.

"I predict this is going to be one of the major problems," Dr. Renno said.

Dr. Renno's latest discovery … water on mars! When the Phoenix Spacecraft landed, ice and water droplets were found.

"One of the landing struts, there's lots of mud splashed during the landing," Dr. Renno explained.

Dr. Renno found the water to be full of salt, comparable to the Dead Sea here on earth.

"The really important thing on Earth, we found bacteria that thrive in those conditions, so it means life could be thriving on Mars," Dr. Renno said.

As we discover more about the "butterscotch" planet, here's another question to test your space smarts: what or who is mars named after? The answer: the God of War.

Proving as much as we think we now know about mars, it's just the beginning.

Here's another cold hard fact about mars: in the winter, mars can get as cold as 191 degrees below zero. In the summer, the temperature on mars only reaches about 24 degrees below zero.

The American Astronomical Society, the American Meteorological Society, and the American Geophysical Union contributed to the information contained in the TV portion of this report.

http://ivanhoe.com/science/story/2010/01/663a.html

[Ed Hudgins]

Ba'al - Nothing wrong with chemical propulsion. It can get astronauts to Mars, whether you personally "approve" of it or not. This is especially true for two mission models:

1) Mars Direct. Zubrin's model would have a lander go to Mars in advance of astronauts and create out of the CO2 Martian atmosphere methane and oxygen for the return trip. That cuts the weight—and cost—of the manned spacecraft going to Mars way, way down. See Zubrin’s book for details.

2) Mars One. This mission design would not involve a return trip. Astronauts go to Mars to stay. See this link to Kurzweil’s site:

http://www.kurzweilai.net/mars-one-plans-to-establish-human-settlement-on-mars-in-2023?utm_source=KurzweilAI+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=7d8dd674fe-UA-946742-1&utm_medium=email

Something else for you to nay-say!

[BaalChatzaf]

2) Mars One. This mission design would not involve a return trip. Astronauts go to Mars to stay. See this link to Kurzweil’s site:

http://www.kurzweila...tm_medium=email

Something else for you to nay-say!

I am against suicide missions on principle.

Committing suicide by volunteering to live in a shit-hole for the brief remaining time of one's life is silly.

Better we should go to the Moon and learn how to use another planet. Those who go to the Moon can come back to earth without undue exposure to cosmic and solar radiation

Save Mars for when we have a propulsion system advanced beyond Chinese fireworks and Congreve rockets.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Brant Gaede]

Sending men to Mars and making them Martians is insane as an idea beyond a think piece. Write a novel about it; it'd be fiction one way or another. The moon could be another story if it results in a net increase in wealth.

Up to now it's all pyramid building and bread and circuses. I'm not talking about earth orbit, but going to another celestial body.

--Brant

the trick is to stop that life destroying asteroid or comet, which is only a problem in so far as something can be done about it

[anthony]

No mention here of Elon ("the Oak", Heb.) Musk being born a nice Jewish South African

boykie in Pretoria, where he attended the prestigious Pretoria Boys' High.

Canadian mother, SA engineer father, he left here at 17.

He apparently wanted to live in the US because "It is where great things are

possible."

We always export our quality products.

[Ed Hudgins]

Elon represents the spirit of America, the spirit of a country where "great things are

possible," a country that attracts the best from around the world. America's greatest export should be that spirit.

See "What Is an American?" my piece on my family's journal to this country.

[BaalChatzaf]

Elon represents the spirit of America, the spirit of a country where "great things are

possible," a country that attracts the best from around the world. America's greatest export should be that spirit.

See "What Is an American?"my piece on my family's journal to this country.

I believe that. One of these days we will have a decent propulsion system, not an elaboration of a Tang Dynasty fire cracker or a Congreve Rocket (of "the rocket's red glare" fame).

In the mean time I would like to see people living on the Moon, using the Dark Side for the greatest observatories ever and mining hydrogen 3.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[BaalChatzaf]

No mention here of Elon ("the Oak", Heb.) Musk being born a nice Jewish South African

boykie in Pretoria, where he attended the prestigious Pretoria Boys' High.

Canadian mother, SA engineer father, he left here at 17.

He apparently wanted to live in the US because "It is where great things are

possible."

We always export our quality products.

Elon ist ein Yiddische Yingele? Hast du in sein ganzen leb gesehen!?

A Jewish rocket man! Darn! Amazing. If one follows Heinlein's canon one would expect Space Man to be a midwest Protestant with the chin of a leader.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Ed Hudgins]

Thought you all would like information on the huge amount of underground water on Mars. Ready for a swim?

Ice sheet bigger than Texas, California found on Mars

And maybe you'd be interested in Buzz Aldrin's latest plans to go there:

Buzz Aldrin developing a 'master plan' to colonize Mars within 25 years

[anthony]

There goes the neighborhood. The ice sheet will melt not long after colonists arrive. What's the bet Anthropogenic Martian Warming is the future 'thing'? Another perfect world goes to hell. (Wonderful stuff Ed, thanks).