Howdy!

[Ned]

Just stumbled across this site a few weeks ago. Signed up then but held off my introduction until I could look through a few more of the past conversations.

I read through Atlas Shrugged while in high school, but its meaning was just lost on me then. I didn't want to believe in other people then, and I didn't want to believe in myself either, so you can see how I'd been antagonistic to the idea of any man being a heroic being. There's more to the biography, but suffice to say that I eventually figured out that the reason I didn't want to believe in others is because I didn't allow myself to believe in myself. Eventually, I followed that realization to along its logical course, re-read A.S. three years ago, and have been a student of Rand ever since. My first step sounds a bit wrongheaded looking back on it, but it sent me down this course of thought none the less.

Nothing much else to say that won't come out in conversation along the way, except that I don't share Rand's views of religion.

It's a pleasure to meet you all, and I look forward to the discussions.

Cheers!

Adam

[Selene]

Welcome to OL.

Where do you hail from?

Are you a worker for the oppressive state or a student?

I am interested in your statement on Rand and religion.

Adam

[Ned]

North Carolina.

I am employed by a small factory, so a percent of my time goes to the federal and local governments by proxy of my employment. I consider myself a student of a great number of things and study them whenever I get a moment to do so, but I am not enrolled in any formal education at the present if that's what you mean.

I'm glad it interests you.

Would you mind answering the same questions about yourself?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Adam,

Welcome aboard.

You sound friendly.

Michael

[Selene]

North Carolina.

I am employed by a small factory, so a percent of my time goes to the federal and local governments by proxy of my employment. I consider myself a student of a great number of things and study them whenever I get a moment to do so, but I am not enrolled in any formal education at the present if that's what you mean.

I'm glad it interests you.

Would you mind answering the same questions about yourself?

Ned:

New Jersey for the last three years, prior to that four years in Virginia in the civilized section of Newport News, right near Yorktown, in Gloucester. Prior to that a lifelong NY City boy. I am a mediator, divorce and family as a specialty. The religion issue interests me because I have been on both sides of it in my lifetime. There have been debates here as to Objectivism and religion. There are websites out there that are Christian Objectivist in nature. I have an open mind when it comes to this issue.

I attended NBI in the sixties and have been a life long proponent of Ayn's original ideas and completely opposed to the repressive orthodoxy of the Peikoff regime. I think that they have done significant damage to the objective approach to ideas which may have been fatal. I am, therefore, an open small "o"objectivist who is passionate about its application to politics, which is the second fatal mistake that was made by Ayn's withdrawal from the political battle in the late sixties when libertarianism was forming as a potentially significant force in American politics.

Again, welcome to OL.

[Ned]

Ned:

New Jersey for the last three years, prior to that four years in Virginia in the civilized section of Newport News, right near Yorktown, in Gloucester. Prior to that a lifelong NY City boy. I am a mediator, divorce and family as a specialty. The religion issue interests me because I have been on both sides of it in my lifetime. There have been debates here as to Objectivism and religion. There are websites out there that are Christian Objectivist in nature. I have an open mind when it comes to this issue.

I attended NBI in the sixties and have been a life long proponent of Ayn's original ideas and completely opposed to the repressive orthodoxy of the Peikoff regime. I think that they have done significant damage to the objective approach to ideas which may have been fatal. I am, therefore, an open small "o"objectivist who is passionate about its application to politics, which is the second fatal mistake that was made by Ayn's withdrawal from the political battle in the late sixties when libertarianism was forming as a potentially significant force in American politics.

Again, welcome to OL.

City life, eh? Never understood it. Too fast for me. I like living out here among the farmers. Easier going people, less stress.

As for religion, I would never identify myself as a "Christian Objectivist". I'm just both a Christian and someone who sees the value of Objectivist thought. The two aren't a unit, they're just parts of my mental whole. It doesn't bother me that people will think differently from me on the subject of religion, that difference of opinion is pretty insignificant to me. I get along with athiests better than I do with most Christians anyway.

I read Peikof's book last year. Seemed too mechanical and forced, much less natural than Rand's writings. Didn't give it much credit but it did make me skeptical to read anything else by anyone who claimed to be an objectivist.

[Ned]

Adam,

Welcome aboard.

You sound friendly.

Michael

Thanks, I try to be friendly. It's much easier than the alternatives.

[Xray]

Hi Adam (Ned),

Welcome to OL.

As for religion, I would never identify myself as a "Christian Objectivist". I'm just both a Christian and someone who sees the value of Objectivist thought. The two aren't a unit, they're just parts of my mental whole.

When you consider the premises the Christian religion and Objectivism are based on, the two systems are total opposites though. In fact one system contradicts the other so fundamtentally that they are incompatible.

For Objectism is an expicitly atheistic philosophy. Atheism is one of the pillars Objecitivism rests on. The gulf between Objectivism and any form of religous faith is so large and deep that it is unbridgeable.

Rand was clear as a bell in her rejection of religious faith as irrational, so much in fact that she even presented what she cannot know as if she knew it, for she said "no supernatural dimension exists".

For example, the Christian notion of a god "sacrficing" his son is so diamatetically opposed to the values Rand spent a lifetime advocating that imo she would turn in her grave at the idea of Christian faith being married to Objectivist thought.

Trying to reconcile the premises of Objectivism with the premises of the Christian faith (of any faith in transcendence actually) is as impossible as trying to reconcile the premises of Objectivism with the premises of Marxism.

Edited December 12, 2010 by Xray

[sbeaulieu]

Ned,

Welcome to OL. You'll find a good mix of thought processes here, as you've already noticed. Most discourse on this site is intriguing and friendly. Enjoy!

~ Shane

[Ned]

When you consider the premises the Christian religion and Objectivism are based on, the two systems are total opposites though. In fact one system contradicts the other so fundamtentally that they are incompatible.

For Objectism is an expicitly atheistic philosophy. Atheism is one of the pillars Objecitivism rests on. The gulf between Objectivism and any form of religous faith is so large and deep that it is unbridgeable.

Rand was clear as a bell in her rejection of religious faith as irrational, so much in fact that she even presented what she cannot know as if she knew it, for she said "no supernatural dimension exists".

For example, the Christian notion of a god "sacrficing" his son is so diamatetically opposed to the values Rand spent a lifetime advocating that imo she would turn in her grave at the idea of Christian faith being married to Objectivist thought.

Trying to reconcile the premises of Objectivism with the premises of the Christian faith (of any faith in transcendence actually) is as impossible as trying to reconcile the premises of Objectivism with the premises of Marxism.

I understand that Objectivism is an athiestic philosophy. Hence one of the reasons that I will readily label myself as a Christian, but not an objectivist. I don't share all the ideas, so I don't share the title.

Don't want to clog up the introduction page with a religious discussion though. I'm sure we'll have plenty of chances to discuss it in the proper way.

Although, I do like the idea of making Rand turn in her grave for some reason.